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What happened to First group's 'FTR' bendy busses?

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Eliottjames

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Does anyone know where the FTR Metro busses from Swansea ended up? Last I heard was in this article but I haven't been able to find anything else about them. The article mentions that one was destined for a museum in York. Any ideas where that might be?
 
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class387

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Some were used on FCC's shuttle between Luton Airport Parkway and the airport. Not sure what happened when Thameslink took over but I think there is still at least one.
 

2138Stafford

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Most (if not all ) of them were still at First Cymru's Llanelli depot when I passed about 2/3 weeks ago.
 

Teflon Lettuce

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Wonder if the sale fell through. Thanks for the update!
let's be honest... who'd want them? they have ONE more {yes really 1} than a normal wright solar/ eclipse/ etc and take TWICE as many staff to operate and use TWICE the amount of fuel! People complain about the NBfL being a vanity project and call them Borismasters... perhaps the ftr's can also be seen in the same light and be called "Moirmasters"
 

TheGrandWazoo

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let's be honest... who'd want them? they have ONE more {yes really 1} than a normal wright solar/ eclipse/ etc and take TWICE as many staff to operate and use TWICE the amount of fuel! People complain about the NBfL being a vanity project and call them Borismasters... perhaps the ftr's can also be seen in the same light and be called "Moirmasters"

Can’t argue with that - twice the cost for the same capacity! Quite a few Yorkshire ones have already been scrapped which is all they’re good for.
 

Harpers Tate

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Some bright spark thought that if they made them bendy, people would think they were trams and herd onto them out of their cars like they do with trams. At least, that was the "excuse" for them in Leeds.....
 

Bletchleyite

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Some bright spark thought that if they made them bendy, people would think they were trams and herd onto them out of their cars like they do with trams. At least, that was the "excuse" for them in Leeds.....

Unfortunately the passengers realised that putting a fancy body on a bus doesn't stop it being a bus, with all the issues you get on regional buses in the UK that make them relatively unattractive.
 

Eliottjames

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Some bright spark thought that if they made them bendy, people would think they were trams and herd onto them out of their cars like they do with trams. At least, that was the "excuse" for them in Leeds.....
They seem to be thinking along the same lines in Birmingham at the moment too. Can’t see it working any better here either...
 

westcoaster

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A quick Google search and found this article
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/graveyard-swanseas-sorry-looking-fleet-14772222

As The Kingsway undergoes another face-lift in a bid to regenerate the area, the route originally introduced to accommodate the city’s bendy buses looks set to change again.

After costing £10 million and causing huge disruption in the city centre, the infamous fleet of purple buses were scrapped just six years after being brought into the city.

Local businesses endured two years of disruption at the time, when a one-way system was introduced to The Kingsway, Orchard Street and Alexandra Road.

But what happened to the bendy buses that arrived to such a fanfare but left with little more than a whimper?

Well, they haven’t gone too far.

A number of buses can be found in Llanelli ’s First Cymru depot, set behind a row houses on Ralph Street, with many of them in a state of disrepair and even vandalised with smashed windows.
 
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carlberry

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The new bendy buses in Belfast look suspiciously like FTRs
The look of the FTRs wasnt really the issue (other than the consequential space problem around the driver). The internal design meant that they had very few seats (for the length) and couldn't be operated without a conductor (or off bus ticketing which was the original idea).
 

Bantamzen

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The look of the FTRs wasnt really the issue (other than the consequential space problem around the driver). The internal design meant that they had very few seats (for the length) and couldn't be operated without a conductor (or off bus ticketing which was the original idea).

The interior design was awful on reflection, & particularly unsuitable when on the 72 Leeds-Bradford route with only 30-some seats but a capacity of around 100 IIRC? I always thought if anything they might have made a better airport shuttle for the two cities, with plenty of room for suitcases.
 

Robertj21a

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let's be honest... who'd want them? they have ONE more {yes really 1} than a normal wright solar/ eclipse/ etc and take TWICE as many staff to operate and use TWICE the amount of fuel! People complain about the NBfL being a vanity project and call them Borismasters... perhaps the ftr's can also be seen in the same light and be called "Moirmasters"

Very true. An absolute waste of money.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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The interior design was awful on reflection, & particularly unsuitable when on the 72 Leeds-Bradford route with only 30-some seats but a capacity of around 100 IIRC? I always thought if anything they might have made a better airport shuttle for the two cities, with plenty of room for suitcases.

Think they were 42 seaters - the same as an Eclipse but much more expensive to buy, run and crew.

Conventional articulated vehicles would’ve been better and can’t help thinking that they should have sent from around the First empire to Swansea (if only to justify the changes made there to accommodate FTR).
 

Bantamzen

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Think they were 42 seaters - the same as an Eclipse but much more expensive to buy, run and crew.

Conventional articulated vehicles would’ve been better and can’t help thinking that they should have sent from around the First empire to Swansea (if only to justify the changes made there to accommodate FTR).

Ah, that seating figure could be right. For some reason I had 35 in my head but I'm probably wrong.
 

carlberry

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Ah, that seating figure could be right. For some reason I had 35 in my head but I'm probably wrong.
Bus lists on the web show the Yorkshire ones as 37 seaters (only just above a long Merc minibus!) when delivered.
 

Bantamzen

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Bus lists on the web show the Yorkshire ones as 37 seaters (only just above a long Merc minibus!) when delivered.

Oh so not that far off after all. :D

They were really badly designed though, some of the seats were at odd angles like a booth in an American diner. Really not suitable for what was a very busy route between two cities. And on at least one occasion a conductor, sorry host was badly hurt when one had to screech to a halt leaving Bradford because there were really not enough hand grabs.
 

Teflon Lettuce

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The look of the FTRs wasnt really the issue (other than the consequential space problem around the driver). The internal design meant that they had very few seats (for the length) and couldn't be operated without a conductor (or off bus ticketing which was the original idea).
actually the first ones in York had on bus off bus ticketing.. go figure!
 

carlberry

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actually the first ones in York had on bus off bus ticketing.. go figure!
Yes, that's it! I think people got so confused by the on bus machines that they brought in 'hosts' to work the machines for them which everybody else called conductors. Did they eventually give up with the machines and just give the hosts portable ticket machines?
 

Teflon Lettuce

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Yes, that's it! I think people got so confused by the on bus machines that they brought in 'hosts' to work the machines for them which everybody else called conductors. Did they eventually give up with the machines and just give the hosts portable ticket machines?
I don't know about York or Leeds... but in Swansea the "hosts" had portable ticket machines
 

Whiteway215

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And didn't they have 'pilots' instead of drivers?! I expect they all work for Ryanair now!
 

ChrisPJ

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Those things were absolute junk. The dwell times when newly launched in York were appalling, if you did things in the wrong order the ticket machine spat out all your coins and you had to start again.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Bus lists on the web show the Yorkshire ones as 37 seaters (only just above a long Merc minibus!) when delivered.

Oh so not that far off after all. :D

I stand corrected - clearly getting mixed up somewhere.

So the same capacity as a standard First Group Dart SLF, and 4 more than the Merc 811s that SWT used to run, as Carl said!
 

Bristol LH

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First Cymru's 10 StreetCars remain in storage - two are at Maesteg depot and the other eight at Llanelli.
 

alangla

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I had a ride on one in Las Vegas last year - they operate the limited stop SDX service from the transit terminal at the south end of the strip to a terminus in downtown. Ticketing is all off-bus and the crew is a driver and usually a security guard.
In contrast, the Deuce service that plods up and down the strip is an Enviro 500 with just a driver. Ticketing is off bus on these too IIRC
 

61653 HTAFC

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Given the low number of seats/high standing capacity set-up they had, neither of the routes they were used on in West Yorkshire were really appropriate. The 4/4a was marginally more suited, being a cross-city route with few end-to-end passengers... but they were then moved (and joined by the York vehicles) to the 72 Leeds-Bradford service with great fanfare. Whilst this route also isn't really ideal for end-to-end use at least in the daytime (the X6 being faster and the train faster still) the marketing and branding seemed to suggest it was trying to capture that market (another example of First competing with themselves) which inevitably led to disappointed passengers who promptly returned to their cars.

A more appropriate use would've been as a park&ride shuttle, which surprisingly wasn't how they were used in York despite that city having invested heavily in P&R. Particularly if combined with a dedicated busway such as the Manchester Road one in Bradford. A park and ride from Odsal or the M606 might've worked but for three major issues:
Firstly, that busway is unidirectional (albeit different directions at different points) so wouldn't have been so effective at beating congestion. One option would have been to provide stops on both sides of the busway and operate it in the peak-flow direction, but that would require land-take... and then how do you handle the changeover between the peaks?
Secondly, AIUI the ftr "bodykit" prevents fitment of guidewheels, and I'm not certain the busway is even compatible with articulated buses.
Thirdly, as Bradford doesn't quite have the demand for an all-day, high-capacity park-and-ride, it'd still be a solution looking for a problem.

Like so many things with the big bus companies (FirstGroup especially and particularly under ML) the ftr was "all mouth and no trousers".

Leeds needs a genuine lightrail/tram/metro system (possibly including a Bradford line), not a bus with a fancy uniform... and it needed it 20 years ago when Manchester and Sheffield got theirs.
 
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