What if I barge through gates while holding a valid ticket?

[jupiter]

There have been a few times when travelling that I’ve had a valid ticket flag up «seek assistance» and there hasn’t been anyone around to help. This may be caused by me purchasing with a (held) senior railcard. The situation gets worse when I travel with an old friend who has a pass that won’t open the barriers anyway, he needs to be let through.

On a recent trip to Cornwall we were both holding valid tickets to travel but neither of us could operate the barriers to enter the station. What’s the situation here? Barge through and catch the train or be polite and wait for whoever should be on the gates to return from whatever they are doing? I’d be a bit miffed if I missed an hourly train (or worse) through being unnecessarily polite and trying to follow the rules.

 

[kacper]

Bye law offence but realistically if no one is around to open the gate you won't have any problems

 

[LCC106]

Are the gates not supposed to be left open if an operator is going to be away from them for a significant amount of time?

 

[NSE]

I’ve had that and I’ve jumped them (I see you have a senior railcard so that may not be an option for you, I appreciate!). My logic being I’ve looked around, tried to find assistance (called out hello etc), all very politely, and if I can’t get through with a perfectly valid ticket, I’m not going to miss my train. I’ve always been careful to jump them and not damage them, my logic being pushing my way through might break the gate through force. I’m able to safely jump it, so I can.

That said, I wouldn’t jump it if it was a high frequency route like the tube, but if it’s half hour wait or I have a connection then I’ll do it.

Technically it’s against the rules, but you’re not going to get in trouble for it.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Some are permanently remote control (for example, the newish gates exiting Gatwick Airport to the west).

I seem to recall a station (Exeter Central?) which had a secondary exit (which was pretty much as far away from the main entrance as it was possible to be) where the operator was insisting (to whoever was at the other end of tge intercom) that the passenger come to them to be let out.

 

[stadler]

I have forced open the wide gateline dozens of times when my ticket has not worked and there are no staff around.

I find those Steatite printers that Guards use often fail to properly encode the mag stripe and as a result those tickets often do not work the barriers. But occasionally even ones bought from ticket offices or ticket machines fail to work.

There is supposed to be a staff member standing by the gateline if it is closed but often (especially at quieter times) they seem to go off in to their office and just leave the gateline unattended but still closed. The worst for this is smaller London Underground stations and smaller National Rail stations in the London area.

I see no issue with forcing the barriers open if you have a valid ticket. If you just put a bit of force on it then you can easily push it open. I have never had an issue doing this and i doubt that staff would care about someone in these situations who has a legitimate reason to force it open.

 

[duffield]

It's a criminal offence (another one of the "strict liability" ones, I believe), so the safe option is to do something like film the situation and make a complaint, with the evidence to back it up, then wait for staff, missing your train if necessary, and also claim delay repay.

If enough people complain, the issue of barriers incorrectly being left closed with no staff in attendance or available remotely might actually get addressed.

 

[mrcheek]

technically an offence, but if youve done all you can to get attention, or find a member of staff, then nobody can blame you. I have had to do this a few times to avoid missing a train

 

[swt_passenger]

Are the gates not supposed to be left open if an operator is going to be away from them for a significant amount of time?

Not if they’re remotely supervised, as at some secondary entrances/exits. There isn’t actually a requirement for staff to be physically at the gateline, the requirement is for continuous supervision, that may mean CCTV.

However if it’s the only gateline for the whole station it’s highly likely that’s where they’ll all be based anyway.

 

[JonathanH]

Bye law offence but realistically if no one is around to open the gate you won't have any problems

All gatelines are covered by CCTV, so in theory any use of the gates other than they are intended could be logged for further investigation.

I see no issue with forcing the barriers open if you have a valid ticket. If you just put a bit of force on it then you can easily push it open.

There are reasons why a passenger with a valid ticket may wish to avoid their ticket being checked or swallowed, for instance inappropriate reuse of the ticket, so repeated misuse of the barriers is something that could be monitored.

All that said, if first putting the ticket through the barriers, then pressing the help point, doesnt open the gates or get a response, then it seems the only way forward is to force the issue by misusing the gates.

 

[Jamiescott1]

I forced open gates at Paddington when no one was around to get to the bike racks at platform 10/11.
BTP saw me and stopped me, took my details and told me that it's criminal damage. How else was I meant to get my bike ?

 

[JonathanH]

I forced open gates at Paddington when no one was around to get to the bike racks at platform 10/11.
BTP saw me and stopped me, took my details and told me that it's criminal damage. How else was I meant to get my bike ?

There are essentially four entry points to the platform 10-14 area at Paddington. Were all of them unstaffed and closed? I think there can be instances where the end-on access to platform 10/11 is closed, but access is intended via the sideways facing gates at the end of platform 11.

What did the BTP suggest when they told you it was criminal damage?

 

[Watershed]

I forced open gates at Paddington when no one was around to get to the bike racks at platform 10/11.
BTP saw me and stopped me, took my details and told me that it's criminal damage. How else was I meant to get my bike ?

It's not criminal damage as the barriers are designed to open when pushed. Damage would only occur if you used excessive amounts of force (e.g. kicking it open).

The BTP would have been correct that you arguably committed an offence under the Byelaws, but it is frankly ridiculous to take your details for that.

 

[kacper]

All gatelines are covered by CCTV, so in theory any use of the gates other than they are intended could be logged for further investigation.

If someone repeatedly forced their way through without attempt of inserting a ticket then yes that would be investigated. But in a more realistic situation, if CCTV shows someone attempting to use the gate as intended, and it not functioning they would probably not investigate anything and focus more on staffing said gateline

 

[Snow1964]

It is bye law offence (see section 9.2) to pass through the barrier, not in the correct manner, except with permission from an authorised person.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/4202/railway-byelaws.pdf

It doesn't actually define what the correct manner is, but presumably going through partly open gates (even if you pushed them) is more correct than jumping over them (which is clearly not correct manner).

It also does not say how you can find out if a person who lets you through (if it is remote, and can't see their uniform etc) is actually authorised. So going through a remotely opened barrier could still get you in trouble.

If you did use a help point, no one answered, then as written not supposed to enter or leave, cue discussion on false imprisonment

 

[thomasheywood]

It's a criminal offence (another one of the "strict liability" ones, I believe), so the safe option is to do something like film the situation and make a complaint, with the evidence to back it up, then wait for staff, missing your train if necessary, and also claim delay repay.

If enough people complain, the issue of barriers incorrectly being left closed with no staff in attendance or available remotely might actually get addressed.

Who on earth is going to miss their train just because there’s no one around to open the barriers?

 

[duffield]

Who on earth is going to miss their train just because there’s no one around to open the barriers?

Someone who doesn't want to risk committing a criminal offence, and getting stopped by the BTP, as per above? Specifically, me. Your appetite for risk and confrontation is different to mine. That's fine.

 

[Sonic1234]

Wonder what would have happened if you asked the BTP to open the gates?

I've always taken the view that if someone is around to catch you, there is someone around to open the gates. You're not a criminal if you don't get caught!

A long time ago, before I knew there were railway byelaws, I had to force a gate open and I wrote to GTR customer services to tell them. Maybe not the best idea in hindsight, although they didn't prosecute (or even suggest it) and I think I got £10 "for the inconvenience".

 

[cool110]

There is a slight quirk in the system

• All of the byelaw offences have the same maximum fine (£1000)
• The gates will open if the fire alarm is activated
• One of those can be done more discreetly than the other
• One of those will cause knock-on effects for the TOCs

 

[Sonic1234]

The gates will open if the fire alarm is activated

Or you press the emergency release on the control unit for the gates - which if you are trapped inside a station you should do.

And like with all railway offences, there is the issue of identifying the person beyond all reasonable doubt, especially if staffing is so lean the gates are abandoned. "That guy, who got his ticket rejected, waited for a few minutes, waved a few times across the barriers, pressed the fire alarm, ran out the station and is now half a mile down the street - who is he? He owes us £1000!!!"

 

[johncrossley]

This is horrifying! I think I'm done with British trains. The risk of gates not working is too high. I didn't realise the railway is so evil that they want to give passengers criminal records because of a fault with their own technology.

 

[sh24]

This is horrifying! I think I'm done with British trains. The risk of gates not working is too high. I didn't realise the railway is so evil that they want to give passengers criminal records because of a fault with their own technology.

I take somewhere between 8 and 40 trains a week, most weeks of the year. I've never, ever had to barge a barrier. So, I think you might be over-reacting a little bit.

 

[SuspectUsual]

This is horrifying! I think I'm done with British trains. The risk of gates not working is too high. I didn't realise the railway is so evil that they want to give passengers criminal records because of a fault with their own technology.

Really?! How often do you experience hates failing to open when you present a valid ticket?

 

[johncrossley]

Really?! How often do you experience hates failing to open when you present a valid ticket?

Not happened yet, but look at the evidence presented by those earlier in the thread. It has happened plenty of times. If it can happen to them it can happen to anyone. Criminal offence have been mentioned several times in this short thread already.

 

[duffield]

Not happened yet, but look at the evidence presented by those earlier in the thread. It has happened plenty of times. If it can happen to them it can happen to anyone. Criminal offence have been mentioned several times in this short thread already.

But it's not just the gate failing to open, you also have to have the situation where there are absolutely no staff visible anywhere, and no remote gate monitoring; in that case the gates will usually be left open anyhow. We are talking about a pretty rare combination of events.

 

[johncrossley]

But it's not just the gate failing to open, you also have to have the situation where there are absolutely no staff visible anywhere, and no remote gate monitoring; in that case the gates will usually be left open anyhow. We are talking about a pretty rare combination of events.

The point is there shouldn't be a criminal record for it. That is beyond outrageous.

 

[sheff1]

It is bye law offence (see section 9.2) to pass through the barrier, not in the correct manner, except with permission from an authorised person.

It doesn't actually define what the correct manner is, but presumably going through partly open gates (even if you pushed them) is more correct than jumping over them (which is clearly not correct manner).

Inserting or scanning a valid ticket and then proceeding forward through a gate which you have to encourage to open beacuse it is 'a bit stiff' seems correct enough to me. As you say jumping over them is clearly not the correct manner.

Really?! How often do you experience hates failing to open when you present a valid ticket?

Regularly. I can safely say the gate never opened when I presented a valid ticket at Nottingham. Valid tickets have failed to open the gates at mutiple stations (far too many to list, even if I could remember them all) - I described such an incident at Perth on here recently.

 

[AbsoluteBlock]

Really?! How often do you experience hates failing to open when you present a valid ticket?

I'm not the person you're responding to, but for me: always. That's because the Aztec-codes used on Interrail/Eurail passes are still not accepted by the scanners at Thameslink and Elizabeth Line stations, as well as a good number of stations outside London. Luckily, I've never been a position where there haven't been any staff to open the gates manually.

 

[duffield]

The point is there shouldn't be a criminal record for it. That is beyond outrageous.

It's only theoretical really. In practice the chances of that are near zero. As I've suggested, personally I wouldn't push through the barriers because I have zero appetite for any potential confrontation but that's due to anxiety.

If it's quite clear (e.g. from CCTV) that you tried to operate the barrier, then looked around for staff, maybe waited a minute or two to see if anyone turned up, and only then gone through, and you can show a valid ticket if you are subsequently stopped, in practice nothing will result. I just find the thought of this situation too stressful to deal with so I'd rather wait until someone did turn up.

 

[Sonic1234]

How often do you experience hates failing to open when you present a valid ticket?

Approx. 100%. I use Advance tickets on GTR (they block them for "manual checks").