What if Preston bus is sold and goes bust?

[robertclark125]

Let's imagine Stagecoach are forced to divest Preston Bus, and it doesn't go to a major group, but instead goes to a small buy in team, like what happened at Glenvale Transport. The competition commission places a 3 year ban on Stagecoach registering any Preston Bus route, but PB is free to run over Stagecoach routes.

During that 3 year period, Preston Bus runs into serious financial trouble, and actually goes bust. Buses are off the road, company ceases trading. what then? Can Stagecoach bid for it, or register over some of the routes? Be an intersting question, because PB did state that new government fuel tax levels could've forced it out of business.

 

[mbonwick]

It's highly unlikely IMHO that SC will be told to divest PB. At the "public" [read industry] consulation, only 1 objection was raised from Blue Bus who took over 2 contracted services from Stagecoach and have since seen a huge fall in usage due to unreliable/dirty buses.

If PB were to go bust as you suggest, I think SC would have to go back to the Competition Comission and ask for the restriction to be recinded.

 

[robertclark125]

Well here's another scenario. Let's imagine PB is divested, and a local firm, say in Merseyside buys it. For arguements sake, let's imagine Cumfybus buys it. Arriva then registers all over Cumfybus's route network in Southport and to Bootle, and Cumfybus collapses. Would aother firm be allowed to compete against the parent firm on its own routes, such as the example I gave above, forcing its collapse?

 

[mbonwick]

I don't see why not...

 

[robertclark125]

Well here's another scenario. PB is sold and the new owners can't afford to buy new buses, so the go to Stagecoach, and ask to lease some buses from them. Stagecoach agree, on the condition they don't compete with Stagecoach. Interesting thoguht eh? After all, Stagecoach Fife do lease buses to Moffat and williamson, and they both bid for school contracts, though their local services don't compete with each other.

 

[mbonwick]

That's not gonna happen. Period.

Stagecoach wouldn't lease buses - round this area, we just don't have the spares.

Just wait and see what happens, the final report is no more that 2 weeks away.

 

[Nonsense]

No idea what's going with Preston Bus, but I did pass a double decker on the M6 this morning carrying the PB colours but Stagecoach branding.

 

[mbonwick]

We are still waiting for the Competition Comission's final report. Stagecoach can do nothing with Preston Bus for the moment.
The bus you saw on the M6 was probably on its way back from a school/college working.

 

[robertclark125]

I await the CC clarification on some points, but it appears that Stagecoach will be free to compete with the new owners, and interestingly, would also be able to lower fares to a marginal level. Certainly the CC have made no announcement on restrictions.

Here's a thought, which I've also put to the CC. If it's sold, and the new owners, say are CumfyBus, and Arriva then competes with Cumfybus on their Merseyside network, putting them out of business, and that drags PB as well, what then?

Incidentally, if it isn't sold to a big group, do you think PB can survive once sold?

 

[KendalKing]

What i would like to know, is what happens if nobody buys Preston Bus.

 

[jonesy3001]

What i would like to know, is what happens if nobody buys Preston Bus.

Then it`s probably bye bye preston bus and all there buses taken back to there dealers.

 

[mbonwick]

The CC report states that if no-one is prepared to buy PB at a reasonable price, SC must make the deal more attractive.

 

[robertclark125]

And what if no one still wants to take it on?

 

[KendalKing]

The CC report states that if no-one is prepared to buy PB at a reasonable price, SC must make the deal more attractive.

The only way that SC can make PB more attractive, is being replacing all PB buses that are over 10-years old with they own newer buses.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And what if no one still wants to take it on?

Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[robertclark125]

Right, lets imagine Preston Bus is sold, and another operator comes in and competes with Preston Bus, and 6 months - a year later, Stagecoach buys that other operator. What then happens? Will Stagecoach be allowed to keep it? If it does, will it run parallel operations still, will it retain two depots?

 

[djw1981]

It could be referred to the competition commission who will rule.

 

[Lampshade]

The problem there is SC are being forced to sell Preston Bus to a company capable of competing with it. My money's on Go-Ahead personally.

 

[KendalKing]

Stagecoach was instructed to sell Preston Bus by Competition Commission, to a company which is capable of competing with it!, which they are apealling against!!

Has we all already know Nat Ex is in serious financial difficults, with Arriva, First, and Go-Ahead all saying that they are NOT interested in Preston Bus.

This then leaves companies like Shearings, who did once in the 1980's, operate buses in the Bolton area, lately becoming Timeline, before being sold to First in the 1990's.

When you consider the average age of the Preston Bus fleet, this will put-off potential buyers, after all who wants to operate A & E reg'd Olympians, F & G reg'd Lynxs or Metroriders. All of which were withdrawn by Stagecoach and would have to be reinstated when Preston Bus is finally sold.

 

[mbonwick]

KendalKing is spot on.
None of the big operators want to get involved, mainly because of the fleet age and the fact that they'd be on someone else's territory.

The economic downturn has put of many smaller operators; their current aim is to upgrade their own fleets/stay in business.

Finally, by ordering the divestiture the Competition Commission is effectively restoring a failed monopoly operator, which is rather perverse.
I sincerely hope the Appeals Tribuneral rule with Stagecoach, as that's the best solution for everyone.

 

[Lampshade]

How about Transdev? They're pretty big in East Lancashire, this is a good opportunity to expand. However at the end of the day common sense should really prevail.

 

[mbonwick]

Transdev are in trouble. Their East Lancs operations are getting weaker, and they've come out and said that they're not interested - Preston is too disjointed from their other operations.

 

[starrymarkb]

Would stagecoach be able to de register the PB routes claiming no-one was interested, that would wake the regulators up

 

[KendalKing]

Would stagecoach be able to de register the PB routes claiming no-one was interested, that would wake the regulators up

As the bus services in Preston, are currently operated under two separate operators licences, Ribble (PC0000043) & Preston Bus (PC0001777). I don't see the point of Stagecoach de-regstering any of the routes.

The Preston Bus operator licence, would just get transfered to the new owner, if one can be found!

As already been said on this Thread, if no one buys Preston Bus. Then the company would be closed down, with a severe reduction in the level of service currently being provided by Stagecoach. Unless the Office of fair Trading & Competition Commission, allows Stagecoach to take-over completely.

 

[robertclark125]

And this leads to another question. If no one buys PB, does this prove Stagecoach right, and could it have implications for the future?

 

[Lampshade]

I'm surprised Lancashire County Council/Preston City Council hasn't shown any interest, or aren't the councils allowed to run them anymore?

 

[mbonwick]

By an act of Parliament, the state could no longer own bus companies. This included councils.
From it's formation in 1909 to the management buy-out in 1993, Preston Bus was owned by the council. From 1993 to 2009 it was owned by it's employees, which contributed to its downfall.


Robert - if no one is interested in Preston Bus, if proves Stagecoach were right all along in my eyes.

 

[johnluke]

having talked to a councillor in preston he told me that staff are already looking at options one of which is backed by preston city council

 

[mbonwick]

If the CATribuneral agree that Stagecoach were rather harshly treated, Preston Bus will be sold on a more commercial basis than the deal that's currently being negotiated.

 

[johnluke]

By an act of Parliament, the state could no longer own bus companies. This included councils.
From it's formation in 1909 to the management buy-out in 1993, Preston Bus was owned by the council. From 1993 to 2009 it was owned by it's employees, which contributed to its downfall.


Robert - if no one is interested in Preston Bus, if proves Stagecoach were right all along in my eyes.

i might be wrong but councils cannot run bus companies ,but are allowed to have shares like 100% and operate as a private company at arms length just like the existing ones,it would be good if lancashire county council/preston council stepped in and took the shareholding from stagecoach

 

[Tom B]

Councils are allowed to hold all the shares as johnluke says. Lothian operate this way. I don't think it's any co-incidence that (arguably, certainly IMO) the country's best operator is publicly owned...