What if Prince's Street station hadn't closed?

[snakeeyes]

Given that Edinburgh Waverley currently having platforms extended and new ones built, if the old Princess Street station had been retained what difference would this have made?

How would services be connected?

 

[PaulLothian]

I feel that the short answer would be that Princes Street Station (the street is named for two Princes) would always have been a candidate for closure once its local services disappeared, generally replaced by much more frequent (if slower) buses.

It was no doubt an interesting station, and I have always slightly regretted that it was mostly demolished the year before I moved to Edinburgh. The point of linking services from the south-west into Waverley was to create connectivity at Haymarket and Waverley, as well as cutting station running costs.

 

[47271]

I'm glad of snakeeyes' post because it gave me a few minutes of Christmas Day fun thinking about how this would work now if Princes Street had survived!

All it would do is support the ex-Caledonian routes running south and west of Slateford. So WCML services (Scotrail via Carstairs, VTWC, Transpennine and the Edinburgh section of the sleeper) and the Shotts line. Hopeless for me, for example, arriving from Inverness on Scotrail and wanting to head on to Manchester on TPE.

Arguably it could have found itself electrified long before Waverley and as an extenstion of the West Coast scheme in the early 70s.

Its main benefit today would be to take traffic out of the Haymarket tunnels and junctions, but as an interchange station, sadly useless and we're probably better off without it.

 

[yorksrob]

Would a subway and travellator arrangement to either Waverley or Haymarket have been practical, I wonder ?

 

[PaulLothian]

I have often thought that a travelator along Princes Street would be a good idea, but not relating to station connections!

 

[QueensCurve]

With Edinburgh Waverley currently having platform's extended and new one's built, what and how if Princess Street had been retained what difference would this of made?
How would services connected?

In my view closing Princes Street was one of the more sensible city station closures.

Princess street really only had access to the Former Caledonian Railway routes. Waverley amply serves all.

 

[daikilo]

With Edinburgh Waverley currently having platform's extended and new one's built, what and how if Princess Street had been retained what difference would this of made?
How would services connected?

The Caledonian Princes Street station was a terminus with no easy possibility of connection to Waverley (the NBR/LNER tracks are much lower and in tunnel). At its hey-day, serviices were both local and longer distance, but with consolidation it made sense to redirect services to Haymarket/Waverley or simply abandon them to buses.

It is difficult to imagine how the station could have removed any need to enhance Waverley today, unless the interim benefits of colocation over the last 50-ish years had never occured.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Am I right in thinking the Caledonian Hotel is the former station, or rather what is left of it? ( Presumably, from the name, it was a hotel built above the station as a railway hotel? )

 

[AngusH]

At best i suppose a horribly long travelator could connect the sites. But it is maybe 3/4 of a mile.
A shuttle bus is probably the only answer

Essentially you get something like Glasgow Queen Street/Central, which is quite inconvenient to this day.

(Which is if the map is to be believed are actually closer together? Can that be right?)

 

[AngusH]

Yes, the hotel is most of original building. It still has lots of station like bits.

 

[InOban]

Am I right in thinking the Caledonian Hotel is the former station, or rather what is left of it? ( Presumably, from the name, it was a hotel built above the station as a railway hotel? )

Yes. Last time I looked, the hotel had expanded into the station below, with facilities like the spa etc. The tracks became the Western Approach Road.

 

[InOban]

It's churlish on Christmas day to point out that Princes doesn't have an apostrophe. It was named after George III's two sons.

 

[snakeeyes]

Am I right in thinking the Caledonian Hotel is the former station, or rather what is left of it? ( Presumably, from the name, it was a hotel built above the station as a railway hotel? )

This is the Caledonian hotel a couple of days ago.

 

[snakeeyes]

This is the Caledonian hotel a couple of days ago.

The station was behind the hotel

 

[InOban]

I was about 11 the only time I can remember using the station for the early, and I mean early, train to Oban. I thought that the hotel was over at least part of the concourse? Certainly the platforms were out in the air, we're in the days of steam.

 

[47271]

Yes, the old station site is behind the Waldorf hotel as it is now, universally known locally as the Caledonian. It's worth having a stroll around and beyond the hotel. A lot of it has been overbuilt with office blocks but a large proportion of the road network between Lothian Road and Gorgie runs on or over recognisable railway routes and bridges. In that sense Princes Street station would be remarkably easy to reinstate.

 

[AngusH]

If the track arrangements had been different I wonder if a Princes Street Station <-> Glasgow Queen Street direct shuttle would have been successful at keeping the station open.
(Glasgow bound passengers at Waverley using the route to Glasgow central)

 

[snakeeyes]

If the track arrangements had been different I wonder if a Princes Street Station <-> Glasgow Queen Street direct shuttle would have been successful at keeping the station open.
(Glasgow bound passengers at Waverley using the route to Glasgow central)

Would it of been possible to link Waverley and Prince's Street by rail?

 

[InOban]

In a word, no. The Haymarket tunnels run at some depth beneath the site of Princes St station. To the West, there was a link allowing trains from Princes Street to reach the tracks climbing away from Haymarket (that's how my Oban train ran) and of course the present trains towards Midcalder Jctn use the link which climbs up join the tracks from Princes Street.

 

[47271]

Would it of been possible to link Waverley and Prince's Street by rail?

The only way to do this would be by creating a Princes Street Low Level in the Haymarket Tunnels, the Caledonian routes sat and terminated at road level whereas the NB ran, and still runs, in and out of Waverley well below and through the city. Another reason to do away with the station sadly.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

All very interesting thank you everyone... I'll have to have a nose around the area next time I'm in Edinburgh for any length of time.

 

[edwin_m]

If the track arrangements had been different I wonder if a Princes Street Station <-> Glasgow Queen Street direct shuttle would have been successful at keeping the station open.
(Glasgow bound passengers at Waverley using the route to Glasgow central)

There was a connection from Princes Street towards Glasgow, joining the line from Haymarket near Murrayfield. However I can't see there was any point in keeping the station open given the only way of getting out to the east was a trip round the South Suburban.

 

[PaulLothian]

There was a connection from Princes Street towards Glasgow, joining the line from Haymarket near Murrayfield. However I can't see there was any point in keeping the station open given the only way of getting out to the east was a trip round the South Suburban.

Now also part of the Western Approach Road. When the road was first built, you could see odd railway relics, now all removed or hidden under vegetation.

 

[route101]

Now also part of the Western Approach Road. When the road was first built, you could see odd railway relics, now all removed or hidden under vegetation.

When was the western approach road built?

 

[Macwomble]

When was the western approach road built?

Mid 1970s..........if my memory's correct.

 

[railjock]

When was the western approach road built?

Mid 70’s.

There was a direct connection to the E&G line westwards but it made, and makes, no sense to have a second ‘terminus’ in Edinburgh. There was talk a long time ago of a subterranean station under it but that would be so close to Haymarket anyway.

 

[route101]

Mid 1970s..........if my memory's correct.

Ah i thought it was the 80s

 

[deltic08]

I was about 11 the only time I can remember using the station for the early, and I mean early, train to Oban. I thought that the hotel was over at least part of the concourse? Certainly the platforms were out in the air, we're in the days of steam.

The Edinburgh portions of the Birmingham trains were all under the overall roof not out in the air. That was 6 or 7 coaches.

 

[leightonbd]

Terrific aerial pic here which shows the location more clearly. There are many other great images out there too. Credit to Canmore.org.uk

 

[snakeeyes]

Fantastic picture, it was a very large station.