What is going on at Barnham this morning? (04/07/2023)

[Tomp94]

What is going on at Barnham this morning? GTR say police are dealing with an incident, and a whole load of trains are cancelled and delayed because of it.
I understand something has happened to the depot?

I've also seen a video circulating on social media of trespassers at the station. This was last week.

 

[bspahh]

What is going on at Barnham this morning? GTR say police are dealing with an incident, and a whole load of trains are cancelled and delayed because of it.
I understand something has happened to the depot?

I've also seen a video circulating on social media of trespassers at the station. This was last week.

https://www.sussexexpress.co.uk/new...et-with-crane-rail-services-cancelled-4206153 says

Man arrested in Barnham after ‘attempting to steal ATM from supermarket’ with crane – Rail services ‘cancelled’​

Train services that run direct from Bognor Regis and Littlehampton have been ‘cancelled’ after a man was arrested attempting to steal an ATM from a supermarket in Barnham, Sussex Police and Southern have reported.

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service-disruptions/barnham-20230704/ says:

Route(s) affected​

All routes through Barnham

Description​

The police dealing with an incident near the railway at Barnham is causing disruption to journeys through the station.
Services may be cancelled, delayed by up to 60 minutes or revised.
We anticipate disruption will continue until 12:00.
Customer Advice
Due to the police dealing with an incident near the railway in the Barnham area, fewer trains will run on all Southern routes between Brighton, Littlehampton, Portsmouth, and Southampton Central.

Your journey will take up to 60 minutes longer than usual, and you may need to use an alternative route to reach your destination.
Southern services which normally split at Horsham and run direct to Bognor Regis have been cancelled.
Due to this Southern services which normally run from London Victoria to Bognor Regis will cover the stations between Horsham and Bognor Regis.
Southern services which run direct from Bognor Regis to Littlehampton & services which run direct between Littlehampton and Portsmouth and Southsea have been cancelled.
A special service has started to run between Bognor Regis and Chichester.
You can use your ticket to travel at no extra cost on:

• Southern and Thameslink services on any reasonable route
• South Western Railway services between Portsmouth/Southampton/Havant and London Waterloo
• Great Western Railway services between Southampton and Portsmouth and also Gatwick Airport via Reading to assist those with onward journeys
• London Underground between London Terminals – for London Waterloo and connections via South Western Railway services.
• Stagecoach Buses route 700, which runs between Brighton and Littlehampton, and between Littlehampton and Portsmouth and 500 which runs between Littlehampton, Barnham, and Chichester
• Brighton & Hove Buses on all routes for stations between Brighton and Shoreham-by-Sea

Click here for help with Stagecoach timetables and here for help with Brighton & Hove buses. For help planning your journey, you can find alternative route maps on the website here

Before travelling, please check journey planners and station information boards, and allow extra time to reach your destination.

Check the live map here to see if your journey has been affected.

Can you tell me more about the incident?
The police have been dealing with an incident in the Barnham area which had caused structural damage to a train crew depot building. This had to be evacuated for safety.
A structural engineer from the local council has attended and deemed safe following an inspection.
Barnham train crew depot is a major personnel and equipment hub for train drivers and on-train staff. A large number of train crew have been unable to start their duties this morning, which will severely affect services throughout the west coast area into the rest of the day.
Staff are now working hard to return services to their booked timetables but due to the earlier disruption and displacement of crew this will take some time.

Check before you travel:
You can check your journey using the National Rail Enquiries real-time Journey Planner

Compensation:
You may be entitled to compensation if you experience a delay in completing your journey today. Please keep your train ticket and make a note of your journey, as both will be required to support any claim.

 

[The exile]

https://www.sussexexpress.co.uk/new...et-with-crane-rail-services-cancelled-4206153 says

One would hope that, in addition to criminal proceedings, he will be landed with a very hefty bill for all the delayed trains (with no option to duck out through bankruptcy)

 

[Tomp94]

Oh!
That's quite something!!

Its going to take a while to fix!

 

[Dave W]

Not been a great 10 days for that bit of railway regarding external variables, has it!?

First Greggs, now an ATM thief!

 

[pompeyfan]

Reading the GTR twitter feed its amazing how many passengers aren’t getting how important the building is to the railway, PNBs, sign on crews etc etc

 

[LJA]

Reading the GTR twitter feed its amazing how many passengers aren’t getting how important the building is to the railway, PNBs, sign on crews etc etc

well they don’t exactly make it clear.

I appreciate there are sometimes restrictions on what they can say when police are involved, but it always seems to be vague references to “incidents”.

Yes there is now some mention of structural damage but why not just clearly say what has happened and why it’s had such an impact on services.

 

[SussexSeagull]

Was hoping to travel from Durrington to St Neots today but that feel by the wayside because of this!

 

[Magdalia]

The BBC report is here, but does not mention the impact on the railway.

Police arrested a man after stopping an attempted cash machine theft in progress at a supermarket in West Sussex.

Officers were initially called to reports of a stolen crane at a building site in Yapton Road, Barnham, at 02:15 BST.

Response units were proactively deployed to nearby cash machines and discovered a crane attempting to steal a cash machine from a supermarket in Barnham Road, Sussex Police said.

The driver of the crane, a 43-year-old man from Ashford, Middlesex, was detained after a short foot chase.

Barnham: Man arrested during attempted cash machine theft

Police discovered a crane attempting to steal a cash machine from a supermarket.

www.bbc.co.uk

I'm surprised that GTR appear to have no business continuity plan for an incident such as this.

 

[island]

I'm surprised that GTR appear to have no business continuity plan for an incident such as this.

I’m not sure I’d blame them for not having “rogue crane damaged a depot” on their bingo cards

 

[Magdalia]

I’m not sure I’d blame them for not having “rogue crane damaged a depot” on their bingo cards

No. But if they have their train crew depot in the sort of building shown in the picture, there are all sorts of incidents that could lead to loss of access. It is that generic risk that should have a business continuity plan, not the specific risk of it being damaged by a crane.

 

[pompeyfan]

No. But if they have their train crew depot in the sort of building shown in the picture, there are all sorts of incidents that could lead to loss of access. It is that generic risk that should have a business continuity plan, not the specific risk of it being damaged by a crane.

So how do you plan against that? Have a second, fully equipped building round the corner? What about crew that have their kit bags in the original building? How do you provide them with their own legal documents as well as important notices and other such items?

It is slightly surprising that a TOC would use a converted area above a convenience store for crew purposes as apposed to a dedicated building within a station but I know a few TOCs have started doing it now.

 

[75A]

Remember that Barnham is a 'Crew Signing On Point' as a result of the closure of Bognor & Littlehampton depots in 1995

 

[DarloRich]

No. But if they have their train crew depot in the sort of building shown in the picture, there are all sorts of incidents that could lead to loss of access. It is that generic risk that should have a business continuity plan, not the specific risk of it being damaged by a crane.

It is also possible the TOC have decided to tolerate the risk as it is so unlikely to happen that it isn't worth the cost of mitigating. That is debatable but is a perfectly fair stance to take

I am sure they will have business continuity plans for the loss of depot for whatever reason ( it could be sickness for instance) and that plan might be "cancel all services operated by Deport X that cant be resourced from depot Y. Call in all available staff at Depot Y to support service - review after Z hours"

There isn't that much you can do when particular skilled resource is the key item. You cant bring in contractors to drive trains for instance.

 

[swt_passenger]

So how do you plan against that? Have a second, fully equipped building round the corner? What about crew that have their kit bags in the original building? How do you provide them with their own legal documents as well as important notices and other such items?

It is slightly surprising that a TOC would use a converted area above a convenience store for crew purposes as apposed to a dedicated building within a station but I know a few TOCs have started doing it now.

I don’t think it’s that long ago they moved there from an area within the station.

 

[Townsend Hook]

I don’t think it’s that long ago they moved there from an area within the station.

I'm pretty sure they've been there since the Bognor and Littlehampton depots closed in the 1990s. Certainly the depot was in the current location above the Alldays (as the Co-op then was) when I first lived in Barnham in 2000.

 

[Tomp94]

Why does the depot exist at Barnham? There's literally nothing there... .

Chichester is a few miles away as is Worthing!

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm pretty sure they've been there since the Bognor and Littlehampton depots closed in the 1990s. Certainly the depot was in the current location above the Alldays (as the Co-op then was) when I first lived in Barnham in 2000.

I’m surprised, I remember a place towards the west end of P2 that was always busy with train crew?

 

[Townsend Hook]

I’m surprised, I remember a place towards the west end of P2 that was always busy with train crew?

That would be the office for the platform staff.

 

[pompeyfan]

Why does the depot exist at Barnham? There's literally nothing there... .

Chichester is a few miles away as is Worthing!

Because it’s conveniently placed between Littlehampton and Bognor Regis, where units are berthed, cleaned, tanked and possibly some sort of light maintenance.

 

[blelic]

Why does the depot exist at Barnham?

The Barnham/Bognor/Littlehampton services do not serve Worthing or Chichester, so Barnham is the most convenient location.

 

[Dave W]

I take colleagues' points that it is perhaps farfetched, but I'd expect most businesses to have a denial of access business continuity plan for every premises, especially if they're in private premises (I don't know how access is gained to it).

Perhaps they did and, as DarloRich has pointed out, they've mitigated the risk out as too remote. It is a pretty unlikely event!

 

[Horizon22]

well they don’t exactly make it clear.

I appreciate there are sometimes restrictions on what they can say when police are involved, but it always seems to be vague references to “incidents”.

Yes there is now some mention of structural damage but why not just clearly say what has happened and why it’s had such an impact on services.

A statement on Southern’s website said:

The police have been dealing with an incident in the Barnham area which had caused structural damage to a train crew depot building. This had to be evacuated for safety.

A structural engineer from the local council has attended and deemed it safe following an inspection.

Barnham train crew depot is a major personnel and equipment hub for train drivers and on-train staff. A large number of train crew have been unable to start their duties this morning, which will severely affect services throughout the west coast area into the rest of the day. Staff are now working hard to return services to their booked timetables but due to the earlier disruption and displacement of crew this will take some time.

Due to the police dealing with an earlier incident near the railway in the Barnham area, fewer trains will run on all Southern routes between Brighton, Littlehampton, Portsmouth, and Southampton Central. Your journey could take up to 60 minutes longer than usual, and you may need to use an alternative route to reach your destination. Before travelling, please check journey planners and station information boards, and allow extra time to complete your journey.

Seems pretty clear on the impact to me?

Why does the depot exist at Barnham? There's literally nothing there... .

Chichester is a few miles away as is Worthing!

History and its convenient location as a junction as opposed to be being based at one of the coastal terminals (which since closed).

 

[DJ_K666]

The traincrew depot/room is now above the Co-op iirc. Fair old walk from the station as you go down the ramps and round that passageway.

 

[NSE]

Drivers and OBS were able to remote book on from Bognor and Littlehampton. All routes from Barnham are signed by other depots so it can be resourced. But you can’t do it all immediately.

 

[Bald Rick]

It is also possible the TOC have decided to tolerate the risk as it is so unlikely to happen that it isn't worth the cost of mitigating. That is debatable but is a perfectly fair stance to take

I am sure they will have business continuity plans for the loss of depot for whatever reason ( it could be sickness for instance) and that plan might be "cancel all services operated by Deport X that cant be resourced from depot Y. Call in all available staff at Depot Y to support service - review after Z hours"

There isn't that much you can do when particular skilled resource is the key item. You cant bring in contractors to drive trains for instance.

Spot on.

can anybody remember any incident in recent history where a large traincrew depot / signing on point became temporarily unavailable for half a day at a moment‘s notice?

 

[norbitonflyer]

One would hope that, in addition to criminal proceedings, he will be landed with a very hefty bill for all the delayed trains (with no option to duck out through bankruptcy)

Well, he could pay with the money in the ATM..................

 

[DarloRich]

can anybody remember any incident in recent history where a large traincrew depot / signing on point became temporarily unavailable for half a day at a moment‘s notice?

I am sure there is a long term recovery plan: If depot X burns down move operations to a new site. That will take a few days unless you have a ready back up location primed and I would suggest train crew sign on point is not critical enough infrastructure to require such a back up!

You aren't going to do that when you have restricted access for 24 hours.

 

[dastocks]

What happens in a crew depot that couldn't be done remotely, assuming systems and processes etc. were set up to work that way?

 

[Magdalia]

can anybody remember any incident in recent history where a large traincrew depot / signing on point became temporarily unavailable for half a day at a moment‘s notice?

I can't quote a specific example, but it probably happened with security alerts during the troubles, and, going back further, in wartime.

But that's not the point. Even if it hadn't happened before it is still a non zero risk, and one that has today been demonstrated to have a high impact.

I'd expect most businesses to have a denial of access business continuity plan for every premises,

I don't think I'd expect this for all railway premises, most of which have high levels of security that mitigate the risk of disruption to business continuity. But when those premises are upstairs above a retail outlet in a public street it is a different matter. That's clearly a higher risk than premises on railway land, with the increased risk of access being denied due to incidents requiring the attention of all three of the blue light services.

Drivers and OBS were able to remote book on from Bognor and Littlehampton.

This is the sort of thing that I'd expect to be up and running quickly, and it is reassuring to read that it did happen. But how much of it was it planned how much of it a spur of the moment initiative?

I am sure there is a long term recovery plan: If depot X burns down move operations to a new site. That will take a few days unless you have a ready back up location primed and I would suggest train crew sign on point is not critical enough infrastructure to require such a back up!

You aren't going to do that when you have restricted access for 24 hours.

I wouldn't regard "taking a few days" as acceptable, and it wouldn't be in, for example, the NHS, a government department, or a local authority.

And there was no certainty that they would get back in the building the same day, that would not have been the case if there had been structural damage.