What is the current status of Crossrail 2?

[tranzitjim]

I have been away from the forum for a while, and have naturally lost track of what is going on with the Crossrail 2, or the new/underground section of the Elizabeth line.

What is the current status of it?
Is it operating yet, or, when is it expected to open at?

 

[londonteacher]

Crossrail 2 is a long, long way off if ever going to happen.

Crossrail 1 is delayed, expected between Autumn 2021 and end of 2022 I think.

 

[mister-sparky]

Crossrail 2 is dead and will be for a long time

 

[65477]

Although probably true the two previous answers are opinions. Looking at the Crosstalk 2 website gives you this

Crossrail2 Update November 2020 - Crossrail 2

crossrail2.co.uk

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Although probably true the two previous answers are opinions. Looking at the Crosstalk 2 website gives you this

Crossrail2 Update November 2020 - Crossrail 2

crossrail2.co.uk

The key phrase in that webpage to me is “when the time is right”. I just can not see it starting this decade.

 

[Energy]

I doubt it will happen soon. When (and if) it happens I hope Network Rail get put in charge this time with TfL being responsible for rolling stock and stations, like London Overground. Crossrail 1 has demonstrated that they aren't best suited to building mainline railways, shown by the weird signalling choices...

 

[och aye]

I have been away from the forum for a while, and have naturally lost track of what is going on with the Crossrail 2, or the new/underground section of the Elizabeth line.

What is the current status of it?
Is it operating yet, or, when is it expected to open at?

Gathering dust on the drawing board, and will probably continue to do so for many years to come.

 

[londonteacher]

Crossrail 2 has as much chance as Crossrail 3 happening!

 

[matt_world2004]

I doubt it will happen soon. When (and if) it happens I hope Network Rail get put in charge this time with TfL being responsible for rolling stock and stations, like London Overground. Crossrail 1 has demonstrated that they aren't best suited to building mainline railways, shown by the weird signalling choices...

The network rail constructed sections of crossrail 1 are in a worse state than the core. The stations out west were supposed to be finished December 2017 construction didn't start until after that

 

[randyrippley]

The network rail constructed sections of crossrail 1 are in a worse state than the core. The stations out west were supposed to be finished December 2017 construction didn't start until after that

You can argue that was good planing as there would be no point in completing the stations before the rest was ready. Sounds like good cash flow planning. Network Rail obviously anticipated that TfL would mess up on their part of the project

 

[matt_world2004]

You can argue that was good planing as there would be no point in completing the stations before the rest was ready. Sounds like good cash flow planning. Network Rail obviously anticipated that TfL would mess up on their part of the project

What in December 2017 the core was still scheduled to open on time. Part of the reasons why 9 car class 345s were delayed in the west was because the nessescary platform extensions weren't completed beyond Southall.

 

[Energy]

The network rail constructed sections of crossrail 1 are in a worse state than the core. The stations out west were supposed to be finished December 2017 construction didn't start until after that

But the line was meant to open in December 2018, if NR still did it in time (its just platform extensions required by then) then that is fine.

 

[matt_world2004]

But the line was meant to open in December 2018, if NR still did it in time (its just platform extensions required by then) then that is fine.

The platform extensions needed to be installed by may 2018 to allow crossrail to take over the Heathrow connect service and the Hayes terminators. This didn't happen. It didn't happen until march 2020.

Step free and gate lines were supposed to be done by December 2017 in preparation for tfl to take over the stations this still has not happened.

 

[coppercapped]

It has been reported that the delays on the Western section were due to cost overruns on the central sections making it imperative to reduce the spend rate on the western sections to stay within the overall budget. The other 'gotcha' was the decision to make all the stations 'level access' making the installation of lifts at many stations necessary - but forgetting to supply the funding.

In any event as the central section is still not operational and traffic is way down on normal the delays don't matter anyway. Why are people getting their knickers in a twist?

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

To answer the original question - dead as a dodo.

The days of London and the south east pigging out on infrastructure investment are over, which ever party is in power. It's just not politcally tenable when there are very few marginal seats left in those two regions. The political battleground has moved to the Engish midlands, the north of England and Wales so that's where the investment will go.

 

[Energy]

To answer the original question - dead as a dodo.

The days of London and the south east pigging out on infrastructure investment are over, which ever party is in power. It's just not politcally tenable when there are very few marginal seats left in those two regions. The political battleground has moved to the Engish midlands, the north of England and Wales so that's where the investment will go.

Depends, if it has a business case which shows it can pay it back, the treasury may still finance it.

 

[matt_world2004]

It has been reported that the delays on the Western section were due to cost overruns on the central sections making it imperative to reduce the spend rate on the western sections to stay within the overall budget. The other 'gotcha' was the decision to make all the stations 'level access' making the installation of lifts at many stations necessary - but forgetting to supply the funding.

In any event as the central section is still not operational and traffic is way down on normal the delays don't matter anyway. Why are people getting their knickers in a twist?

Where has this been reported? The budget pool for the western and eastern section stations was separate from the core budget. And the western stations are £1 billion pounds over budget

 

[Ianno87]

Depends, if it has a business case which shows it can pay it back, the treasury may still finance it.

Or if there's enough stuff going on in the North that the "government only invests in London" card can no longer be played.

 

[coppercapped]

Where has this been reported? The budget pool for the western and eastern section stations was separate from the core budget. And the western stations are £1 billion pounds over budget

It was in an article in a newspaper or magazine some three years ago concerning the way that initial work had commenced at Hayes and Harlington station and had then effectively stopped leaving the pedestrian approach to the station in a very poor condition for a long period of time. I am afraid that I did not make a note of the source, but simply remembered the story.

The work was being done by Network Rail as contractor to TfL towards the end of NR's Control Period 5 at a time when NR was in danger of exceeding its budget following the 'Hendy Review' of 2015 so the explanation given in the article seemed to me to be quite acceptable. Even if the Western works for Crossrail had their own TfL budget - which presumably was not big enough for NR's spending habits - it doesn't mean that NR didn't have budget difficulties and slowed the spend rate. The two issues are not mutually exclusive.

 

[matt_world2004]

It was in an article in a newspaper or magazine some three years ago concerning the way that initial work had commenced at Hayes and Harlington station and had then effectively stopped leaving the pedestrian approach to the station in a very poor condition for a long period of time. I am afraid that I did not make a note of the source, but simply remembered the story.

The work was being done by Network Rail as contractor to TfL towards the end of NR's Control Period 5 at a time when NR was in danger of exceeding its budget following the 'Hendy Review' of 2015 so the explanation given in the article seemed to me to be quite acceptable. Even if the Western works for Crossrail had their own TfL budget - which presumably was not big enough for NR's spending habits - it doesn't mean that NR didn't have budget difficulties and slowed the spend rate. The two issues are not mutually exclusive.

Iirc it was only certain stations (Like Hanwell) that fell under tfls scope for works. Hayes ,Ealing Broadway and the ones that are most behind fell under network rails scope for works. a separate bailout was secured for the crossrail western stations than the crossrail core works. This appears to indicate separate funding streams.

 

[Ianno87]

It was in an article in a newspaper or magazine some three years ago concerning the way that initial work had commenced at Hayes and Harlington station and had then effectively stopped leaving the pedestrian approach to the station in a very poor condition for a long period of time. I am afraid that I did not make a note of the source, but simply remembered the story.

The work was being done by Network Rail as contractor to TfL towards the end of NR's Control Period 5 at a time when NR was in danger of exceeding its budget following the 'Hendy Review' of 2015 so the explanation given in the article seemed to me to be quite acceptable. Even if the Western works for Crossrail had their own TfL budget - which presumably was not big enough for NR's spending habits - it doesn't mean that NR didn't have budget difficulties and slowed the spend rate. The two issues are not mutually exclusive.

Also the on-network station works were of debatable necessity for getting an operational railway up and running (asides from providing Access for All, etc.)

 

[matt_world2004]

Also the on-network station works were of debatable necessity for getting an operational railway up and running (asides from providing Access for All, etc.)

Platform extensions are kind of nessescary to allow 9 car class 345s to serve stations west of of Southall

 

[Bald Rick]

The stations out west were supposed to be finished December 2017 construction didn't start until after that

Someone has to agree to pay for the work before it starts.

 

[Ianno87]

Platform extensions are kind of nessescary to allow 9 car class 345s to serve stations west of of Southall

Class 345s have Selective Door Opening.

 

[WesternS]

Going back to the original premise of the thread, is Michele Dix still CEO/MD of Crossrail 2 ? I'd respectfully suggest that when she moves on, that will tell you whether there is any short or medium term future for the project and how soon it will soon come to resemble those wagons parked in the sidings just south of Bolton.....

 

[matt_world2004]

Someone has to agree to pay for the work before it starts.

Yes this happened in 2008 that's what the Crossrail Act enabled.

Class 345s have Selective Door Openin

But the platforms didn't have the appropriate in cab CCTV for the class 345s or the appropriate lighting at Hanwell and selective door opening for four cars increases the dwell time and is impractical for every station.

 

[moggie]

Welcome to Crossrail

Crossrail Ltd has delivered the Elizabeth line - a new railway for London and the South East, running from Reading and Heathrow in the west, through 42km of new tunnels under London to Shenfield and Abbey Wood in the east. The Elizabeth line has 41 accessible stations including 10 major new...

www.crossrail.co.uk

Note the date:

 

[matt_world2004]

Welcome to Crossrail

Crossrail Ltd has delivered the Elizabeth line - a new railway for London and the South East, running from Reading and Heathrow in the west, through 42km of new tunnels under London to Shenfield and Abbey Wood in the east. The Elizabeth line has 41 accessible stations including 10 major new...

www.crossrail.co.uk

Note the date:

Ealing Broadway Station

We will be delivering substantial improvements to Ealing Broadway station in preparation for the introduction of Crossrail. When the new services start from 2019, passengers will benefit from faster and more reliable links to central London and beyond.

web.archive.org

• The main station works are due to start in September 2015. The work is expected to last a little over two years. The station will remain open during these works.

Work to overhaul Ealing Broadway station as part of the Crossrail programme is due to get underway from the start of September.

Network Rail will take possession of the retail units at the front of station next month and begin to set up a temporary worksite on a section of Haven Green. The first works at the station will be to lay the foundations for a new emergency exit bridge at the far end of the platforms. The main work to the station building is scheduled to begin in summer 2016.

So delayed by over four years

 

[hwl]

Ealing Broadway Station

We will be delivering substantial improvements to Ealing Broadway station in preparation for the introduction of Crossrail. When the new services start from 2019, passengers will benefit from faster and more reliable links to central London and beyond.

web.archive.org

So delayed by over four years

The Western side station contracts were originally awarded to Carillion which went bust before much work was done, the cost from other contractors was much higher than Carillion.

 

[Recessio]

Back on topic for Crossrail 2, rather than arguments that should be done in another thread:

1. Is the route for CR2 protected? If not yet, how does this proceed?
2. Does the delay impact the proposed rebuild of Clapham Junction? Will work be done to ensure CR2 can be added at a later date?