What is the current status of Crossrail 2?

[Bald Rick]

Yes this happened in 2008 that's what the Crossrail Act enabled.

No it didn’t.

Back on topic for Crossrail 2, rather than arguments that should be done in another thread:

1. Is the route for CR2 protected? If not yet, how does this proceed?
2. Does the delay impact the proposed rebuild of Clapham Junction? Will work be done to ensure CR2 can be added at a later date?

1) most of the tunnelled section, yes. The rest has been ready to be safeguarded for years, but not formally done. There’s a formal process for that, which costs money, and it needs a decision at ‘high level’

2) no. But I wouldn’t bet on Clapham Junction being rebuilt in any significant way either.

 

[edwin_m]

Back on topic for Crossrail 2, rather than arguments that should be done in another thread:

1. Is the route for CR2 protected? If not yet, how does this proceed?
2. Does the delay impact the proposed rebuild of Clapham Junction? Will work be done to ensure CR2 can be added at a later date?

As far as I recall, the agreement between DfT and TfL to release emergency funding included provision to stop all work on CR2 except in relation to protecting the alignment. So I think we can infer the alignment is still protected. It seems sensible to do no more at the moment, as Crossrail 2 is mostly about peak commuter capacity which is something that may change permanently with more work from home, and we probably won't have a clear idea for a year or two. I don't know about Clapham Junction remodelling but the same could well apply there.

 

[47421]

One (not the most important i appreciate) of the rationales for CR2 was to help relieve congestion at Euston post HS2. What is the current thinking on that? Hope that tube can cope, esp post covid with lower medium term commuting to Euston and from extremities of tube? Will no CR2 mean Camden Town remodelling is a higher priority so Northern line capacity can be increased?

 

[Bald Rick]

One (not the most important i appreciate) of the rationales for CR2 was to help relieve congestion at Euston post HS2. What is the current thinking on that? Hope that tube can cope, esp post covid with lower medium term commuting to Euston and from extremities of tube? Will no CR2 mean Camden Town remodelling is a higher priority so Northern line capacity can be increased?

It certainly bumps Piccadilly resignalling up the pecking order for the broad corridor across London.

 

[Horizon22]

Fairly sure that some tracts of land are still safeguarded for the route though? I believe there was an issue in Chelsea about this as there's controversy about the Kings Road site there.

 

[Bald Rick]

Fairly sure that some tracts of land are still safeguarded for the route though? I believe there was an issue in Chelsea about this as there's controversy about the Kings Road site there.

Yes most of the tunnelled section is safeguarded, last renewed in 2015, as per the safeguarding maps on the Crossrail 2 website. Note that is per the tunnelled route proposal in 2015, and not as it was when the project was paused (although it’s largely the same).

 

[Ianno87]

As far as I recall, the agreement between DfT and TfL to release emergency funding included provision to stop all work on CR2 except in relation to protecting the alignment. So I think we can infer the alignment is still protected. It seems sensible to do no more at the moment, as Crossrail 2 is mostly about peak commuter capacity which is something that may change permanently with more work from home, and we probably won't have a clear idea for a year or two. I don't know about Clapham Junction remodelling but the same could well apply there.

I think it basically updates the Safeguarding for the latest alignment then leaves it at that. I.e. a controlled close-down rather than running out with the chair still spinning.

One (not the most important i appreciate) of the rationales for CR2 was to help relieve congestion at Euston post HS2. What is the current thinking on that? Hope that tube can cope, esp post covid with lower medium term commuting to Euston and from extremities of tube? Will no CR2 mean Camden Town remodelling is a higher priority so Northern line capacity can be increased?

*If* the HS2 Eastern Leg is deferred then that also defers the real pressure on passenger numbers at Euston well into the future - that would otherwise be the point where one day a whole heap of passengers previously arriving at Kings Cross get dumped at Euston instead.

 

[swt_passenger]

Back on topic for Crossrail 2, rather than arguments that should be done in another thread:

1. Is the route for CR2 protected? If not yet, how does this proceed?
2. Does the delay impact the proposed rebuild of Clapham Junction? Will work be done to ensure CR2 can be added at a later date?

1. Yes it is protected, as others have said it’s known as safeguarding and is documented on their website here:

Safeguarding - Crossrail 2

crossrail2.co.uk

2. AIUI there are no firm published plans or timescale for the rest of Clapham Junction yet.

 

[Recessio]

I see, thanks for the updates all. Glad the route is being protected, it'd be madness not to.

 

[camflyer]

From the Guardian the other day

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jan/18/crossrail-2-more-than-115m-spent-before-project-mothballe

Hopefully this is more of a pause than a cancellation. If demand does return to pre-COVID level in the next 10 years then CR2 will be needed.

 

[edwin_m]

From the Guardian the other day

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jan/18/crossrail-2-more-than-115m-spent-before-project-mothballe

Hopefully this is more of a pause than a cancellation. If demand does return to pre-COVID level in the next 10 years then CR2 will be needed.

Even if total demand returns to previous, capacity is dictated by demand in the commuter peaks so if demand is more evenly spread through the day then there is less need for more capacity. For the current government there are three reasons not to let it proceed: It's commuter-orientated, it's not in the North, and TfL will get most of the blame.

 

[matacaster]

Even if total demand returns to previous, capacity is dictated by demand in the commuter peaks so if demand is more evenly spread through the day then there is less need for more capacity. For the current government there are three reasons not to let it proceed: It's commuter-orientated, it's not in the North, and TfL will get most of the blame.

A perfect summary!

 

[Ianno87]

Even if total demand returns to previous, capacity is dictated by demand in the commuter peaks so if demand is more evenly spread through the day then there is less need for more capacity. For the current government there are three reasons not to let it proceed: It's commuter-orientated, it's not in the North, and TfL will get most of the blame.

Actually not commuter oriented entirely. Alot of the case for serving West Anglia was around unlocking housing and regeneration.

 

[edwin_m]

Actually not commuter oriented entirely. Alot of the case for serving West Anglia was around unlocking housing and regeneration.

Isn't that all to do with commuters anyway? It won't create any more connectivity other than providing a more direct route for a few journeys to or across central London.

 

[Ianno87]

Isn't that all to do with commuters anyway? It won't create any more connectivity other than providing a more direct route for a few journeys to or across central London.

No. Where people choose to live in London is influenced by transport choices and capacity, whether or not you use them to "commute" or for other purposes.

 

[LUYMun]

It seems to me that Crossrail 2 may have been underestimated in terms of its termini at either end.
There are proposals to expand the London Overground brand into South London, so the inclusion of the Shepperton/Hampton Court/Chessington South/Epsom branches could be better off with London Overground. Perhaps the SWML stopping/semi-fast trains to Basingstoke, Guildford or Alton may be more of a suitable stance? The same goes to the north. Stansted Airport may help commuters connect easily in central London with Crossrail 1 for other airports at City and Heathrow. Welwyn Garden City and Stevenage seems like they've been given long-term vision for an extension of the existing Crossrail 2 terminus at New Southgate.

 

[Iliketrains123]

To answer the original question - dead as a dodo.

The days of London and the south east pigging out on infrastructure investment are over, which ever party is in power. It's just not politcally tenable when there are very few marginal seats left in those two regions. The political battleground has moved to the Engish midlands, the north of England and Wales so that's where the investment will go.

Plenty of pork barrelling to be done elsewhere.

 

[camflyer]

If Crossrail 2 doesn't happen then is there a Plan B for increasing capacity? I thought HS2 was relying on CR2 to deal with the extra number of passengers at Euston.

 

[Horizon22]

If Crossrail 2 doesn't happen then is there a Plan B for increasing capacity? I thought HS2 was relying on CR2 to deal with the extra number of passengers at Euston.

I doubt there is one. Euston will just become more overcrowded, although if the new entrance goes ahead as planned, it should at least partially relieve passengers and shift some to Euston Square.

 

[HSTEd]

Might be able to put more capacity into the WLL and use it to move HS2 passengers going to the south east of London away from Euston.

 

[Recessio]

I doubt there is one. Euston will just become more overcrowded, although if the new entrance goes ahead as planned, it should at least partially relieve passengers and shift some to Euston Square.

Complete anecdotal evidence on my part, but given the amount of people I see each rush hour walking on the North pavement of Euston Road crossing to Euston Square via the subway, I think that change alone will make a huge difference!