What is the Optimum Length of a Heritage Railway?

[12LDA28C]

I do much prefer it when you can reach a heritage railway entirely by rail, e.g. Isle of Wight.

I'd like to see you reach the Isle of Wight 'entirely by rail'.

 

[Calthrop]

I like heritage railways where you can feel you've done a "real" journey in some sense. Length is important but so is what's at either end. Ideal to me is a junction station with NR at one end and an actual town at the other. Quite a lot of heritage railways end at a stop in the middle of some fields somewhere, at a station that never existed in its real life as a terminus. This always destroys the illusion somewhat.

I'd say there are quite a few examples of railways where an extension of a mile or two would be quite transformational because it would bring the line back to a meaningful destination - rather than because it would allow a longer running time. Of course I'm aware of the reasons why these "last mile" extensions are often very difficult to achieve.

I do much prefer it when you can reach a heritage railway entirely by rail, e.g. Bluebell, Watercress, Bodmin, Isle of Wight.

Same here. Though I don't mind if it includes a short hike across town to the heritage station (e.g. Loughborough (Midland) to Loughborough Central) since that invokes the important heritage aspect of rival companies with their own stations, and you get to see a bit of the local area.

Of course you get both versions on the Spa Valley railway - cross-platform interchange at Eridge and cross-town at Tunbridge Wells.

To all quoted above: these are very much my sentiments re heritage lines. In the main -- the more it feels to me, in the ways set out above, like a "real railway" as in the days of very many parts of the country and places therein, being accessible by passenger rail in a more-or-less integrated fashion; the more I like it. I would opine, though, that -- as touched on upthread -- such feelings and preferences are largely peculiar to us railway-enthusiast types; who are far fewer in number, than non-enthusiast visitors who have chosen the line for a day out -- thus, much more money overall goes into the railways' coffers, from the ordinary folks: so the railway needs to be mindful of what they most like / dislike, and act accordingly. (One might -- not altogether charitably -- wish that it weren't so; but it is.)

Per my perception, "ordinary" visitors as above are (very often !) appreciative of steam locos being present and active; and of older-style pleasingly "different" coaching stock to travel in; but I would reckon that few of them are bothered about -- or take any cognizance of -- the subtleties of, particularly as per @BRX's post, the two ends of the line being as per the days of ubiquitous rural local lines. I doubt whether the business of a "terminus in the middle of nowhere, at a station never really a terminus -- maybe a new creation of the heritage line, never a station in the old days" is on most ordinary customers' radar at all. I might be being here, unjustly condescending and contemptuous vis-a-vis the "Philistine normals"; but, more's the pity, I don't think I am.

 

[Krokodil]

I'd like to see you reach the Isle of Wight 'entirely by rail'.

Well British Rail used to own the ferries. The service is advertised as an integrated part of the rail network.

I doubt whether the business of a "terminus in the middle of nowhere, at a station never really a terminus -- maybe a new creation of the heritage line, never a station in the old days" is on most ordinary customers' radar at all.

I would say that a run-round loop in a field certainly adds nothing for a visitor. Some kind of destination can be an important driver of traffic, often taking the form of a quaint village or a seaside town. At the very least the terminus needs a café

 

[Flying Phil]

I think that there is no "optimum length for a heritage railway" as there are many different heritage railways. Some are at their ideal length, some would like to be a bit longer and a few are, possibly, just a bit too long. It depends upon the resources, human and financial, the location, the geography of the area and the attractions on offer.
What is fantastic is that we have that variety, in a comparitively small area (UK) so that our visitors can choose which length suits them at the time.
Of course, some of the longer lines can be used to give shorter journeys by changing trains at intermediate stations.
The GCR is fortunate in this regard, as the double track can give a higher frequency of trains - and it even has its own short branch line to Mountsorrel!

 

[2392]

Can but agree with Fling Phil's reply. As there are so many diverse landscapes up and down the land, each with it's own unique character. On the one hand you have likes of the NYMR with at one end the coast and Whitby and the quaint archetypal country market town of Pickering with it's castle, complete with some stunning landscape between. Then there's the Worth Valley in West Yorkshire with it's industrial landscape [or what's left of it!],which offers a completely different scene of the same county.

 

[Cowley]

I think that there is no "optimum length for a heritage railway" as there are many different heritage railways. Some are at their ideal length, some would like to be a bit longer and a few are, possibly, just a bit too long. It depends upon the resources, human and financial, the location, the geography of the area and the attractions on offer.
What is fantastic is that we have that variety, in a comparitively small area (UK) so that our visitors can choose which length suits them at the time.
Of course, some of the longer lines can be used to give shorter journeys by changing trains at intermediate stations.
The GCR is fortunate in this regard, as the double track can give a higher frequency of trains - and it even has its own short branch line to Mountsorrel!

I think that’s probably how I see it too. I ticked off the Churnet Valley Railway, Ecclesbourne Valley Railway and Peak Rail this last weekend. All reasonably near to each other, all very different to each other and all fascinating in their own different ways.

As you say, there is no ‘optimum length’ because every railway has completely different circumstances.

 

[Mike Machin]

I always notice what's the first section in the "how to find us" page on preserved railway websites. It's nearly always driving directions. Even for those with mainline rail connections.

That’s because only 2% of all journeys in the UK are made rail.

 

[eldomtom2]

I would say that a run-round loop in a field certainly adds nothing for a visitor. Some kind of destination can be an important driver of traffic, often taking the form of a quaint village or a seaside town. At the very least the terminus needs a café

I would definitely agree there - I think the idea that the ideal heritage railway has more to do at the other end than watch the loco run around is quite well established at this point.

 

[LUYMun]

I would definitely agree there - I think the idea that the ideal heritage railway has more to do at the other end than watch the loco run around is quite well established at this point.

While visiting the Bluebell Railway with family back in 2019, where the train had a lengthy wait at Kingscote awaiting the Golden Arrow to pass through, I recall that the announcements informed visitors to stretch their legs and have a look around the station. The passengers did so, and several families were interested at the play and picnic area. It dawned on me that the volunteers and their enthusiasm can enhance the visitors' experience at the station, as they could additionally do things in their visit that would give them a flavour of the railways in years gone by, particularly where dwell times could be lengthened at times.

 

[Flying Phil]

While visiting the Bluebell Railway with family back in 2019, where the train had a lengthy wait at Kingscote awaiting the Golden Arrow to pass through, I recall that the announcements informed visitors to stretch their legs and have a look around the station. The passengers did so, and several families were interested at the play and picnic area. It dawned on me that the volunteers and their enthusiasm can enhance the visitors' experience at the station, as they could additionally do things in their visit that would give them a flavour of the railways in years gone by, particularly where dwell times could be lengthened at times.

The GCR have lengthened the run round time at Leicester North so that passengers can get out and go up on the locomotive footplate.

 

[D6130]

The GCR have lengthened the run round time at Leicester North so that passengers can get out and go up on the locomotive footplate.

That's a good idea....after all, there's not much else to see there yet!

 

[Train Maniac]

That's a good idea....after all, there's not much else to see there yet!

I dunno...
Theres a Mc Donalds nearby and a walk along the River Trent to the city centre if you fancy it

 

[duffield]

I dunno...
Theres a Mc Donalds nearby and a walk along the River Trent to the city centre if you fancy it

It's actually the River Soar. It diverges from the Trent at Trent Lock, near Trent South junction.

 

[Train Maniac]

It's actually the River Soar. It diverges from the Trent at Trent Lock, near Trent South junction.

Ah. Noted

 

[xotGD]

That's a good idea....after all, there's not much else to see there yet!

I remember walking to a pub that served decent ale, but that was over 20 years ago!

 

[Flying Phil]

That's a good idea....after all, there's not much else to see there yet!

There is the Space Centre and Abbey Pumping Station Museum within half a mile of Leicester North Station....and it is still the desire (And plan) to have a Railway Museum at Leicester North....complete with double track to Rothley. So whilst it is only the station at present - keep watching this space!

 

[Backroom_boy]

I've often thought the Ravenglass would be well to extend to Boot again to give more of a destination but maybe Boot residents aren't so keen.

 

[John Luxton]

I've often thought the Ravenglass would be well to extend to Boot again to give more of a destination but maybe Boot residents aren't so keen.

I seem to recall reading the reason for the termination at Dalegarth being that the smaller miniature locos could not cope with the gradient to Boot unlike their larger narrow gauge predecessors.

 

[D6130]

I've often thought the Ravenglass would be well to extend to Boot again to give more of a destination but maybe Boot residents aren't so keen.

It would certainly give a shorter walk to the pubs!

 

[Backroom_boy]

I seem to recall reading the reason for the termination at Dalegarth being that the smaller miniature locos could not cope with the gradient to Boot unlike their larger narrow gauge predecessors.

Yes but aren't current runners mainly beefier types? Or the ones doing the full end-to-end anyway.

 

[Purple Train]

It's a bit of a "how long is a piece of string" question, and I agree with @Flying Phil. From the perspective of entertainment, it entirely depends on what's there: the Wensleydale Railway is 22 miles long but doesn't have much to entertain a younger person, the East Anglian Railway Museum is 0 miles long but has an enormous amount. The North Yorkshire Moors Railway is 18 miles long and has an enormous amount, and the Colne Valley Railway is a mile long and doesn't have much.

There's simply too much variation to be able to categorise everything, and all aimed at different markets as well. So, personally, my view is that there isn't an optimum length, as length is only part of the entertainment. Or maybe I'm just easily amused.

 

[A S Leib]

I'd say that ideally

• There should be a substantial amount to do at at least one end of the line (or at an intermediate station / surrounding area if a one-way journey's ~45+ minutes)*
• If there isn't tonnes to do at stations, it should be within easy reach of other attractions
• It should be possible to easily visit every station on the line at which there is something to do in one day
• If the railway service has gaps of over an hour, it should be possible to go between neighbouring stations by foot or bus - depending on bus frequency - in under half an hour

*Although for e.g. the Snowdon Mountain Railway I'd say that the scenery counts as 'something to do'.

 

[D6130]

*Although for e.g. the Snowdon Mountain Railway I'd say that the scenery counts as 'something to do'.

When I visited the Snowdon Mountain Railway last month, most of the screaming kids in my carriage had no interest whatsoever in the scenery.

 

[52290]

What would be the longest preserved railway in the world? I suggest the Inlandsbanan in Sweden which is around 800 miles from Kristinehamm to Gallivare. I did it from Östersund northwards. Staying overnight at Storuman in the local high school during the long summer holidays. The train was well patronised.

 

[Watershed]

What would be the longest preserved railway in the world? I suggest the Inlandsbanan in Sweden which is around 800 miles from Kristinehamm to Gallivare. I did it from Östersund northwards. Staying overnight at Storuman in the local high school during the long summer holidays. The train was well patronised.

I don't think it can really be called a preserved railway. It has freight services throughout the year, and the linespeeds are generally much higher than any preserved railway (up to 80-100 km/h).

It also mostly uses modern colour-light signalling, and has fully signalled connections to the Swedish national network at several points (having previously been part of it). It's just a privately owned line really.

It's certainly unusual and lightly used, but I don't think it meets any of the criteria for being considered a preserved railway.

 

[John Luxton]

Recent report in the October Ffestiniog Magazine on traffic suggested that the longer distance full line option was loading better than the shorter "Woodland Wanderer" with the full line "Quarryman" from Blaenau Ffestiniog to Porthmadog with it "running full on most days". This is an interesting development considering that the short line option was being sold as being what the passengers wanted post Covid.

 

[A S Leib]

What would be the longest preserved railway in the world? I suggest the Inlandsbanan in Sweden which is around 800 miles from Kristinehamm to Gallivare. I did it from Östersund northwards. Staying overnight at Storuman in the local high school during the long summer holidays. The train was well patronised.

Any gauge? The Cumbrec and Toltec in New Mexico and Colorado is 64 miles. The Gulflander in Queensland is 151 km (94 miles) but as it's operated by Queensland Rail I don't think it counts.

 

[Krokodil]

Recent report in the October Ffestiniog Magazine on traffic suggested that the longer distance full line option was loading better than the shorter "Woodland Wanderer" with the full line "Quarryman" from Blaenau Ffestiniog to Porthmadog with it "running full on most days". This is an interesting development considering that the short line option was being sold as being what the passengers wanted post Covid.

I think that a lot of it depends upon the market. Families may gravitate towards the shorter services, whereas the coach parties often take a one-way trip over a longer distance.