What is the point of Old Oak Common?

[Mgameing123]

Surely they can figure out a way to build a new station for the West London Line perhaps right over the GWML? Will be an engineering challenge but the Milton Keynes Line connectivity is crucial.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely they can figure out a way to build a new station for the West London Line perhaps right over the GWML? Will be an engineering challenge but the Milton Keynes Line connectivity is crucial.

The WCML you mean (or in NSE terms the Northampton Line)? To be useful you'd need slow line platforms at Willesden Jn, but I do think that would be useful as it could mean the Southern service (a bit of an infrequent pain) being removed in favour of twice an hour connections at Willesden.

 

[Mgameing123]

The WCML you mean (or in NSE terms the Northampton Line)? To be useful you'd need slow line platforms at Willesden Jn, but I do think that would be useful as it could mean the Southern service (a bit of an infrequent pain) being removed in favour of twice an hour connections at Willesden.

No I just mean the current Southern service between East Croydon and Watford Junction.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

No I just mean the current Southern service between East Croydon and Watford Junction.

If a new station was constructed above the GWR main line with an exit into Scrubs Lane and a travellator to Old Oak Common, it would be a very busy station and when HS2 is in operation the two stations combined would become a major transport hub, west London's equivalent to Stratford. It would not be used only by people travelling between south London and Watford. The existing London Overground service using the West London Line is already intensely used.

 

[AlbertBeale]

If a new station was constructed above the GWR main line with an exit into Scrubs Lane and a travellator to Old Oak Common, it would be a very busy station and when HS2 is in operation the two stations combined would become a major transport hub, west London's equivalent to Stratford. It would not be used only by people travelling between south London and Watford. The existing London Overground service using the West London Line is already intensely used.

Yes - clearly a station on that line there, south of the junction, could give interchange to and from OOC with both Overground and Southern routes along the WLL. Added to a link from the opposite end of OOC to the west, connecting with both the NLL and (future) Duddon Hill Overground routes, this would give enviable onward connectivity in many directions from OOC. As has been said, a kind of Overground-mainline set-up to mimic the tube-DLR-mainline situation at Stratford; and a similar distance from central London.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No I just mean the current Southern service between East Croydon and Watford Junction.

Ah.

I think a decent set of connectivity options around there including reinstating Willesden Jn station on the AC slow lines would remove the need for that service entirely. Two or even four connections an hour (depending what you could path stopping - certainly the MKC stopper but possibly also the Tring semifast) would knock 4 coaches once an hour into the proverbial cocked hat.

 

[Meerkat]

If a new station was constructed above the GWR main line with an exit into Scrubs Lane and a travellator to Old Oak Common, it would be a very busy station and when HS2 is in operation the two stations combined would become a major transport hub, west London's equivalent to Stratford. It would not be used only by people travelling between south London and Watford. The existing London Overground service using the West London Line is already intensely used.

Is there any line flat enough there for a decent length station?
For the huge cost of that you may as well rebuild Willesden Junction and put in a people mover from there to OOC and maybe on to North Acton tube (and maybe on into Park Royal and the hospital)

 

[Basil Jet]

If a new station was constructed above the GWR main line with an exit into Scrubs Lane and a travellator to Old Oak Common, it would be a very busy station and when HS2 is in operation the two stations combined would become a major transport hub, west London's equivalent to Stratford.

The travelator would be about 600 metres long, and would take 13 minutes to ride. It's more than double the rail distance from Leicester Square to Covent Garden, for instance. Most of the area within walking distance of Mitre Bridge is either cemetery or common, so there would be few walk-ups. Extra platforms at Willesden Junction with a people mover to OOC makes more sense.

 

[cle]

The WLL LO services are far more frequent (5tph?), and the Southern service has deviated by the Hythe Road station. It is currently just 1tph and unlikely to get back north of Watford Junction largely, so I think the metro WLL service is far more important to connect to OOC.

 

[Mgameing123]

The WLL LO services are far more frequent (5tph?), and the Southern service has deviated by the Hythe Road station. It is currently just 1tph and unlikely to get back north of Watford Junction largely, so I think the metro WLL service is far more important to connect to OOC.

If the Southern service gets at stop at OOC (If we try the very best) then I bet that they will be forced to run more trains per hour.

 

[PGAT]

If the Southern service gets at stop at OOC (If we try the very best) then I bet that they will be forced to run more trains per hour.

The limiting factor is capacity on the WLL. 2tph to Watford would probably be do-able but not any more and it’s already a huge ask

 

[Mgameing123]

The limiting factor is capacity on the WLL. 2tph to Watford would probably be do-able but not any more and it’s already a huge ask

If they really needed the capacity down towards Croydon they can extend some trains from Stratford.

 

[cle]

I don't personally believe the Watford services need to go south of Clapham Junction. 2tph Watford and 6tph Stratford would be my ideal set up., using p17 if needed - but preferably with another solution on the west/north side - finally doing the platform 0 works, or another version of it.

And the same path to Croydon might be much better patronized operating an extra tph to Victoria, at 10-12 cars too. Maybe it gets to Caterham and can free up something else, etc etc.

 

[Snow1964]

The disruption to trains to South West has been doing rounds of various local news sites, was originally a story in Plymouth area, now reached Somerset

South West 'decade of disruption' for rail passengers warning

A South West MP has issued a stark warning to South West rail passengers, claiming they face a "decade of disruption" due to the planned construction of a new HS2 station in London.

Labour MP for Plymouth Sutton and Devonport Luke Pollard has said building the "super hub" station at Old Oak Common in West London will negatively impact travel between the South West and Paddington.

South West 'decade of disruption' for rail passengers warning

Luke Pollard MP has warned that the construction of a new HS2 station in London will lead to a 'decade of disruption' for rail passengers travelling between the South West and the capital

www.somersetlive.co.uk

Not going to bore anyone with various public comments & replies, but many are about disrupting around weekends and bank holidays. Obviously no one in South West is impressed by any decision to disrupt these trains rather than the London commuter times (which those in SW clearly don't care about)

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

The disruption to trains to South West has been doing rounds of various local news sites, was originally a story in Plymouth area, now reached Somerset

South West 'decade of disruption' for rail passengers warning

Luke Pollard MP has warned that the construction of a new HS2 station in London will lead to a 'decade of disruption' for rail passengers travelling between the South West and the capital

www.somersetlive.co.uk

Not going to bore anyone with various public comments & replies, but many are about disrupting around weekends and bank holidays. Obviously no one in South West is impressed by any decision to disrupt these trains rather than the London commuter times (which those in SW clearly don't care about)

How different is this to what happened during WCRM? I hope people in the South West aren't thinking that somehow they're being singled out? Or that the GWML exists solely for their benefit? The only sympathy I have is that commuter traffic around London may very well be less than it once was. OTOH leisure traffic is pretty well booming throughout the week. As the saying goes: you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

 

[Benjwri]

How different is this to what happened during WCRM? I hope people in the South West aren't thinking that somehow they're being singled out? Or that the GWML exists solely for their benefit? The only sympathy I have is that commuter traffic around London may very well be less than it once was. OTOH leisure traffic is pretty well booming throughout the week. As the saying goes: you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

It’s worth remembering though that an decent amount of trains people use to commute outside of London are London services, as is the setup of the GWML, and it’s become a fairly regular occurrence that people are facing significant delays because of issues between Reading and London.

I think it’s pretty fair to be annoyed that the is potentially a significantly reduced service around Cornwall and Bristol because of a new station in London being built.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

It’s worth remembering though that an decent amount of trains people use to commute outside of London are London services, as is the setup of the GWML, and it’s become a fairly regular occurrence that people are facing significant delays because of issues between Reading and London.

I think it’s pretty fair to be annoyed that the is potentially a significantly reduced service around Cornwall and Bristol because of a new station in London being built.

The alternative is to have fewer through trains in the permanent timetable. But people don't like that idea either. There isn't the capacity in the network, not only in GW land, to build in a more robust level of resilience. So planned disruption is necessary but also has to try to reconcile a lot of different and often conflicting demands. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[stuu]

The disruption to trains to South West has been doing rounds of various local news sites, was originally a story in Plymouth area, now reached Somerset

South West 'decade of disruption' for rail passengers warning

Luke Pollard MP has warned that the construction of a new HS2 station in London will lead to a 'decade of disruption' for rail passengers travelling between the South West and the capital

www.somersetlive.co.uk

Not going to bore anyone with various public comments & replies, but many are about disrupting around weekends and bank holidays. Obviously no one in South West is impressed by any decision to disrupt these trains rather than the London commuter times (which those in SW clearly don't care about)

It's nonsense though. The engineering works are due (I know!), to finish in 2028, which by my calendar isn't a decade away. And as far as I'm aware, the major closures will close all lines so it isn't a case of preferential treatment for London commuters over long distance passengers

 

[Sly Old Fox]

Probably fed up after years of disruption for electrification only for the wires to end up nowhere that they were originally planned to anyway.

 

[Snow1964]

HS2 has issued a new video of a fly through at Old Oak

The Departure board has :
17:00 to Manchester Piccadilly platform 1
17:01 to Shenfield platform 8
17:02 to Heathrow Terminal 4 platform 9
17:03 to Weston super Mare platform 12
17:04 to Abbey Wood platform 7
17:06 to Maidenhead platform 10
17:10 to Birmingham Curzon Street platform 2
17:11 to Shenfield platform 8
17:12 to Heathrow Terminal 5 platform 11
17:13 to Swansea platform 12
17:16 to Oxford platform 13
17:20 to Penzance platform 14
17:20 to Glasgow Central platform 4
17:26 to Hereford platform 14

Suggests platforms will be numbered as 1+2 HS2 northbound, 3+4 middle HS2 (do Scotland trains start here rather than Euston), 5+6 towards Euston (unadvertised), 7+8 Elizabeth line towards London, 9+10 Elizabeth line westbound, 11-14 all seem to be GWR westbound, nothing GWR towards Paddington (?)

If that is evening peak hour, not going to be a frequent service.

But maybe it is artistic licence, although they have gone to trouble of adding calling points and which zones the trains stop in.

Time shown is 17:00 20seconds so none of that disappearing off departure boards before it goes stuff, which is good.

 

[Benjwri]

HS2 has issued a new video of a fly through at Old Oak

The Departure board has :
17:00 to Manchester Piccadilly platform 1
17:01 to Shenfield platform 8
17:02 to Heathrow Terminal 4 platform 9
17:03 to Weston super Mare platform 12
17:04 to Abbey Wood platform 7
17:06 to Maidenhead platform 10
17:10 to Birmingham Curzon Street platform 2
17:11 to Shenfield platform 8
17:12 to Heathrow Terminal 5 platform 11
17:13 to Swansea platform 12
17:16 to Oxford platform 13
17:20 to Penzance platform 14
17:20 to Glasgow Central platform 4
17:26 to Hereford platform 14

Suggests platforms will be numbered as 1+2 HS2 northbound, 3+4 middle HS2 (do Scotland trains start here rather than Euston), 5+6 towards Euston (unadvertised), 7+8 Elizabeth line towards London, 9+10 Elizabeth line westbound, 11-14 all seem to be GWR westbound, nothing GWR towards Paddington (?)

If that is evening peak hour, not going to be a frequent service.

But maybe it is artistic licence, although they have gone to trouble of adding calling points and which zones the trains stop in.

Time shown is 17:00 20seconds so none of that disappearing off departure boards before it goes stuff, which is good.

I am almost 100% this is not an actual timetable, the timetable that far away is nowhere near finalised, and as you mention it has westbound services calling at all GWR platforms, which is physically impossible if eastbound services are being run.

The entire thing is just a mock up, absolutely no inferences about service frequency should be drawn from this. Not least because the current XR frequency on the GWML is higher than shown.

Certainly can’t draw anything on disappearing from departure boards, and whether Euston and Paddington aren’t advertised as that’s set up by NR and station staff.

 

[Topological]

Would be quite a recast on the GWR since Swansea leaves at xx48 from Paddington.

Definitely just indicative.

 

[PGAT]

It's an opportunity for them to show off as many different destinations OOC will serve, unfortunately it isn't a verbatim timetable for enthusiasts to enjoy

 

[Benjwri]

Would be quite a recast on the GWR since Swansea leaves at xx48 from Paddington.

Definitely just indicative.

To be fair opening OOC will probably result in a recast, but unlikely this is showing the result

 

[SynthD]

The Elizabeth line will have higher platform numbers than GWR/HEx.

The middle platforms of the high speed side might be for recovery only, if it’s more efficient to use two sides of one platform in each direction.

 

[Benjwri]

The Elizabeth line will have higher platform numbers than GWR/HEx.

The middle platforms of the high speed side might be for recovery only, if it’s more efficient to use two sides of one platform in each direction.

I would guess they'll use both, roughly alternating, like they do at Reading.

And yes indications so far are that platform numbering is reversed to what is shown here.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I would guess they'll use both, roughly alternating, like they do at Reading.

And yes indications so far are that platform numbering is reversed to what is shown here.

In fact this platform numbering isn't even consecutive across the station is it? Wouldn't 1-6 be in the opposite order?

 

[Basil Jet]

But maybe it is artistic licence, although they have gone to trouble of adding calling points and which zones the trains stop in.

.. including a station called just "Interchange". Has it been decided that Birmingham International will just have this enigmatic name?

 

[cle]

Will there be six HS platforms?

And then 2x2 Crossrail/slows and 2x2 GWML fasts?

edit - and will they all be islands? or two sides for HS?

 

[Snow1964]

Will there be six HS platforms?

And then 2x2 Crossrail/slows and 2x2 GWML fasts?

edit - and will they all be islands? or two sides for HS?

Yes, 7 island platforms