Hi, could anyone explain the significance of the ground shunt signal on the left hand side of this photograph at Orpington? In particular why a yellow band?
thanks
Kev
In this case, the permitted move is into theThanks for that and a very interesting website.
A pure SR half-moon design, rather than the BR full disc at Orpington.Slightly earlier version we have on display at St Albans South:
View attachment 80652The SR, with electricity available, tended to use floodlights rather than the more usual lamps as seen on the left, although we've fitted our ground discs with LED bulbs rather than oil lamps for convenience and greater visibility in daylight!
No it wasn't obvious to me and it helps me understand the reason for the signal.In this case, the permitted move is into the headcount (used for berthing) where the 4EPB is sat - apologies if that's obvious.
In general use, although not very prolific. I suspect that some regions favoured them more than others, the Southern used them a fair bit, the Western not so much (although I seem to recall a yellow ground-position-light at Old Oak), don't recall ever seeing an example on the LM.No it wasn't obvious to me and it helps me understand the reason for the signal.
Were these signals specific to a region or were they in general use? I don't recall seeing one before but probably have.
Yellow shunts were in use over the whole network as far as I'm aware, though the form of the signal itself would follow the local practice of the time and region it was installed in. There were even colour-light versions, like the standard three-lens shunting signal with two white lights but with a yellow instead of the red. I believe some were even converted to the current standard with a bi-colour lens so they showed two yellows at an angle or two whites horizontally, though I don't recall ever seeing one.No it wasn't obvious to me and it helps me understand the reason for the signal.
Were these signals specific to a region or were they in general use? I don't recall seeing one before but probably have.
I found one at Bloxwich in around 2006, facing right onto the level crossing. It would have gone with the Chase Line re-signaling. The link below shows it to be yellow and white, but yellow and black was more common as easier to see.don't recall ever seeing an example on the LM.
Wow, that is a weird place to put a signal. I suppose it could not be put on the approach to the crossing, because otherwise a driver could pass it "on" and over the open crossing. But that means there must have been another signal, on the approach to the crossing, reading up to the yellow shunt.I found one at Bloxwich in around 2006, facing right onto the level crossing. It would have gone with the Chase Line re-signaling. The link below shows it to be yellow and white, but yellow and black was more common as easier to see.
Slightly earlier version we have on display at St Albans South:
View attachment 80652
The SR, with electricity available, tended to use floodlights rather than the more usual lamps as seen on the left, although we've fitted our ground discs with LED bulbs rather than oil lamps for convenience and greater visibility in daylight!
That makes sense, and ties with my memories.In my experience, yellow and black shunts tended to be the electrically-operated ones, while traditional mechanically-operated ones tended to be yellow and white.
Thanks - and it works off our MR ground frame - which is an interesting mix!Beautifully restored!
Wow, that is a rarity. Brings home, however, that shunt signals were originally just miniature semaphores.That makes sense, and ties with my memories.
Slightly OT: a real rarity (I remember being startled) was a full-size yellow semaphore running signal. It was at the exit from Brockenhurst down sidings, and beyond Brockenhurst B down starter (hence needing a running signal). Not sure what the history is, but a look at the box diagram shows the exit crossover was worked from a ground frame, so it may have been a later addition.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/77350329@N07/49937670192
I was half expecting my comment about not having seen any on the LM to produce a flood of replies listing places. That yours is only the second, suggests that they were very rare on the LM.In general use, although not very prolific. I suspect that some regions favoured them more than others, the Southern used them a fair bit, the Western not so much (although I seem to recall a yellow ground-position-light at Old Oak), don't recall ever seeing an example on the LM.
There was one at Watford North when the CCD was extant.It was carefully disconnected one Sat am when the S+C was taken out , with a view to using it for training at the school.
In the 30 mins from the disconnection , and before a Traction Inspector could collect , - said disc was stolen. They are quite rare. (hence the keeness to have the ex Petersfield disc saved and restored)
Wow, that is a rarity. Brings home, however, that shunt signals were originally just miniature semaphores.
A shunt disc is basically just a miniature red (or yellow) semaphore arm on a white background for ease of visibility.
Yet the signal to go into those sidings was of Midland Railway design. Maybe it was all that was available when a replacement was needed in a hurry!The 2 electrified turnback sidings at Harrow and Wealdstone (No 2) were fitted with 2 LNW semaphore armed shunt signals for departing moves - they survived until resignalling in about 1988 - I really hope they went to a good and safe home. They must have been of 1910 - 1917 vintage when the lines were installed.
Yellow shunts were in use over the whole network as far as I'm aware, though the form of the signal itself would follow the local practice of the time and region it was installed in. There were even colour-light versions, like the standard three-lens shunting signal with two white lights but with a yellow instead of the red. I believe some were even converted to the current standard with a bi-colour lens so they showed two yellows at an angle or two whites horizontally, though I don't recall ever seeing one.
Yet the signal to go into those sidings was of Midland Railway design. Maybe it was all that was available when a replacement was needed in a hurry!
Quite unusual to have signals controlled by a ground frame, as hand signals are usually considered sufficient. Is there a particular problem here with sightlines between the GF operator and the driver?There is an example of one at Thingley Junction on this page (second from bottom): http://www.railsigns.uk/photos/p_shuntsig2/p_shuntsig2.html
It is one of two that I can think of, both of which are controlled by way of a groundframe. Presumably, the thinking is that it's less likely someone would accidentally move the points while a train is traversing them if they're within sight of the thing.
Quite unusual to have signals controlled by a ground frame, as hand signals are usually considered sufficient. Is there a particular problem here with sightlines between the GF operator and the driver?
To be honest I'm now even more confused, wondering what the situation is that requires a slot on a yellow shunt from a ground frame.Perhaps some sloppy wording on my part, the slot for the signal is controlled from the groundframe, rather than the groundframe operator having sole control over the signal.
To be honest I'm now even more confused, wondering what the situation is that requires a slot on a yellow shunt from a ground frame.
There is an example of one at Thingley Junction on this page (second from bottom): http://www.railsigns.uk/photos/p_shuntsig2/p_shuntsig2.html
It is one of two that I can think of, both of which are controlled by way of a groundframe. Presumably, the thinking is that it's less likely someone would accidentally move the points while a train is traversing them if they're within sight of the thing.
A careful look at the railsigns photo seems to indicate there was once mechanical rodding about (line of now empty 'stools' for holding the rodding rollers going away from the camera) but that the point is now probably electrically operated. Don't know the area at all, but has there been some resignalling in recent years which may have removed the ground frame?Quite unusual to have signals controlled by a ground frame, as hand signals are usually considered sufficient. Is there a particular problem here with sightlines between the GF operator and the driver?
A careful look at the railsigns photo seems to indicate there was once mechanical rodding about (line of now empty 'stools' for holding the rodding rollers going away from the camera) but that the point is now probably electrically operated. Don't know the area at all, but has there been some resignalling in recent years which may have removed the ground frame?