what locomotives are approved for use in the Channel Tunnel and HS1?

[popeter45]

as the Title says what trains both UK and Continental have the required signalling and are approved to traverse the Channel tunnel?, apart from the maintenance trains all i can think of are the class 9000's, class 92's as well as the eurostar 373's and 374, do SNCF or and other continental railway companies have rolling stock that can use it?

 

[_toommm_]

There’s also the Class 0001 (Class 21 when running on British soil):

Eurotunnel Class 0001 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[FOH]

SNCF BB22200 locos used to be used, no idea if they remain certified.

 

[Bob Price]

SNCF BB22200 locos used to be used, no idea if they remain certified.

Were these the ones that hauled the Postal TGV up to St Pancras a few years ago?

 

[themiller]

Were these the ones that hauled the Postal TGV up to St Pancras a few years ago?

No, those were the locos that operated the shuttles until the class 92s were in service. The ones that hauled the TGV were Eurotunnel class 0001 Maks.

 

[59CosG95]

Alstom's Prima II and Siemens' Vectron were also tested in the Channel Tunnel back in 2012/2013 respectively.

Prima II tested in the Channel Tunnel

EUROPE: An Alstom Prima II electric locomotive was tested in the Channel Tunnel on the night of September 29-30, with a view to enabling standard locomotives to be used on freight trains through the Tunnel. Freight trains are currently hauled by Class 92 locomotives built specifically for use...

www.railwaygazette.com

Siemens Vectron tested in the Channel Tunnel

EUROPE: A Siemens Vectron AC electric locomotive was tested in the Channel Tunnel on the night of January 25-26. The aim was to test compatibility with Channel Tunnel systems and safety rules, as Eurotunnel hopes that open-access freight operators will be able to use conventional TSI-compliant...

www.railwaygazette.com

Interestingly, the Vectron only needs fitment of TVM and Channel Tunnel-cleared pantographs in order to use the tunnel, according to Siemens. However, homologation for the Vectron (Baureihe 193) in France is not expected until 2024.

Meanwhile, the Prima II has been a bit of a damp squib for Alstom, with Morocco's ONCF being the sole customer for the type.

 

[43096]

Alstom's Prima II and Siemens' Vectron were also tested in the Channel Tunnel back in 2012/2013 respectively.

Prima II tested in the Channel Tunnel

EUROPE: An Alstom Prima II electric locomotive was tested in the Channel Tunnel on the night of September 29-30, with a view to enabling standard locomotives to be used on freight trains through the Tunnel. Freight trains are currently hauled by Class 92 locomotives built specifically for use...

www.railwaygazette.com

Siemens Vectron tested in the Channel Tunnel

EUROPE: A Siemens Vectron AC electric locomotive was tested in the Channel Tunnel on the night of January 25-26. The aim was to test compatibility with Channel Tunnel systems and safety rules, as Eurotunnel hopes that open-access freight operators will be able to use conventional TSI-compliant...

www.railwaygazette.com

Interestingly, the Vectron only needs fitment of TVM and Channel Tunnel-cleared pantographs in order to use the tunnel, according to Siemens. However, homologation for the Vectron (Baureihe 193) in France is not expected until 2024.

Meanwhile, the Prima II has been a bit of a damp squib for Alstom, with Morocco's ONCF being the sole customer for the type.

Alstom's Prima has been singularly unsuccessful in Europe outside France in both its incarnations. Bombardier and Siemens have all but cleaned up the electric loco market with Siemens now having built or have orders for around 1,000 Vectrons.

 

[mackeral1234]

Were these the ones that hauled the Postal TGV up to St Pancras a few years ago?

2 out the Class 0001 were used.

 

[popeter45]

Trafikverket is working on time tables for 2021 and the applications have now been made public. Snälltåget has not applied for any trains to Trelleborg (and the ferries) for 2021 but instead for trains to Pepparholmen (i.e. Denmark). So it seems like the last two passenger train ferries in northern Europe are gone.

They have also applied for capacity for a much longer period:
20210405-20210609 twice weekly
20210611-20210904 daily
20210906-20211003 twice weekly
And in addition a couple of other trains during the rest of the year during Christmas/New Year/December/Easter etc.

And it seems like they also plan to run direct night trains Stockholm-Berlin a few times during the summer.

Alstom's Prima II and Siemens' Vectron were also tested in the Channel Tunnel back in 2012/2013 respectively.

Prima II tested in the Channel Tunnel

EUROPE: An Alstom Prima II electric locomotive was tested in the Channel Tunnel on the night of September 29-30, with a view to enabling standard locomotives to be used on freight trains through the Tunnel. Freight trains are currently hauled by Class 92 locomotives built specifically for use...

www.railwaygazette.com

Siemens Vectron tested in the Channel Tunnel

EUROPE: A Siemens Vectron AC electric locomotive was tested in the Channel Tunnel on the night of January 25-26. The aim was to test compatibility with Channel Tunnel systems and safety rules, as Eurotunnel hopes that open-access freight operators will be able to use conventional TSI-compliant...

www.railwaygazette.com

Interestingly, the Vectron only needs fitment of TVM and Channel Tunnel-cleared pantographs in order to use the tunnel, according to Siemens. However, homologation for the Vectron (Baureihe 193) in France is not expected until 2024.

Meanwhile, the Prima II has been a bit of a damp squib for Alstom, with Morocco's ONCF being the sole customer for the type.

Vectron could really be useful, if the Multi-system version is used then could remove need to replace loco once on French side for trips beyond to Germany and beyond, also 200km/h would be nice when timetabling

 

[43096]

Vectron could really be useful, if the Multi-system version is used then could remove need to replace loco once on French side for trips beyond to Germany and beyond, also 200km/h would be nice when timetabling

Timetabling what? You're not seriously thinking loco-hauled passenger trains are going to run through the tunnel are you?

 

[popeter45]

Timetabling what? You're not seriously thinking loco-hauled passenger trains are going to run through the tunnel are you?

no i mean timing of freight in the early morning when high speed passenger services will be starting to run, no need to wait in passing loops or slowing down passenger services behind it

 

[themiller]

It's unlikely that a loco-hauled service train could be accommodated at St Pancras unless it was top and tailed.

no i mean timing of freight in the early morning when high speed passenger services will be starting to run, no need to wait in passing loops or slowing down passenger services behind it

I don't think any freight stock is allowed to run at 200kph!

 

[Jamesrob637]

I don't think any freight stock is allowed to run at 200kph!

Look up SNCF MVGV200 on YouTube. Very little footage as it ran overnight around ten to fifteen years ago but what footage there is, is great. I think modified nez cassés hauled them on the LGV Sud-Est.

 

[themiller]

Look up SNCF MVGV200 on YouTube. Very little footage as it ran overnight around ten to fifteen years ago but what footage there is, is great. I think modified nez cassés hauled them on the LGV Sud-Est.

I think that, for higher speeds, secondary suspension is required on the freight wagons. This would increase costs (both capital and maintenance) which may not be sustainable in the current market.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I think that, for higher speeds, secondary suspension is required on the freight wagons. This would increase costs (both capital and maintenance) which may not be sustainable in the current market.

I think SNCF took the braking design from 200kmh capable Corail stock for the wagons.

 

[LiftFan]

Haven't they sent a 319 to France before?

 

[_toommm_]

Haven't they sent a 319 to France before?

319008 'Cheriton' and 319009 'Coquelles' travelled on 10/12/93 with an invited party of guests, and went again for the Folkestone 1994 Event 0n 07/05/94 with paying members of public. The pantographs had to be modified prior to the runs though to account for the higher OHLE.

 

[D365]

Haven't they sent a 319 to France before?

From what I have read, it sounds like it was very much a “special occasion” and would not be permissible under normal working.

 

[themiller]

319s don’t count as they’re not locomotives as per the original query!

 

[norbitonflyer]

You're not seriously thinking loco-hauled passenger trains are going to run through the tunnel are you?

The original plans included loco-hauled sleeper services such as Manchester to Paris and London to Cologne. Haulage through the tunnel would have been Class 92. The rolling stock was built, and is now in Canada.

 

[delticdave]

I think that, for higher speeds, secondary suspension is required on the freight wagons. This would increase costs (both capital and maintenance) which may not be sustainable in the current market.

I own an HO scale model (Jouef) of these wagons & the bogie detail shows primary & secondary suspension + disc brakes.

 

[AndyCK]

The original plans included loco-hauled sleeper services such as Manchester to Paris and London to Cologne. Haulage through the tunnel would have been Class 92. The rolling stock was built, and is now in Canada.

I had no idea this was proposed at one time! From Wikipedia:

Nightstar (train) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Nightstar was a proposed overnight sleeper service from various parts of United Kingdom to continental Europe, via the Channel Tunnel. To run alongside the Eurostar and north of London day-time Regional Eurostar services, the Nightstar was the last part in a round-the-clock passenger train utilisation of the Channel Tunnel.

The Nightstar service was to have been operated by European Night Services, a company mostly owned by European Passenger Services (the then-named operator of the Eurostar service).[1]

After rejection of various British ideas for the service that was to become the British Rail Class 373 Eurostar train—which eventually was created from the existing French TGV scaled for a British loading gauge—the Nightstar concept emerged as an individual locomotive-hauled passenger train. While some carriages were built, the project was cancelled in 1997 for lack of commercial viability. Some of the stock was eventually sold to Canada, where it became Via Rail's Renaissance train fleet.

 

[delticdave]

I had no idea this was proposed at one time! From Wikipedia:

Nightstar (train) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

ISTR that 5/6 37's + 3 Mk. 3's converted to generator cars were going to be used on the Diesel-hauled segments of the "provincial" Nightstars & 92's through the tunnel. I've seen pix of a 16 car Nightstar rake on test in Belgium, with 2 e-loks, one to pull the train & the trailing loco providing Head End Power.

VIA Rail Canada eventually purchased the entire fleet, approx 60 complete coaches, all the bodyshels & bogies + 500 containers of components. They are /(were?) used in Eastern Canada on the overnight trains between Montreal & Halifax, & inter-city trains from Montreal to Quebec City / Ottawa. I've had 1 trip each on the inter-city routes, using the 2+1 day-nighter seating cars + a baggage-car built in Canada from sleeping car shells. The difference in UK & N.American loading gauges is quite noticeable.........

 

[themiller]

ISTR that 5/6 37's + 3 Mk. 3's converted to generator cars were going to be used on the Diesel-hauled segments of the "provincial" Nightstars & 92's through the tunnel. I've seen pix of a 16 car Nightstar rake on test in Belgium, with 2 e-loks, one to pull the train & the trailing loco providing Head End Power.

VIA Rail Canada eventually purchased the entire fleet, approx 60 complete coaches, all the bodyshels & bogies + 500 containers of components. They are /(were?) used in Eastern Canada on the overnight trains between Montreal & Halifax, & inter-city trains from Montreal to Quebec City / Ottawa. I've had 1 trip each on the inter-city routes, using the 2+1 day-nighter seating cars + a baggage-car built in Canada from sleeping car shells. The difference in UK & N.American loading gauges is quite noticeable.........

http://kentrail.org.uk/class_37_6_eps.htm shows photos of some of the class 37/6s in EPS (European Passenger Services) 'colours'. 37/6s were also used for hauling class 373 Eurostar sets before they were accepted and put into service. DRS bought at least some of them.

 

[43096]

http://kentrail.org.uk/class_37_6_eps.htm shows photos of some of the class 37/6s in EPS (European Passenger Services) 'colours'. 37/6s were also used for hauling class 373 Eurostar sets before they were accepted and put into service. DRS bought at least some of them.

There were 12 converted, 37601-612 and DRS bought all of them in three stages (37607-612, then 37602/605/606 and finally 37601/603/604).

 

[_toommm_]

http://kentrail.org.uk/class_37_6_eps.htm shows photos of some of the class 37/6s in EPS (European Passenger Services) 'colours'. 37/6s were also used for hauling class 373 Eurostar sets before they were accepted and put into service. DRS bought at least some of them.

This is probably going to sound a stupid question, but I've noticed alongside the grey Class 92s, they have those three rings on the outside. Was that a logo of sorts or did it signify something?

 

[themiller]

This is probably going to sound a stupid question, but I've noticed alongside the grey Class 92s, they have those three rings on the outside. Was that a logo of sorts or did it signify something?

They were supposed to represent the tunnel segments as the train passed through the tunnel. The 37/6s had them as well.

 

[_toommm_]

They were supposed to represent the tunnel segments as the train passed through the tunnel. The 37/6s had them as well.

Ahh fair enough - thanks for that! I think the generator vans for the planned Nightstar?? train had them too IIRC.

 

[popeter45]

Ahh fair enough - thanks for that! I think the generator vans for the planned Nightstar?? train had them too IIRC.

i believe some went to heritage railways for heating and i believe the Generator Vans for the Irish Enterprise train are also ex-Nightstar

 

[_toommm_]

i believe some went to heritage railways for heating and i believe the Generator Vans for the Irish Enterprise train are also ex-Nightstar

And of course the one that now permanently resides at Doncaster Works/West Yard.