What procedures are followed when a person is hit by a train?

[pitdiver]

I was at one time a Station Supervisor on LUL. One Friday evening i had just finished the late turn at my station and was told by my relief that there had been an incident down the line. He told me to meet him on the platform as this was the last Northbound train that night. When I returned the following day I was advised that normal service had not been resumed until about 1130 hrs that morning. Apparently, so I as told the time was spent looking for body parts.

 

[SignallerJohn]

Generally the first thing to happen will be the driver initiating an Emergency Call on the GSMR (in-cab) radio - which alerts the signaller immediately and will also stop other trains in the vicinity. If the driver reports or even suspects "one-under" (as it's often called) then the signaller will in turn be initiating alerts to Network Rail Control, the Train Operating Company Control, British Transport Police, Fleet Engineers, and other emergency services as needed.

Only thing I’d add to that is that when a REC call comes in is that control are automatically patched in so they can alert the necessary services.

However I’ve had incidents where the driver has rang it through as a normal call due to shock.

If you guys haven’t heard what the REC or urgent noises sound like I’d recommend checking them on YouTube, they are quite horrible to hear.

 

[Horizon22]

Grim.

There are also specialist companies like Dignity who come to remove the body. The BTP will be involved in ensuring the site is "clean" (basically searching for all the body parts, a bit grim), determining the incident is non-suspicious and handing the lines back to Network Rail because, at first, its a potential crime scene.

Otherwise @seagull has described the scenario pretty accurately.

 

[mainframe444]

Not to take anything away from the gravity of situations like this, but I had to smile when I visited Hadfield Station once…..

Clearly an instruction went out at some time that all platform ends should have a Samaritans etc sign.

So, at the terminal end of the platform, attached to the fence, is such a sign, of course the trains approach here at 5mph or so and stop well short of the end of the platform…..

 

[AlterEgo]

The thing is, you can try all the things you want to prevent suicides at some locations and hotspots, a desperately motivated suicidal individual will always have his way one way or the other, somewhere else or not.

That's not correct and is one of many myths surrounding suicide. It's been shown that fencing off hotspots and removing access routes at certain places actually does stop some people from committing suicide at all - there was a huge Samaritans campaign about this a few years ago.

Somewhat counterintuitively, taking about suicide and suicide methods increases the population risk of suicide, and does not decrease it.

 

[Horizon22]

That's not correct and is one of many myths surrounding suicide. It's been shown that fencing off hotspots and removing access routes at certain places actually does stop some people from committing suicide at all - there was a huge Samaritans campaign about this a few years ago.

Somewhat counterintuitively, taking about suicide and suicide methods increases the population risk of suicide, and does not decrease it.

Indeed, I've done a Samaritans course and actually suicide can be seen as the tip of an iceberg (or similar analogies); it can just be one particular event (some bad news or even something more trivial) can tip someone over to actually act. Even small barriers to their progression such as platform gates, restricting access to known hotspots or Samaritans signs or a short conversation can deescalate people and increases thinking time which is vital.

 

[AlterEgo]

Indeed, I've done a Samaritans course and actually suicide can be seen as the tip of an iceberg (or similar analogies); it can just be one particular event (some bad news or even something more trivial) can tip someone over to actually act. Even small barriers to their progression such as platform gates, restricting access to known hotspots or Samaritans signs or a short conversation can deescalate people and increases thinking time which is vital.

For a subject which receives an enormous amount of coverage the public understanding of suicide is extremely poor. Many people fear the topic of suicide because it is not rational, and prefer to rationalise the event of suicide as being like the end of a long downward journey, especially with regard to mental health (another topic which has mushroomed in remit, making it unmanageable to discuss). The idea of "mental health > downward spiral > warning signs > suicide attempt" is attractive because it helps people imagine that it is easy to intervene or even recognise the symptoms themselves if they ever became susceptible.

In reality, a lot of people who commit suicide may not have formed a logical, firm ideation which they carry for weeks or months, as you say, but may be completely illogical or transient. Many people also have no mental illness at the time of suicide.

Hotspots are an issue because susceptible people form ideals about their preferred method of suicide, and the success of one person may validate it in the mind of another.

Hence, a fencing intervention, stopping someone killing themselves off the fast lines at Harrow and Wealdstone, will not just prevent a delay to trains but will in the long run actually save lives because many people who find their chosen suicide method to be unavailable actually don't go on to commit suicide at all.

 

[43066]

That's not correct and is one of many myths surrounding suicide. It's been shown that fencing off hotspots and removing access routes at certain places actually does stop some people from committing suicide at all - there was a huge Samaritans campaign about this a few years ago.

Somewhat counterintuitively, taking about suicide and suicide methods increases the population risk of suicide, and does not decrease it.

Something we could do with talking about a lot more as a society is how people get to the stage of being suidical in the first place, and the wider picture of mental health. Particularly the mental health of men who make up the overwhelming number of victims.

Indeed, I've done a Samaritans course and actually suicide can be seen as the tip of an iceberg (or similar analogies); it can just be one particular event (some bad news or even something more trivial) can tip someone over to actually act. Even small barriers to their progression such as platform gates, restricting access to known hotspots or Samaritans signs or a short conversation can deescalate people and increases thinking time which is vital.

Fencing off little used fast line platforms is now common practice. It would be possible for a determined individual to scale these fences, or simply use another platform, but nevertheless they do have a measurable impact.

 

[Highlandspring]

There are also specialist companies like Dignity who come to remove the body. The BTP will be involved in ensuring the site is "clean" (basically searching for all the body parts, a bit grim), determining the incident is non-suspicious and handing the lines back to Network Rail because, at first, its a potential crime scene.

As per my earlier post, Dignity has the contract with Network Rail and subcontracts the collection of the body to local funeral directors who are not allowed on the infrastructure. Dignity is called by the Network Rail National Operations Centre in Milton Keynes, who also liaise with the BTP Force Control Room to get the incident categorised as quickly as possible. As an aside I've always wondered why the railway is responsible for arranging removal of the body from their property whereas if someone hung themselves from a tree in your garden you wouldn't be expected to sort it yourself but it'd be dealt with entirely by the police/Coroner/Procurator Fiscal. Incidentally the railway uses the same process where a person dies on the infrastructure but not as a result of being hit by a train, e.g. where someone dies on board a train, jumps off a bridge or hangs themselves (both of which are surprisingly common).

The site is only a potential crime scene if the BTP categorisation based on the driver's initial account points that way. Categorisation usually takes place very quickly once the duty Inspector has reviewed the information from the fatality hotline and from evidence at the scene. It's a nightmare when it's categorised as unexplained or suspicious but thankfully it doesn't happen very often.

 

[TRAX]

That's not correct and is one of many myths surrounding suicide. It's been shown that fencing off hotspots and removing access routes at certain places actually does stop some people from committing suicide at all - there was a huge Samaritans campaign about this a few years ago.

Somewhat counterintuitively, taking about suicide and suicide methods increases the population risk of suicide, and does not decrease it.

I am very happy to be corrected on these grounds.

 

[Horizon22]

.

As per my earlier post, Dignity has the contract with Network Rail and subcontracts the collection of the body to local funeral directors who are not allowed on the infrastructure. Dignity is called by the Network Rail National Operations Centre in Milton Keynes, who also liaise with the BTP Force Control Room to get the incident categorised as quickly as possible. As an aside I've always wondered why the railway is responsible for arranging removal of the body from their property whereas if someone hung themselves from a tree in your garden you wouldn't be expected to sort it yourself but it'd be dealt with entirely by the police/Coroner/Procurator Fiscal. Incidentally the railway uses the same process where a person dies on the infrastructure but not as a result of being hit by a train, e.g. where someone dies on board a train, jumps off a bridge or hangs themselves (both of which are surprisingly common).

The site is only a potential crime scene if the BTP categorisation based on the driver's initial account points that way. Categorisation usually takes place very quickly once the duty Inspector has reviewed the information from the fatality hotline and from evidence at the scene. It's a nightmare when it's categorised as unexplained or suspicious but thankfully it doesn't happen very often.

I never realised Dignity weren't allowed on infrastructure and/or presumed they remained close to the boundary. Thanks for clarifying.

Agreed about the categorisation. I've only had to deal with this being unexplained once and it was an exceptionally prolonged process, maybe double the time it would normally take to return to normal working. It was because station staff had witnessed some of the prelude to the incident that it became initially suspicious. As you say, 99% of the time its a relatively quick categorisation.

 

[a_c_skinner]

fencing off hotspots and removing access routes at certain places actually does stop some people from committing suicide

Indeed. It is why over the counter paracetamol and aspirin are limited. The act for many is impulsive and collecting "enough" takes people past the impulse.

 

[Horizon22]

Indeed. It is why over the counter paracetamol and aspirin are limited. The act for many is impulsive and collecting "enough" takes people past the impulse.

And why decades ago those same drugs changed from open screw caps to individual blister packs.

 

[jon0844]

The thing is, you can try all the things you want to prevent suicides at some locations and hotspots, a desperately motivated suicidal individual will always have his way one way or the other, somewhere else or not.

Often someone can be 'snapped out of it' and not have suicidal thoughts again, so any intervention is worthwhile. Anyone can do it too. Sometimes just saying 'Hello' can be all it takes. By doing so, you get a better chance to identify their frame of mind.

Fencing to close off some lines is now quite common, and often these have unlocked gates for access, which might sound crazy - but it still creates a barrier (as well as helping staff identify a potential issue if someone is on the other side when there might not be a booked call for some time).

 

[AlphaHotel]

What else can Network Rail and TOC do to prevent such things?

Slower line speeds when coming into stations (as a fast train that is) to potentially 10mph, this could deter people in a sense of "its not fast enough, so its not worth it's mindset (im not a doctor so I dont know the ins and outs of suicidal states however for me that would be a deterrent.

 

[fgwrich]

There are also specialist companies like Dignity who come to remove the body. The BTP will be involved in ensuring the site is "clean" (basically searching for all the body parts, a bit grim), determining the incident is non-suspicious and handing the lines back to Network Rail because, at first, its a potential crime scene.

Otherwise @seagull has described the scenario pretty accurately.

BTP Will assist in the search and recovery of all body parts before placing them into the bag ready for dignity to remove. I have seen some sights, and I'm sorry to say some parts, which will live with me forever.

In all honesty, I'm not sure which is the hardest part of the job. Attending a fatality and seeing the sites that we see, or having to go around to a persons house to deliver the message. For obvious reasons, you will not be an officer who has attended the fatality but will rely on the messages and information passed across by your colleagues who are trackside.

 

[TheEdge]

In reality, a lot of people who commit suicide may not have formed a logical, firm ideation which they carry for weeks or months, as you say, but may be completely illogical or transient. Many people also have no mental illness at the time of suicide.

I've been there once and thankfully snapped myself out of it. A very dark time a few years ago and I was stood on a German station platform waiting for a train and heard a BR182 accelerating towards the station making its very distinctive noise. I remember standing up, walking to the platform edge and thinking "this wont hurt at all". Thankfully something snapped me out of that and I took myself to a safe location to deal with those thoughts and talk to a close friend asap. They had never happened before and never happened since but it still scares me to this day how so so close I was.

 

[AntoniC]

I've been there once and thankfully snapped myself out of it. A very dark time a few years ago and I was stood on a German station platform waiting for a train and heard a BR182 accelerating towards the station making its very distinctive noise. I remember standing up, walking to the platform edge and thinking "this wont hurt at all". Thankfully something snapped me out of that and I took myself to a safe location to deal with those thoughts and talk to a close friend asap. They had never happened before and never happened since but it still scares me to this day how so so close I was.

Thank you for your honesty in saying this, because I have been there myself.
March 2001 I was suffering with work induced stress and had got myself so mentally occupied with work issues that I stood on the platform of Bootle Oriel Road station , looking at a train that was pulling into the staion (on the way to Southport) and I SERIOUSLY thought that the best way for me to resolve the situation was for me to commit suicide by jumping in front of the train.
I then though that "No I am NOT going to let the b******s win and changed my mind - it did take me 6 months to recover from my suicidal thoughts (with the support of my GP and family) before I returned to work and thankfully since then I have not suffered again.

 

[172007]

Only thing I’d add to that is that when a REC call comes in is that control are automatically patched in so they can alert the necessary services.

However I’ve had incidents where the driver has rang it through as a normal call due to shock.

If you guys haven’t heard what the REC or urgent noises sound like I’d recommend checking them on YouTube, they are quite horrible to hear.

Does not need to be a Rec. Yellow priority is just as useful as long as long as the "This is an Emerg........" is used. No point in a rec if you are on a single line and causing loads of trains to stop on nearby main lines etc; Stoke Works to Droitwich for example.

 

[MML-Ben]

Only thing I’d add to that is that when a REC call comes in is that control are automatically patched in so they can alert the necessary services.

However I’ve had incidents where the driver has rang it through as a normal call due to shock.

If you guys haven’t heard what the REC or urgent noises sound like I’d recommend checking them on YouTube, they are quite horrible to hear.

What do I actually have to search for on YouTube to hear these?

 

[172007]

What do I actually have to search for on YouTube to hear these?

Search for GSM-R emergency call. A lot of it is from the Signallers perspective and so far not found the sound a driver receives.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

I understand that some ('many'?) people try to take their lives, but survive, seriously injured. They may live many more years, permanently disabled. Maybe this could be mentioned more often, it could have a deterrent effect.

 

[AlterEgo]

I've been there once and thankfully snapped myself out of it. A very dark time a few years ago and I was stood on a German station platform waiting for a train and heard a BR182 accelerating towards the station making its very distinctive noise. I remember standing up, walking to the platform edge and thinking "this wont hurt at all". Thankfully something snapped me out of that and I took myself to a safe location to deal with those thoughts and talk to a close friend asap. They had never happened before and never happened since but it still scares me to this day how so so close I was.

Good to hear you were snapped out of it!

I'm generally cynical of schemes like the Samaritans/Network Rail "have an intervention conversation" stuff - all seemed a little fluffy to me - but having studied and read quite a bit about people who have similar stories to you I've been convinced it's a very good idea and has saved more lives than many other railway safety initiatives.

 

[i4n]

Often someone can be 'snapped out of it' and not have suicidal thoughts again, so any intervention is worthwhile. Anyone can do it too. Sometimes just saying 'Hello' can be all it takes.

Going off topic (sorry), I've done just that. Spotted someone pacing around at the end of the platform many years ago so wandered up to them and just did a 'hello, weather is pants tonight isn't it, fancy a chat?' type thing and we chatted about rubbish for a few minutes and they walked off out of the station with a 'thank you'.

 

[TRAX]

I understand that some ('many'?) people try to take their lives, but survive, seriously injured. They may live many more years, permanently disabled. Maybe this could be mentioned more often, it could have a deterrent effect.

I think you are quite right. Sometimes it seems the word "death" is used so much it loses its value. Hence why the London Underground has "risk of life-changing injuries" instead of "danger of death" on signs near its tracks.

 

[zwk500]

I understand that some ('many'?) people try to take their lives, but survive, seriously injured. They may live many more years, permanently disabled. Maybe this could be mentioned more often, it could have a deterrent effect.

It is mentioned, although it has to be handled sensitively for the victim themselves, but also relatives of other victims who didn't survive.

 

[furnessvale]

Slower line speeds when coming into stations (as a fast train that is) to potentially 10mph, this could deter people in a sense of "its not fast enough, so its not worth it's mindset (im not a doctor so I dont know the ins and outs of suicidal states however for me that would be a deterrent.

I presume this is tongue in cheek. An even better suggestion is to stop running all trains.

I believe the suicide rate in front of moving trains on Christmas day is quite low.

 

[Dave W]

Going off topic (sorry), I've done just that. Spotted someone pacing around at the end of the platform many years ago so wandered up to them and just did a 'hello, weather is pants tonight isn't it, fancy a chat?' type thing and we chatted about rubbish for a few minutes and they walked off out of the station with a 'thank you'.

I was at Finsbury Park last summer and, as a creature of habit, I took up a position at the north end of the platform, mainly to have a look at the various web of points and crossings. Not long after, a young staff member sheepishly approached and very gently asked if I was alright, and if so, would I mind moving back towards the main part of the station as some drivers were worried by people stood at isolated ends of platforms.

I had no real reason to be there other than that I was an enthusiast, it was far from the madding crowd and I like my own company when travelling, so of course I complied, but I was rather touched by the treatment and contacted Great Northern to greatly encourage it. Such an approach might well give several people a chance to "think again".

 

[pompeyfan]

The noise that goes off in control rooms and signal boxes is similar to the Star Trek red alert klaxon. I’m not sure what noise a driver receives though.

 

[Sunset route]

For a train driver it’s got to be the worst thing in the world to see hear and then deal with, so I could even imagine what that feels like. As a signaller of over 30 years with 20 of them in a multi Panel Signalling Centre having that emergency call (CSR) now REC call GSMR is one of the worst things that happens to a signaller. In the place I work we have 16 signallers and SSMs on duty and usually very loud and boisterous with banter, but as soon as that REC call alarm goes off you could hear a pin drop, then you look to see who’s got the RED screen on their GRMR terminal. Even

though they taught/reach you the protocols when they switched from CSR to GSMR many years ago now and at signalling school for new entrants, nothing really teachers you on how to deal with that first panicked radio conversation with the train driver (that’s assuming that all the other drivers not involved with the actual incident are not pressing their own speech button and interfering with the REC call), as there no realistic simulation that the company (railway) has comes up with that helps the signallers in the approach that we need. So it’s all down to an individual on how well you manage what is at the start an out of control event. Barring in mind that on your own area of control as well as the train involved you could have up to another 10 trains or more on the other running lines as well as the REC broadcast will go intro adjacent panels within your own location and the fringe signalling centres/boxes.

Some of our signallers are really good in such circumstances because of either personality or due to the fact that they have dealt with so many over the years that they have become well versed and it has been known that some of these individuals have left their own Panel and taken over the REC call from an overwhelmed new and not so new signaller, such is the beast of the REC call.

Being a long term depression sufferer who been to a few dark places and being a signaller I’ve seen both sides of this particular fence and neither is pleasant.