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What replacement stock should Northern use as a result of the problems with CAF units?

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Fisherman80

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Moderator Note: Posts #1 - #9 originally in this thread

Possibly time for Northern to get every available off lease Class 153 into service by the May timetable change as some kind of cover for the 195s?

Caf should also pay for the leasing of these units too.
 
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Fisherman80

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Carnt blame Northern for this one,although they should be looking around the country for spare stock.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Carnt blame Northern for this one,although they should be looking around the country for spare stock.
It's a shame they cannot use the many ex EMR and WMT 153s lying about off-lease. A train with no disabled toilet is better than no train at all, and they would be coupled to 150/156/158s no?
 

warwickshire

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Possibly time for Northern to get every available off lease Class 153 into service by the May timetable change as some kind of cover for the 195s?

Caf should also pay for the leasing of these units too.
Agree they shouldn't be taking any off lease anyway.
Furthermore they shouldn't have run before they could jump.
And not rushed by withdrawal off some off the non wheelset affected Pacers.
However northern do need to look around and see what could be used. Especially the many off lease 153 stored at burton nemesis Depot etc .
 

Killingworth

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Carnt blame Northern for this one,although they should be looking around the country for spare stock.

By 13th May I'd have thought Covid relaxations would allow some doubled up units to be reduced, never mind getting a few 153s lined up for dispensations.
 

LOL The Irony

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It's a shame they cannot use the many ex EMR and WMT 153s lying about off-lease. A train with no disabled toilet is better than no train at all, and they would be coupled to 150/156/158s no?
That's essentially just giving you more carriages, not more trains. I suppose they could book the services to use a compliant unit and then that unit suffer a "failure" that gets "fixed" and winds up on another diagram but they'd be caught pretty quickly if they even tried pulling that sort of shenanigans.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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That's essentially just giving you more carriages, not more trains. I suppose they could book the services to use a compliant unit and then that unit suffer a "failure" that gets "fixed" and winds up on another diagram but they'd be caught pretty quickly if they even tried pulling that sort of shenanigans.
There are plenty of double 150s, a 153 could replace one of the 150 units that could then run in place of a withdrawn 195 instead of the service being cancelled. That 150 could also have a 153 added.
 

AMD

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It's a shame they cannot use the many ex EMR and WMT 153s lying about off-lease. A train with no disabled toilet is better than no train at all, and they would be coupled to 150/156/158s no?
There is an issue with traincrew with 153s as on the west side only Victoria and Blackburn sign them now, so that limits they're potential useage - it creates a higher risk of cancellation if you start sticking them out in the hope that someone trained will be working them.

There is also a knock on effect rippling through with the late transfer of the WM 323s and EMR 156s that were due to come to Northern.
 
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Fisherman80

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That's essentially just giving you more carriages, not more trains. I suppose they could book the services to use a compliant unit and then that unit suffer a "failure" that gets "fixed" and winds up on another diagram but they'd be caught pretty quickly if they even tried pulling that sort of shenanigans.
Having 153s would free up trains. If let's say a Leeds to Carlisle service is booked for a pair of 2 car 158s,use a 3 car 158 with a 153 instead of the 2 car 158s.
 
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The Planner

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Where are the broken 195s being kept? their normal stabling points? all well and good saying Northern should be getting stock in to cover, but where are they keeping them?
 

Fisherman80

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How a non compliant 143 running with a compliant Sprinter! They would free up trains I'm sure,but then again it's just a pipe dream!
 

Fisherman80

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or nightmare!!!!!!!!
........if it frees up PRM units to cover for the 195s I'd be happy with that! Apart from 153s,I'm not sure what Northern can scavenge DMU wise where drivers and guards are fully trained up.
 

317 forever

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Any withdrawn 319s not yet scrapped could be suitable short-term replacements for 331s. While fewer people are traveeling 4 carriages would be sufficient in place of the current 6 carriages.

I also thought of 365s but these might not be practical as few if any crews have been trained to work these.
 

skyhigh

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Any withdrawn 319s not yet scrapped could be suitable short-term replacements for 331s. While fewer people are traveeling 4 carriages would be sufficient in place of the current 6 carriages.

I also thought of 365s but these might not be practical as few if any crews have been trained to work these.
It's a nice round number trained on 365s. Precisely 0 ;)

How a non compliant 143 running with a compliant Sprinter! They would free up trains I'm sure,but then again it's just a pipe dream!
This came up in a previous thread on this topic. There's no chance pacers are coming back.
 

Purple Orange

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323s and 319s. But are the CAF units completely useless? Surely in that event a new order for EMU and Bi-modes should be on the cards, rather than do the enthusiasts favourite option and have a mish mash of old trains recycled.
 

southern442

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323s and 319s. But are the CAF units completely useless?
The problem is certainly fixable. Although another class of CAF unit only lasted 20 years in service and these ones have had a major problem uncovered, perhaps this will leave a question mark over the idea of a full CAF fleet replacement.
 

randyrippley

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There is an issue with traincrew with 153s as on the west side only Victoria and Blackburn sign them now, so that limits they're potential useage - it creates a higher risk of cancellation if you start sticking them out in the hope that someone trained will be working them.

There is also a knock on effect rippling through with the late transfer of the WM 323s and EMR 156s that were due to come to Northern.
Could you get round that by inserting a 153 into the middle of a 150, so only the 150 cabs are used?
 

skyhigh

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Could you get round that by inserting a 153 into the middle of a 150, so only the 150 cabs are used?
No. It's not just the cabs, it's the equipment locations on the unit, fault finding, handling characteristics and more. If it's anywhere in the formation the crew need to sign it.
 
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