What service changes and infrastructure improvements would you suggest for the MML?

[cle]

Moderator note: split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/mml-electrification.110445/page-104#post-4200266

News from the Midlands Engine Front...
View attachment 68435
The grey line (representing MML Electrification) is shown now to be extended north from Market Harborough to Derby & Nottingham, presumably also Clay Cross to Sheffield as part of HS2 Conventional Compatible Services. Looks like the mothballs are being removed!

The Bedford-Leeds service is interesting - as we all wrangle with what to do with Bedford, having an hourly (?) long distance train starting from there to the North is another challenge for the station itself. But wires to Derby and Nottingham (and Toton crucially) are good to see.

If EWR was being wired, it might have begun back at Reading/Oxford, or even Cambridge. Could be useful. Cambridge to ECML is always mentioned as an important gap.

Funny how Bedford and MML stops to Leeds is future viable, but the Rio service (including Luton) to Manchester is derided. Which offers a bigger demand draw at northern and southern ends, plus competition and new pairs (Derby already has Leeds, no Manchester).

 

[edwin_m]

The Bedford-Leeds service is interesting - as we all wrangle with what to do with Bedford, having an hourly (?) long distance train starting from there to the North is another challenge for the station itself. But wires to Derby and Nottingham (and Toton crucially) are good to see.

If EWR was being wired, it might have begun back at Reading/Oxford, or even Cambridge. Could be useful. Cambridge to ECML is always mentioned as an important gap.

Funny how Bedford and MML stops to Leeds is future viable, but the Rio service (including Luton) to Manchester is derided. Which offers a bigger demand draw at northern and southern ends, plus competition and new pairs (Derby already has Leeds, no Manchester).

Bedford to Leeds is mentioned because it could take advantage of HS2 infrastructure north of Toton, but Bedford to Manchester couldn't. This also means it wouldn't go through Derby. There's probably not going to be a north-east connection to EWR in the Bedford area so it's unlikely to continue towards Cambridge.

 

[richieb1971]

A northern train to Leeds from Bedford would be most welcome.

I stated about 2 years ago that Bedford could be a terminus from the north. It would fill a gap, put Bedford connectivity back and give Bedford passengers first choice on seats in both directions.

 

[londonmidland]

A northern destination beyond Sheffield would be welcome, be it Leeds or Manchester*

Where it can start from is another question.

(Bar the very few direct service to/from Leeds we already have)

 

[GRALISTAIR]

A northern destination beyond Sheffield would be welcome, be it Leeds or Manchester*

Where it can start from is another question.

(Bar the very few direct service to/from Leeds we already have)

Or even York?

 

[edwin_m]

[quoting posts still in the MML thread]

I was thinking with a reversal at Bedford. Who knows what that station will look like?!

Indeed. Some but not all of the EWR route options would allow it, but in my view those ones are less likely to happen.

Would the Bedford-Leeds be on classic compatible stock then, to use the HS2 tracks to the fullest?

It would have to be "HS2 compatible" in some way, probably the same sort of stock NPR would use - 140mph or perhaps a bit more and would need moveable steps if it needed to use any HS2 platforms (which for this service it probably wouldn't).

Not sure it’d fill an hourly train, with just Bedford and Leicester (basically) demand to/from Leeds. Bedford is not a particularly important place.

It would probably stop at Kettering, Wellingborough and Market Harborough too, but I agree the section south of Leicester might struggle to get enough passengers.

Why wouldn't Bedford passengers change onto the ECML at Sandy on EWR?

It's unlikely long-distance ECML services would stop at Sandy just for EWR interchange. Passengers from Cambridge would probably be just as quick on the existing route via Peterborough, and there wouldn't be enough people to/from Bedford and the other stations to make a connecting stop worthwhile. A train between Bedford and Leeds using HS2 north of Sheffield would probably be quicker than changing at Sandy even if Leeds services stopped there.

 

[Aictos]

Could always extend both Sheffield’s to Leeds but with alternate stopping patterns in much the same way that the LNER services to Leeds operate however that would depend on if there is any paths available between Sheffield and Leeds?

Failing that a hourly Sheffield extended to Leeds would be acceptable as a all day service and not just in the peaks which would give direct links between Leeds, Sheffield and Derby.

The hourly Sheffield extended to Leeds would be the fast one.

Also while we’re at it, why don’t we also wire up Corby to Leicester as a diversionary route as if that was done, it would make electrifying Peterborough to Oakham and Leicester to Birmingham that much more of a stronger business case.