What steps would a multi millionaire need to take to start driving trains on the mainline?

[Egg Centric]

Suppose a multi-millionaire rail enthusiast wants to take their train simulator enthusiasm to a next level and start driving real trains on the real railway (preserved lines are out because 25mph just doesn't cut it and besides said enthusiast wants the thrill of flying through stations at 90mph+ with passengers standing just behind the yellow line).

How do they go about this? Let's say as an example they want to regularly go about driving a class 37* with a rake of 6 mk3s between Kilmarnock and Skipton. I've chosen those stations because there is a credible bit of WCML action, the entire S&C which surely every multi-millionaire enthusiast fancies a go on, and also sidings at each end to sit in and have Prince Andrew over to your private consist or whatever it is bored multi millionaires do.

Things I know they need:

1. Locomotive + Coaches (assume that is the easy part)
2. Route Knowledge (how?)
3. Pay for track charges (how?)
4. Get paths (how?)
5. Some kind of general sign off akin to a driving licence (how?)
6. Piles of paperwork (what and how?)
7. Lots of other things I don't know about (what and how?) (maybe duplicate of 6).

For clarity I am not a multi-millionaire, otherwise, I would have already done this. However, if hypothetically I were, who would I approach to figure out 1-7? I ask because I am getting better at choosing lottery numbers every week and intend to be in this position shortly.

*I realised after posting this than a class 37 doesn't do 90mph legally but ignore that

 

[diffident]

For most of this Mr Egg, I refer you to the music mogul of Pete Waterman who has over the years done exactly all of that!

 

[skyhigh]

For most of this Mr Egg, I refer you to the music mogul of Pete Waterman who has over the years done exactly all of that!

He doesn't drive though, as far as I'm aware.

You'd need to pass the psychometrics as any other driver (even with millions to spend there is no guarantee you'd pass and you still only get 2 lives). You'd need a full certified rules course and traction knowledge. You'd need someone else to keep track of competency and standards. Effectively you'd have to start a full TOC to be able to do it.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I'm sure qualified footplate staff will be able to answer better, but I'd posit that the very first thing to do would be to take a medical. I'm pretty sure, for example, if your billionaire is colour blind, he might as well stop dreaming immediately (but maybe I'm going on old rules).

Also, there may be different conditions for driving accompanied or unaccompanied by a footplate inspector (or whatever they are called these days).

 

[pdeaves]

You would need an operating licence (contact ORR); a track access contract (NR, then needs approval from ORR); bid for the paths you want (NR, possibly in conjunction with other TOCs if a bit of give-and-take is needed to get everything to fit); plus a load more stuff!

 

[zwk500]

By far the easiest way would be to become heavily involved with an existing Charter TOC. They are set up for operating all over the country, and are desperate for money. However the qualifications to drive on the mainline will still need to be gained on merit, however much funding you provide.

If you wanted to do it from scratch, there's a hell of a lot more than just 6 steps. Some of them are 1-time deals, some need renewing on a regular basis and some need doing every time you run a train. To list everything I'm aware of here would be a very long post, though.

 

[TheEdge]

He doesn't drive though, as far as I'm aware.

You'd need to pass the psychometrics as any other driver (even with millions to spend there is no guarantee you'd pass and you still only get 2 lives). You'd need a full certified rules course and traction knowledge. You'd need someone else to keep track of competency and standards. Effectively you'd have to start a full TOC to be able to do it.

Are the psychometric tests an actual requirement and a pass needs to be given to the ORR before they issue your driving license or are they just a nationally agreed sifting system?

 

[Eccles1983]

They are a national standard requirement. A record of which is held by the ORR and forms the basis of the licence application.

The examiner has to be verified as well. Not a tick in the box thing.

 

[snowball]

One or two events that have merited RAIB's attention seem to have involved people from the preserved rail scene who may have regarded the railway as a bit like a toy train set. There was the near miss at Wootton Bassett Junction and a Class 47 SPAD at Stafford.

 

[skyhigh]

Are the psychometric tests an actual requirement and a pass needs to be given to the ORR before they issue your driving license or are they just a nationally agreed sifting system?

I was of the understanding that a pass at the national level was a requirement (with higher standards being a sifting system for the TOC)

 

[redbutton]

If they just wanted a few one-off drives, I'm pretty sure all they would need is a willing TOC (does WCR still hire Drivers on zero-hours contracts?) to take them on as a "trainee" who can then drive under instruction.

I don't even think they would need any actual training or qualifications, legally speaking, because the instructor remains officially in charge of the train.

Even as a full-time trainee driver employed by a franchised TOC, I had my first drive in passenger service five days in, with my only training up to that point being a freshly-laminated PTS card. (About 10 years ago)

 

[Egg Centric]

That does seem the easiest solution. Perhaps even buy WCR (is it even profitable? probably not worth all that much?) to ensure that I can be a perpetual trainee.

Friday's jackpot is £104 million. I'll keep you all updated.

 

[zwk500]

That does seem the easiest solution. Perhaps even buy WCR (is it even profitable? probably not worth all that much?) to ensure that I can be a perpetual trainee.

Friday's jackpot is £104 million. I'll keep you all updated.

The owner of West Coast will not be selling the company any time soon.

 

[Eccles1983]

If they just wanted a few one-off drives, I'm pretty sure all they would need is a willing TOC (does WCR still hire Drivers on zero-hours contracts?) to take them on as a "trainee" who can then drive under instruction.

I don't even think they would need any actual training or qualifications, legally speaking, because the instructor remains officially in charge of the train.

Even as a full-time trainee driver employed by a franchised TOC, I had my first drive in passenger service five days in, with my only training up to that point being a freshly-laminated PTS card. (About 10 years ago)

Nowadays that is simply impossible, and grounds for the companies safety certificate being ripped up. I did it without licence like you but it is a lot stricter now.

No one can drive on network rail infrastructure without holding a licence issued by the ORR. This is covered under the TDLCR.

The medical requirement is built into this. A part of the licensing process is affirming who carried out the psychometrics, medical and initial training.

 

[redbutton]

Nowadays that is simply impossible, and grounds for the companies safety certificate being ripped up. I did it without licence like you but it is a lot stricter now.

No one can drive on network rail infrastructure without holding a licence issued by the ORR. This is covered under the TDLCR.

The medical requirement is built into this. A part of the licensing process is affirming who carried out the psychometrics, medical and initial training.

Is it not still the case that trainees get their ORR (formerly EU) licences after they finish their training and get their key? How do they drive under instruction if they need to be licensed to do so?

 

[skyhigh]

Is it not still the case that trainees get their ORR (formerly EU) licences after they finish their training and get their key? How do they drive under instruction if they need to be licensed to do so?

At our TOC all trainees are not allowed to drive on the mainline until they have a licence.

 

[Eccles1983]

Is it not still the case that trainees get their ORR (formerly EU) licences after they finish their training and get their key? How do they drive under instruction if they need to be licensed to do so?

The licence is applied for on completion of Part A training.

They can drive as it is in process, and they will have a licence number. The rules got tightened up around 2017

 

[ComUtoR]

Is it not still the case that trainees get their ORR (formerly EU) licences after they finish their training and get their key? How do they drive under instruction if they need to be licensed to do so?

At our TOC all trainees are not allowed to drive on the mainline until they have a licence.

The licence is applied for on completion of Part A training.

They can drive as it is in process, and they will have a licence number. The rules got tightened up around 2017

Taken from the TDLCR (Train Driving Licence and Certification and Regulations) : https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/724/part/2

(12) A person who is training to be train driver (“the trainee driver”) may drive a train without being authorised to do so by a train driving licence and a train driving certificate provided that an authorised driver—

(a)accompanies and supervises the trainee driver in the cab whilst the trainee driver drives the train, and

(b)complies with the requirements of paragraph (5) as if the authorised driver was the driver of the train.

(13) Subject to paragraph (14), in paragraph (12) “authorised driver” means a train driver who is authorised to drive the train by a train driving licence and a train driving certificate issued by the railway undertaking, or infrastructure manager, for whom the train is driven relating to the type of train driven and the infrastructure driven on.

Under "when you can apply" from the ORR guidance document : https://www.orr.gov.uk/guidance-com...iance/train-driving-licences-and-certificates

2.8 Trainee drivers are permitted under the TDLCR to drive trains during their training as long as they are supervised in the cab by an authorised driver holding both a valid train driving licence and certificate for the routes and rolling stock for which they are supervising the trainee and the train operator has also notified the infrastructure manger that driver training is being carried out. We recommend that applications for a licence should only be submitted once the train operator is satisfied that the trainee driver has met the requirements in 2.4 above. The licence can only be issued to the driver when all required conditions are met.

2.4 There are five conditions that a train driver must meet in order to obtain a licence:
● Be at least 20 years old;
● Have completed at least nine years of education (primary and secondary);
● Successfully completed training equivalent to level 3 (this is currently achieved through the TDL initial training programme)
● Pass the required medical examination as defined in schedule 1;
● Pass the occupational psychological fitness examination;
● Pass the general professional competence examination.

2.9 The general professional competence, medical and occupational psychological fitness examinations needed to get a licence will be assessed through driver selection and training. This allows the train operator to apply for a licence and to continue the trainee driver’s detailed rolling stock and infrastructure training that is necessary to be issued with a certificate, while waiting for the licence to arrive. This will help to avoid delays in trainees being able to commence train-driving duties

From how I read that. The Trainee is allowed to drive without a licence until they then meet all '5' requirements; which includes passing as competent. The licence is then applied for (As all requirements have been met) and then they are allowed to drive so that they can get routes/traction etc for the Certificate portion. I know in reality this will differ greatly between TOCs and how the training is carried out.

I don't know when my TOC applies for the licence but they are never issued until they have passed out. It wouldn't be valid otherwise, even if it is sitting in a drawer in the office. Either way, A licence is not required for a Trainee.

 

[greatkingrat]

2.4 There are five conditions that a train driver must meet in order to obtain a licence:
● Be at least 20 years old;
● Have completed at least nine years of education (primary and secondary);
● Successfully completed training equivalent to level 3 (this is currently achieved through the TDL initial training programme)
● Pass the required medical examination as defined in schedule 1;
● Pass the occupational psychological fitness examination;
● Pass the general professional competence examination.

I see the ability to count is obviously not one of the required qualifications!