What to do? Passengers on train talking about not having valid tickets

[Bantamzen]

I've tipped off the TOC on Twitter. What they want to do with it is their business.

This is what I would have done, discreetly notifiedy the TOC. As you say its up to them to act on it or not.

What I mean by the last bit is that if you cause harm or trouble to somebody else, it may come back to bite you some day (bad karma for you).

Do good unto others and good will come to you

So letting people get away Scott free with fare evasion whilst others pay when they should, and effectively pay for those evaders is "doing good"? The mind boggles. Consider this, every one of those fare evaders is revenue lost which eventually will translate itself into fare increases that you will have to pay. Doesn't sound quite so "good" now, does it?

Quite honestly reading some of the comments on this & other threads, you can almost sympathise with the tougher stances TOCs take on evasion. There really is a culture of chancers in this country, little wonder everything seems to cost more than many other places!

 

[al78]

What does that mean?

It means if you grass on them and they find out it was you, they might decide to inflict their own version of revenge on you in the form of smashing your face in.

It ought to be possible to alert the train manager anonymously if you feel the need to do the morally right thing. As the saying goes, the way for evil to triumph is for good people to sit back and do nothing, and if people don't get called out on bad behaviour, they will develop an entitlement attitude to be able to get away with it unchallenged in future.

 

[weastebusdepot]

They wanted to ask me questions about the train so they started prodding at my arm to get my attention.

You could have told them the train isn't going to wherever it is they want to go and they should get off at the next station and wait for the one behind!

 

[greyman42]

It means if you grass on them and they find out it was you, they might decide to inflict their own version of revenge on you in the form of smashing your face in.

If they do that, there is a good chance that they will end up in prison.

 

[TUC]

The train is quite long and quite crowded, so I don't want to get up and look for a member of staff in case my seat is grabbed. Is there a way I can alert on-board staff?

Just leave something on your seat .
Same as if you were going to the toilet.

 

[glasgowtripper]

I’m confused Why would you bother? Far too much effort when lounging in first class. It’s they’re responsibility to travel with a valid ticket... I hope the guard moved them on or issued the relevant fine. Agree with the previous post; snitches get stitches.

 

[Intermodal]

Leave the staff to do their job. If you had told the train manager I have no doubt they would've internally rolled their eyes. They have a list of priorities and clearly checking tickets was not the priority at that moment and it would not become it even if you had told them of a fare evader. They see fare evaders on every single train they work and will not get excited about the prospect of it one bit.

 

[Esker-pades]

I’m confused Why would you bother? Far too much effort when lounging in first class. It’s they’re responsibility to travel with a valid ticket... I hope the guard moved them on or issued the relevant fine. Agree with the previous post; snitches get stitches.

Point of principle? I want to deter fare evasion, especially the "chance it" group, which are easier to deter than the more organised type.

<sarcasm>
I'm glad we've not got beyond playground slanging. I've not heard "snitches get stitches" since the lower part of secondary school, but I'm glad we've gone back to it. I hope to see another one soon.
</sarcasm>

 

[Mag_seven]

Agree with the previous post; snitches get stitches.

I suppose if you came home and found your house burgled, and the neighbours had seen it being burgled but did not report it, you would be quite happy with that?

 

[IanD]

<sarcasm>
I'm glad we've not got beyond playground slanging. I've not heard "snitches get stitches" since the lower part of secondary school, but I'm glad we've gone back to it. I hope to see another one soon.
</sarcasm>

Totally agree. What a ridiculous comment to make in the first place and then even more so to repeat it like some playground bully.

Snitches or as more mature people call them "Whistleblowers" or "informants" are responsible for a great deal of good in this day and age and should be applauded not threatened with serious physical violence. I begrudge having to pay extra for everything, not juts train tickets, to make up for the pilfering and dishonesty of others so if the OP wants the blow the whistle on these particular ne'er do wells then fair play to them.

 

[glasgowtripper]

I suppose if you came home and found your house burgled, and the neighbours had seen it being burgled but did not report it, you would be quite happy with that?

That’s quite an exaggeration?

Like any rational person, I’m sure my neighbours would inform the police when safe to do so. I would be quite happy with that than risking their safety and well-being.

 

[Esker-pades]

That’s quite an exaggeration?

Like any rational person, I’m sure my neighbours would inform the police when safe to do so. I would be quite happy with that than risking their safety and well-being.

In that case, what was unsafe about my actions?

 

[jimbo99]

When I was much younger, I used to intervene all the time in situations like this. The first time was at a cub scout jumble sale. I must have been about 10 at the time. A middle-aged woman furtively put a coat under her arm. I followed her into the car park and challenged her. She said she was just going to see what it looked like in natural daylight. She grabbed a passing scoutmaster or whatever and complained how humiliated she felt. I was told off for jumping to conclusions. I felt awful. My parents said nobody would steal from a jumble sale. About 2 years later I saw the same woman in M&S and followed her for a bit. The incident had stuck in my mind so much that I recognised her. Guess what.. she was on a shoplifting spree. Told the security bloke and she was grabbed as she left the shop.

My "interventions" of one sort another did solve/prevent a number of crimes - the most serious was an attempted murder. Successful conviction, police told me that without my evidence it would likely have gone unsolved.

BUT now, I'm different. For a start, your efforts generally go unappreciated by the organisations concerned/law enforcement. People generally take a dim view of snitches. Sure I'd always dial 999 on seeing a burglary or whatever. But otherwise I let things go - you don't get much support and it's not worth the personal risk. It's a pity - if everybody took the approach I used to take, I think the country would be safer.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

@FelixtheCat what was the outcome, did the guard/train manager check their tickets? Did your tweet work/get replied to? And ultimately if it worked, did you feel vindicated because I agree what you did!

 

[sheff1]

Leave the staff to do their job ....... They see fare evaders on every single train they work and will not get excited about the prospect of it one bit.

If that is the case I can only assume that the person purporting to be working the train I was on the other evening was actually an impostor. Next time I encounter such a person I will obviously report them to BTP ... 61016, I believe.

 

[LowLevel]

I personally have little time for the 'snitches get stitches' rubbish.

I don't really need tipping off to fare evaders and it's best for the common or garden passenger not to be involved.

On the other hand I once had a gang of lads on my train make sexually suggestive comments to various women. This was reported to me and I put myself at risk by intervening (not too much risk really - I've never really had much fear of physical violence and verbal abuse just rolls off - but still) and also arranged for police assistance.

The police duly arrived and not one woman involved, including the one who had moaned to me about the behaviour, had the decency to leave their details with them to make a complaint. I made the comment that they were effectively rubber stamping their behaviour and doing anyone else these lads came across a disservice and they seemed to actually consider this rude.

I was fuming.

 

[Esker-pades]

@FelixtheCat what was the outcome, did the guard/train manager check their tickets? Did your tweet work/get replied to? And ultimately if it worked, did you feel vindicated because I agree what you did!

Nope, they got off an hour later without being challenged. I didn't think anything would happen, but I'm happy with my decision.

 

[jymiee]

Firstly, I wasn't making this up.
When I travel, especially on InterCity services, I wear large, noise reducing headphones. So, I've heard the phrase "Yeah, but it's so crowded the guard won't come down so we don't need to worry" (roughly) with headphones on. I then removed my headphones. One person was on the phone to their mum and made the same comment. There is absolutely no reason to say that unless they have no or an invalid ticket.
I didn't go into details of the train I was on, because I did not want to identify the train I was on, certainly not at the time. I can do into some detail now (HST, full East Coast formation minus coach D, first class had unrefurbished seats in coach L).


Now, even though I wasn't making it up, would it matter if I was? This thread has and will turn into a discussion about if non-railway staff would tip staff off about fare evasion. That is quite an interesting and useful railway discussion.

1E25? 1730 from EDB

 

[Esker-pades]

1E25? 1730 from EDB

Well, 17:31, but yes.

 

[Dougal2345]

You could just give them a "Paddington stare" incorporating disgust and contempt at the point where you, or they, are disembarking. Reasonably safe and it might make you feel better

 

[Mutant Lemming]

It really isn't any of your business. They could be just winding you up and have perfectly valid tickets. You have no way of knowing or investigating because it just isn't your job nor any of your business. Some self righteous fool behind me clocked my oystercard registering 60p and didn't believe that was right - called staff and made accusations. It was perfectly legitimate fare and card - what wasn't legitimate was his slanderous interference into something they know nothing about.

 

[Esker-pades]

It really isn't any of your business. They could be just winding you up and have perfectly valid tickets. You have no way of knowing or investigating because it just isn't your job nor any of your business. Some self righteous fool behind me clocked my oystercard registering 60p and didn't believe that was right - called staff and made accusations. It was perfectly legitimate fare and card - what wasn't legitimate was his slanderous interference into something they know nothing about.

And what would the point of winding me up be?

 

[jfowkes]

And what would the point of winding me up be?

If they were trying it, the same reason most people try to wind strangers up. They were bored and you were there. Doesn't have to be any more reason than that.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I do wonder if those saying "snitches get stitches" (though I get the impression that some of that was tongue-in-cheek) would feel the same way about other railway crimes? On the TPE mk5a thread, when the Scarborough graffiti attacks happened recently there were all sorts of mediaeval punishments being proposed... you need to catch the culprits first, but don't expect any help from the public because "snitches get stitches".

 

[atraindriver]

<deleted>

 

[StuartH]

Probably not a lot , depending on toc it would take the social media team to then inform the control team to then look for the contact details of the guard and contact the guard(if there is one) when they more often than not have 101 far more important things to be dealing with .

Twitter to the TOC is the best (usually only) way of informing the guard in my experience. Messaged the TOC yesterday as 3 trainees from the TOC on route learning were sitting down whilst passengers were standing. Guard couldnt get through at the time, but 'reminded' them of the correct protocol later when the grain had emptied.
Twitter is good for requesting connectons are held as well.

 

[HOOVER29]

Snitches get stitches.

I like it!!
Been on planet earth for over 50 yrs & if I’m honest I’ve been a bit of a lad once or twice, or more mainly on a Friday or Saturday night getting into scrapes etc etc.
I’ve never heard that saying before.

 

[al78]

If they do that, there is a good chance that they will end up in prison.

Quite possibly, but sending them to prison doesn't get you out of hospital. It is a bit like when I am cycling on the road and a motorist refuses to yield to me when they legally should, I am not going to hold my ground and play chicken with a two tonne machine, because in the event of a collision it is me who gets seriously injured or killed.

 

[al78]

If they were trying it, the same reason most people try to wind strangers up. They were bored and you were there. Doesn't have to be any more reason than that.

Even more reason to grass on them, let them have an undesirable/embarrasing consequence for being a dick.

 

[Master29]

Snitches get stitches.

I don`t think that`s a very helpful reply. He (the OP ) makes a reasonable point and although I see where your coming from how far would you take this analogy?