What will happen if, after boarding an Intercity Express Train (IET) with a bike with a reservation, there is no space to put my bike?

[miklcct]

I bought a train ticket with a bike reservation on a GWR intercity route today, with the bike reservation in coach B. However, when I boarded the train, it turned out that both bike spaces were occupied by bikes, and I had to push my bike across the carriage to coach D to put it on while the train was moving, which was not a nice thing to do on that kind of train.

Unlike other trains where I have seen 12 bikes in an area with an official bike capacity of 6, it's not possible to overload the bike space on an IET. What will happen if I can't find a space on an IET for my bike despite having a reservation after the train started?

 

[RPI]

Surely you'd have noticed as you boarded the train as the bike spaces are right by the doors?

 

[Grumbler]

A solution would be to change the reservation system to allocate bike spaces as well as seats.

 

[penguin8967]

A solution would be to change the reservation system to allocate bike spaces as well as seats.

Doesn't this already happen? IET bike spaces have the same reservation screens as seats located above them (numbered 00 and 99 I think) so I would assume they're allocated if you book one?

 

[Malaxa]

Surely you'd have noticed as you boarded the train as the bike spaces are right by the doors?

Not if you're boarding from the side with the cycle storage [aka shower cubicle] area, especially if the train is about to depart and you've already had to find coach B in a rush.
Coach D has what appears to be luggage space not space for hanging a bike vertically, perhaps the OP can tell us if there are hooks there, or how indeed they stored the bike.
What about the wheelchair area if it's not occupied in coach E?
This is the best plan I can find quickly

https://twitter.com/GWRHelp/status/1000391688588840960

It's not a satisfactory system, since the guard can't check every cyclist's reservation when getting in the train. These really are the worst trains for cycles in the UK, and they serve Oxford!

 

[RPI]

Not if you're boarding from the side with the cycle storage [aka shower cubicle] area, especially if the train is about to depart and you've already had to find coach B in a rush.
Coach D has what appears to be luggage space not space for hanging a bike vertically, perhaps the OP can tell us if there are hooks there, or how indeed they stored the bike.
What about the wheelchair area if it's not occupied in coach E?
This is the best plan I can find quickly

https://twitter.com/GWRHelp/status/1000391688588840960

It's not a satisfactory system, since the guard can't check every cyclist's reservation when getting in the train. These really are the worst trains for cycles in the UK, and they serve Oxford!

Its still visible by the time your bike is in the vestibule and half out the door though.

And I agree, bike spaces on IET'S are a nightmare, annoyingly the bike space is a perfect space for large suitcases.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And I agree, bike spaces on IET'S are a nightmare, annoyingly the bike space is a perfect space for large suitcases.

They really do need to bin off all the "no view, narrow" seats by the vestibule and fit luggage racks in all four of them. People would choose in-saloon luggage space over that outside the saloon as they like to see their stuff. It's just because there's nowhere else that they put it in the bike/wheelchair spaces.

 

[Malaxa]

Its still visible by the time your bike is in the vestibule and half out the door though.

And then what?

 

[Benjwri]

I've actually had this experience, multiple times, on GWR IETs. GWR does allocate bike spaces on IETs, and technically you can't travel on one without. However where this becomes a problem is either when people travel without a reservation or put luggage in the bike areas, despite the lights above showing they were booked. I came across this situation on a train from Didcot to Bath last year, and with no other spaces I tried to stand in the corridor next to the bike locker, leaving enough space for someone to get by. Unfortunately the Train Manager came along and informed me that he couldn't allow a bike there, an promptly booted me off the train at Swindon.

This was despite showing him the paper ticket showing him I had a reservation for this service, in this carriage. He informed me policy is that they can't ask anyone to move luggage or bike out of the area once it's been put there, regardless of a reservation, and therefore I'd have to be the one to get off. It seemed a pretty widespread policy, as I was booted off the following IET at Chippenham, despite explaining to the manager I had been booted off the last one with a reservation.

 

[Malaxa]

I've actually had this experience, multiple times, on GWR IETs. GWR does allocate bike spaces on IETs, and technically you can't travel on one without. However where this becomes a problem is either when people travel without a reservation or put luggage in the bike areas, despite the lights above showing they were booked. I came across this situation on a train from Didcot to Bath last year, and with no other spaces I tried to stand in the corridor next to the bike locker, leaving enough space for someone to get by. Unfortunately the Train Manager came along and informed me that he couldn't allow a bike there, an promptly booted me off the train at Swindon.

This was despite showing him the paper ticket showing him I had a reservation for this service, in this carriage. He informed me policy is that they can't ask anyone to move luggage or bike out of the area once it's been put there, regardless of a reservation, and therefore I'd have to be the one to get off. It seemed a pretty widespread policy, as I was booted off the following IET at Chippenham, despite explaining to the manager I had been booted off the last one with a reservation.

Did you take this up with GWR?

 

[Benjwri]

Did you take this up with GWR?

At the time I didn't much see the point, I've never taken a bike with them since. When I was trying to book the bike their customer service agents on Twitter were highly unhelpful anyways, and looking online I found many similar experiences where GWR did nothing to resolve.

 

[RPI]

And then what?

Step back onto the platform and try another coach. Far from ideal but avoids walking through 2 coaches with a bike.

 

[geoffk]

Isn't this all about DfT wanting a "one size fits all" type of train, maximising bums on seats and not wanting to give up space for luggage or bikes. I'm sure there's a debate about surfboards elsewhere!

 

[Malaxa]

Step back onto the platform and try another coach. Far from ideal but avoids walking through 2 coaches with a bike.

Have you tried that on the last train at Moreton-in-Marsh. Have you ever taken a bike on the GWR IET?

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Did you take this up with GWR?

More importantly, arguably, did you take this up with Christian Wolmar?!!! It's well known to many that the IEP trains on GWR are not good with bikes, but it's probably time for a bit of direct pressure on Ministers about it?

 

[Grumbler]

I've actually had this experience, multiple times, on GWR IETs. GWR does allocate bike spaces on IETs, and technically you can't travel on one without. However where this becomes a problem is either when people travel without a reservation or put luggage in the bike areas, despite the lights above showing they were booked. I came across this situation on a train from Didcot to Bath last year, and with no other spaces I tried to stand in the corridor next to the bike locker, leaving enough space for someone to get by. Unfortunately the Train Manager came along and informed me that he couldn't allow a bike there, an promptly booted me off the train at Swindon.

This was despite showing him the paper ticket showing him I had a reservation for this service, in this carriage. He informed me policy is that they can't ask anyone to move luggage or bike out of the area once it's been put there, regardless of a reservation, and therefore I'd have to be the one to get off. It seemed a pretty widespread policy, as I was booted off the following IET at Chippenham, despite explaining to the manager I had been booted off the last one with a reservation.

You should have removed the unexpected item in your reserved bike area to park your own bike.

 

[RPI]

My post was advice to avoid walking through 2 coaches with a bike, so I stand by my advice in that post where I also state that its far from ideal, so you don't have get all defensive

No, I don't take a bike on trains, if I'm cycling somewhere I cycle, if I'm catching a train I catch a train. I regularly cycle the Tarka trail and I find the easiest and least stressful option is to catch the train to Barnstaple and hire a bicycle from there, rightly or wrongly the modern railway isn't, in my opinion, easy to negotiate with a bike so I simply wouldn't do it, likewise the roads are full of both selfish car drivers and selfish cyclists so I also avoid cycling on roads, particularly with my kids.

Also to add, I've certainly never been told that we can't remove-or ask passengers to remove, their bikes or luggage from a bike space.

 

[Taunton]

I came across this situation on a train from Didcot to Bath last year, and with no other spaces I tried to stand in the corridor next to the bike locker, leaving enough space for someone to get by. Unfortunately the Train Manager came along and informed me that he couldn't allow a bike there, an promptly booted me off the train at Swindon.

This was despite showing him the paper ticket showing him I had a reservation for this service, in this carriage. He informed me policy is that they can't ask anyone to move luggage or bike out of the area once it's been put there, regardless of a reservation, and therefore I'd have to be the one to get off. It seemed a pretty widespread policy, as I was booted off the following IET at Chippenham, despite explaining to the manager I had been booted off the last one with a reservation.

This sounds like the ideal situation for the railway to devise still further fines for those like yourself who have infringed some (unpublicised) policy. Boy, they would have got you twice for this one. Where are the GWR lawyers when they are needed for this revenue opportunity ... .

 

[Bletchleyite]

This sounds like the ideal situation for the railway to devise still further fines for those like yourself who have infringed some (unpublicised) policy. Boy, they would have got you twice for this one. Where are the GWR lawyers when they are needed for this revenue opportunity ... .

In a way the problem is that there is no legally imposable penalty for taking an unreserved bike on. On Pendolinos where they need to open the van area it can simply be refused, but on other trains there's no use in a policy without enforcement.

It would also help if it was easier to book one, e.g. via a dedicated Cycling by Train website/app which could book on all bookable TOCs at a couple of taps. Before people say "but cost" I'd be happy to pay a couple of quid for a bike reservation to cover that cost, the railway doesn't like charging, though, as that's consideration which results in a legally enforceable contract to carry.

 

[[.n]]

In a way the problem is that there is no legally imposable penalty for taking an unreserved bike on. On Pendolinos where they need to open the van area it can simply be refused, but on other trains there's no use in a policy without enforcement.

So in the case above (person with bike reservation who was booted off the train) what would have happened if they had refused to leave the train?

 

[miklcct]

Not if you're boarding from the side with the cycle storage [aka shower cubicle] area, especially if the train is about to depart and you've already had to find coach B in a rush.
Coach D has what appears to be luggage space not space for hanging a bike vertically, perhaps the OP can tell us if there are hooks there, or how indeed they stored the bike.
What about the wheelchair area if it's not occupied in coach E?
This is the best plan I can find quickly

https://twitter.com/GWRHelp/status/1000391688588840960

It's not a satisfactory system, since the guard can't check every cyclist's reservation when getting in the train. These really are the worst trains for cycles in the UK, and they serve Oxford!

On the train I boarded, there were 2 bike spaces in coach B, one showing available and the other showing my reservation, but there were already 2 bikes inside. Then in coach D there were also bike spaces in the same form as coach B, both showing available and with one other bike inside already.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So in the case above (person with bike reservation who was booted off the train) what would have happened if they had refused to leave the train?

Probably nothing unless BTP were on board to physically remove them.

 

[Oxfordblues]

I frequently have this issue taking my bike on GWR IETs. Reservations are "compulsory" but this is rarely enforced and, in any case, having a reservation doesn't mean the space will be empty. I can't really complain as I have a Western Region Status Pass and usually just wait for the next train, but I do think GWR will have to address extra cycle provision at some stage (as Scotrail have done on the West Highland Line).

 

[All Line Rover]

The passenger doesn't need removing from the train, the bike (apparently) does.

Let BTP arrest the bike.

 

[miklcct]

No, I don't take a bike on trains, if I'm cycling somewhere I cycle, if I'm catching a train I catch a train. I regularly cycle the Tarka trail and I find the easiest and least stressful option is to catch the train to Barnstaple and hire a bicycle from there, rightly or wrongly the modern railway isn't, in my opinion, easy to negotiate with a bike so I simply wouldn't do it, likewise the roads are full of both selfish car drivers and selfish cyclists so I also avoid cycling on roads, particularly with my kids.

I would say that taking my bike on board is the only practical option for me to attend races which are held in rural areas far away without a usable public transport.

Taking my race yesterday as an example, if I relied totally on public transport, it would be 45 minutes between my train arrival and the bus departure time, as both the train and the bus operated hourly.

 

[SuspectUsual]

It would also help if it was easier to book one, e.g. via a dedicated Cycling by Train website/app which could book on all bookable TOCs at a couple of taps. Before people say "but cost" I'd be happy to pay a couple of quid for a bike reservation to cover that cost, the railway doesn't like charging, though, as that's consideration which results in a legally enforceable contract to carry

Surely the cycle booking needs to be fully integrated with the ticket booking process, not on a separate website? Otherwise there’s a risk of buying a ticket for a train and then finding there’s no bike space available

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely the cycle booking needs to be fully integrated with the ticket booking process, not on a separate website? Otherwise there’s a risk of buying a ticket for a train and then finding there’s no bike space available

It'd be nice for it to be both, but it wouldn't be hard to call up a search, pick the one you're likely to want, put it in your basket, make the bike reservation separately then pay for the journey once you have it.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I almost invariably take my folding bike rather than full-size bike by train now - in fact I'm doing that right now on a train to Worcester. The IETs have made travelling with a full-size bike so stressful that it's just simpler.

I'm lucky enough to have a very good folder, a Bike Friday New World Tourist, which is far closer in ride quality to a standard bike than to a twitchy little Brommie. The NWT just folds small enough to get into a GWR luggage rack, or on a 9-coach IET it sits nicely part-folded at the 'inside' end of coach A.

But I agree with @Bletchleyite and others who've suggested it (e.g. @II) - replacing the no-view seats with luggage racks, then giving over all the "Bike and bulk rooms" to bikes, would be a better solution. Better still would be removing the unused kitchens from all the five-coach trains and replacing them with bike/luggage storage areas. Yes, I do realise this would mean that two passengers at Carmarthen a day couldn't have their Pullman dinner.

 

[Benjwri]

This sounds like the ideal situation for the railway to devise still further fines for those like yourself who have infringed some (unpublicised) policy. Boy, they would have got you twice for this one. Where are the GWR lawyers when they are needed for this revenue opportunity ... .

Very glad I had an open ticket and wasn't using an advance that time, I'm sure the second TM would have taken great joy in some kind of charge when he checked my ticket.

Probably nothing unless BTP were on board to physically remove them.

I did try to remain on the train but the TM said that they wouldn't move until I could be removed, as the bike was a 'safety hazard'.

No, I don't take a bike on trains, if I'm cycling somewhere I cycle, if I'm catching a train I catch a train. I regularly cycle the Tarka trail and I find the easiest and least stressful option is to catch the train to Barnstaple and hire a bicycle from there, rightly or wrongly the modern railway isn't, in my opinion, easy to negotiate with a bike so I simply wouldn't do it, likewise the roads are full of both selfish car drivers and selfish cyclists so I also avoid cycling on roads, particularly with my kids.

I only do it when absolutely necessary, which is twice a year to get my bike to and from uni. I don't have a car which can fit a bike inside, nor can have a cycle rack attached, so it is my only option.

Also to add, I've certainly never been told that we can't remove-or ask passengers to remove, their bikes or luggage from a bike space.

To be fair only the TM who directly told me so was the first one, the second said something on a similar line, but I can't remember entirely, and to be fair I did not have a reservation for the service, but he had no sympathy that I'd been kicked off the one I did

Surely the cycle booking needs to be fully integrated with the ticket booking process, not on a separate website?

It is. On GWR there is an option to book a bike when you say if you'd like to reserve seats. I've never had an issue with it, except it seems if someone selects a bike reservation it puts the space on hold, but if they back out and never purchase it, it is never taken off hold, so there can be no spaces the app shows as bookable, but there aren't actually any reserved spaces either. The main issue is no one respects reservations.

 

[Trainbike46]

Did you claim delay repay for this mess?