What will happen if, after boarding an Intercity Express Train (IET) with a bike with a reservation, there is no space to put my bike?

[smsm1]

Surely the cycle booking needs to be fully integrated with the ticket booking process, not on a separate website? Otherwise there’s a risk of buying a ticket for a train and then finding there’s no bike space available

I'd even go further and say we need to improve the booking process so that you can say at the initial train requirements that you need a cycle, wheelchair, buggy, or luggage space, and then the trains shown would include those requirements, this being able to easier find the required trains, especially when done are already fully booked for those items.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd even go further and say we need to improve the booking process so that you can say at the initial train requirements that you need a cycle, wheelchair, buggy, or luggage space, and then the trains shown would include those requirements, this being able to easier find the required trains, especially when done are already fully booked for those items.

If the present "semi compulsory reservation" nonsense is to persist, and if HS2 as is likely is fully compulsory, yes, the planners do need to work a bit differently and properly substitute trains that are full for the selected thing, which they don't at present.

 

[Techniquest]

To be fair the following policy is quoted on the National Rail site:

So you wouldn't be left without a ticket, but still would be greatly inconvenienced.

Admittedly it is harder to find the cyclist who has left their bike in a reserved space and gone to sit down, than the cyclist with a reservation who has been forced to prop their bike up in a gangway, but in my case the TM had the discussion with me just as we left Didcot, and stood with me all the way to Swindon to make sure I got off, making absolutely no attempt to even find the other person who's bike it was in the 20 or so minutes between. That is inexcusable in my opinion.

Thanks for the link, that makes sense. I will have to note that for future. That TM you had sounds like a right muppet, surely he could in that time have made an announcement asking for the person with the cycle in coach B/J/whatever to go to that area.

 

[Towers]

Thanks for the link, that makes sense. I will have to note that for future. That TM you had sounds like a right muppet, surely he could in that time have made an announcement asking for the person with the cycle in coach B/J/whatever to go to that area.

Would the OP care to enlighten us as to the station at which this happened? (I don't think we know, yet?)

 

[Benjwri]

Would the OP care to enlighten us as to the station at which this happened? (I don't think we know, yet?)

Not the OP, but I believe you're referring to my incident. I think I posted it somewhere, I've definitely mentioned the stations in passing.

It was a journey from Didcot Parkway to Bath Spa, almost exactly a year ago, at about midday. I was kicked off 2 trains, one at Swindon, one at Chippenham.

GWR was having a bit of a nightmare though, not sure why, and trains were cancelled, and those running were making less/extra stops, so the trains were busier than usual.

 

[Towers]

Not the OP, but I believe you're referring to my incident. I think I posted it somewhere, I've definitely mentioned the stations in passing.

It was a journey from Didcot Parkway to Bath Spa, almost exactly a year ago, at about midday. I was kicked off 2 trains, one at Swindon, one at Chippenham.

GWR was having a bit of a nightmare though, not sure why, and trains were cancelled, and those running were making less/extra stops, so the trains were busier than usual.

Ah, my apologies then, I missed that!

So, lots of disruption, presumably rammed trains; I can see why the priority would have been to just keep things moving, in fairness.

 

[Benjwri]

So, lots of disruption, presumably rammed trains; I can see why the priority would have been to just keep things moving, in fairness.

Busy for 12, not rammed. Were still seats available, which to be fair is quiet for a train to Bath. Would've thought the lateness would mean they wouldn't threaten to further delay the train if I didn't get off.

 

[hkstudent]

Not the OP, but I believe you're referring to my incident. I think I posted it somewhere, I've definitely mentioned the stations in passing.

It was a journey from Didcot Parkway to Bath Spa, almost exactly a year ago, at about midday. I was kicked off 2 trains, one at Swindon, one at Chippenham.

GWR was having a bit of a nightmare though, not sure why, and trains were cancelled, and those running were making less/extra stops, so the trains were busier than usual.

And to be fair, there are also some issues with train cancellations, which may make cycle reservations be a nightmare, and ultimately leave some cyclists stranded, if no alternative cycle reservations available on subsequent trains, which is a sub-par scenario. Given that the high rate of bike-theft in this country, leaving the bike somewhere is also not feasible.

 

[Trainbike46]

And to be fair, there are also some issues with train cancellations, which may make cycle reservations be a nightmare, and ultimately leave some cyclists stranded, if no alternative cycle reservations available on subsequent trains, which is a sub-par scenario. Given that the high rate of bike-theft in this country, leaving the bike somewhere is also not feasible.

Don't GWR 80x trains have more bike spaces on the train than are reservable? that's how it was resolved when I was travelling cornwall to london with my bike and my train (as well as every earlier train, and the next train) was cancelled

 

[noddingdonkey]

Admittedly it is harder to find the cyclist who has left their bike in a reserved space and gone to sit down, than the cyclist with a reservation who has been forced to prop their bike up in a gangway, but in my case the TM had the discussion with me just as we left Didcot, and stood with me all the way to Swindon to make sure I got off, making absolutely no attempt to even find the other person who's bike it was in the 20 or so minutes between. That is inexcusable in my opinion.

If that was me the TM would have had the pleasure of overhearing my phone call to the relevant TOC's customer services to discuss the matter and how they proposed to resolve it

 

[Benjwri]

Don't GWR 80x trains have more bike spaces on the train than are reservable? that's how it was resolved when I was travelling cornwall to london with my bike and my train (as well as every earlier train, and the next train) was cancelled

This is what I was wondering recently, after I thought I saw it on an IET, but I wasn't aware of it at the time, and unfortunately I wasn't offered that resolution, so assume they were full too.

 

[Trainbike46]

If that was me the TM would have had the pleasure of overhearing my phone call to the relevant TOC's customer services to discuss the matter and how they proposed to resolve it

Have you ever actually tried calling GWR customer service

 

[Malaxa]

If rail companies banned any luggage which wouldn't fit into overhead roof racks, they could remove all luggage pens from their trains and hey presto, you've achieved greater [vacant] seating capacity to be trailed around the country.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If rail companies banned any luggage which wouldn't fit into overhead roof racks, they could remove all luggage pens from their trains and hey presto, you've achieved greater [vacant] seating capacity to be trailed around the country.

On 80x you can fit massive bags on the overheads, my 120 litre rucksack fits easily. People just don't like lifting them up, or can't.

However, that's totally impractical on most stock. As a minimum, people need to be able to carry an airline style carry-on on long distance trains.

 

[Horizon22]

GWR cycle spaces don't even have an associated seat, they generally reserve you a seat in the other 5 cars of a 10 car set. GWR cycle spaces only take up what would be a luggage rack, and they are actually equipped to become this when there are no bikes in them. So if they are empty, they would be empty whatever they were. They most certainly aren't a waste of space, as the only time I've seen the vestibule luggage racks used as anything other than a bin is when bikes aren't permitted towards London.

This is something of an issue - for people with bikes boarding at an intermediate point on a busy service, the cycle racks aren’t accessible.

Other than providing enough luggage storage (I’m not sure there will ever be enough on certain inter-city routes with the 80x fleet) or agressive management of the space by the guard / train manager (not always feasible) it’s difficult to find the right balance without getting into a conflict.

 

[hkstudent]

This is something of an issue - for people with bikes boarding at an intermediate point on a busy service, the cycle racks aren’t accessible.

Other than providing enough luggage storage (I’m not sure there will ever be enough on certain inter-city routes with the 80x fleet) or agressive management of the space by the guard / train manager (not always feasible) it’s difficult to find the right balance without getting into a conflict.

One of the better(?) practice by LNER is, to lock the bike space on class 80x unless seeing a bike reservation. That will guarantee the space be occupied by the reservant

 

[ShadowKnight]

If I was being kicked off a train because of my bike and the next train is not for a few hours, I would be particularly insistent on staying on the train. I would imagine in such a case space could be found that a bike can go

 

[Horizon22]

One of the better(?) practice by LNER is, to lock the bike space on class 80x unless seeing a bike reservation. That will guarantee the space be occupied by the reservant

My question was more if there is a reservation, but as an example, its the 3rd or 4th stop on a 10 stop service. Not necessarily practical for a guard to lock / unlock the space continuously as required, especially if busy.

 

[DelW]

My question was more if there is a reservation, but as an example, its the 3rd or 4th stop on a 10 stop service. Not necessarily practical for a guard to lock / unlock the space continuously as required, especially if busy.

Could it have a lock that either opens automatically at the station where the reservation starts (possibly too complicated), or that could only be opened by a code sent to the reservation holder?

Other than that, if the space is in practice available to unreserved bikes, pushchairs, luggage etc. then really it should be first come first served (which is de facto the case now it seems). Offering reservations without keeping the space free for the holder is bound to create conflict and problems for the people who are trying to comply with the rules.

 

[Malaxa]

On 80x you can fit massive bags on the overheads, my 120 litre rucksack fits easily. People just don't like lifting them up, or can't.

However, that's totally impractical on most stock. As a minimum, people need to be able to carry an airline style carry-on on long distance trains.

Yet passengers with cycles on 80x are expected to lift their heavy "luggage" way above their heads, vertically, onto hooks in the "shower unit". Clearly, some luggage is more equal than other luggage.

 

[noddingdonkey]

If rail companies banned any luggage which wouldn't fit into overhead roof racks, they could remove all luggage pens from their trains and hey presto, you've achieved greater [vacant] seating capacity to be trailed around the country.

And think of the savings by closing stations such as Manchester Airport, and whole services like Heathrow Express.

 

[Techniquest]

And think of the savings by closing stations such as Manchester Airport, and whole services like Heathrow Express.

Quite so, all the private hire companies/Uber/Bolt/etc and the bus/coach operators would be laughing all the way to the bank.

Removing large luggage space from trains, that has to be the silliest idea I've heard of in recent times. I've heard of some outrageously stupid plans recently, but that tops the lot.

I thoroughly disagree with making cycle spaces on long-distance trains first come, first served. It just wouldn't work. Granted, the current system is far from perfect, but making it a free for all is not going to help whatsoever!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Quite so, all the private hire companies/Uber/Bolt/etc and the bus/coach operators would be laughing all the way to the bank.

Removing large luggage space from trains, that has to be the silliest idea I've heard of in recent times. I've heard of some outrageously stupid plans recently, but that tops the lot.

I thoroughly disagree with making cycle spaces on long-distance trains first come, first served. It just wouldn't work. Granted, the current system is far from perfect, but making it a free for all is not going to help whatsoever!

What is needed is for staff to strictly enforce reservations rather than shrugging their shoulders to avoid conflict. It is their job. Occupying a reserved seat etc is a Byelaw offence, and it should, if the reserver shows up and the occupier refuses to move, be prosecuted accordingly. (It'd be better if a PF could be applied!)

 

[Towers]

What is needed is for staff to strictly enforce reservations rather than shrugging their shoulders to avoid conflict. It is their job. Occupying a reserved seat etc is a Byelaw offence, and it should, if the reserver shows up and the occupier refuses to move, be prosecuted accordingly. (It'd be better if a PF could be applied!)

You surely appreciate the multitude of issues arising from that suggestion?!

 

[Bletchleyite]

You surely appreciate the multitude of issues arising from that suggestion?!

Fundamentally reservations of any kind have no credibility nor purpose unless strictly enforced.

They must either be strictly enforced or wholly abolished.

A penalty exists for occupying one wrongly - it just isn't used and should be.

 

[Towers]

Fundamentally reservations of any kind have no credibility nor purpose unless strictly enforced.

They must either be strictly enforced or wholly abolished.

A penalty exists for occupying one wrongly - it just isn't used and should be.

Indeed, but that's where the theory of a policy meets the crushing rock of reality!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, but that's where the theory of a policy meets the crushing rock of reality!

Which is why the correct option may be to abolish them.

It is fundamentally wrong - bait and switch, in a way - to "sell"* a policy and then not deliver it.

* People will be buying fares on this basis, so while reservations are free there IS a consideration involved.

 

[Towers]

Which is why the correct option may be to abolish them.

It is fundamentally wrong - bait and switch, in a way - to "sell"* a policy and then not deliver it.

* People will be buying fares on this basis, so while reservations are free there IS a consideration involved.

Completely agree!

 

[DelW]

A possible improvement might be to configure the seating and/or the reservations system to place holders of cycle reservations in seats adjacent to the cycle space - and also to require anyone putting other items there to sit adjacent and within sight. That ought to be beneficial to cycle owners in improving security, and more relevantly here, means that someone with an unreserved cycle occupying a space should be close by if the reservation holder boards. The penalty for not sitting close by would be the risk that your cycle / pushchair / etc. might be removed from the cycle space or even from the train in order to accommodate the reservation.

 

[Towers]

A possible improvement might be to configure the seating and/or the reservations system to place holders of cycle reservations in seats adjacent to the cycle space - and also to require anyone putting other items there to sit adjacent and within sight. That ought to be beneficial to cycle owners in improving security, and more relevantly here, means that someone with an unreserved cycle occupying a space should be close by if the reservation holder boards. The penalty for not sitting close by would be the risk that your cycle / pushchair / etc. might be removed from the cycle space or even from the train in order to accommodate the reservation.

Interesting idea. The issue would likely be that having seats that (supposedly) sit empty all the time unless someone boards with luggage or a bike is unlikely to be terribly popular.