What's the justification for giving a whole class of school children a detention?

[DarloRich]

In my case I'm pretty sure they knew who was doing what. The fact that they insisted on punishing people who weren't even there says it all really.

Always best if you can get someone to verify what you know.

 

[McRhu]

I think corporal punishment was pretty much part and parcel of the whole shebang back then in the 60s and 70s, and we took it very much for granted. The teachers had names for their belts (or tawses). How well I made the acquaintance of "The Brown Bomber" and "The Black Flash". And at the risk of being controversial and displaying my juvenile schadenfreude there was no finer entertainment than when it was somebody else's turn on the receiving end. Of course, many of the teachers were veterans of WW2 and were products a time when discipline was more highly valued. My poor old maths teacher had been navigator on a RN destroyer that had been torpedoed and had spent a few years in a Japanese prisoner of war camp.

 

[Bungle73]

Up until this point my only "experience" of such matters had been what I'd seen in the comics I used to get. It was odd to be attending a real life school where it went on. Makes me wonder how common it was during these last few years just before it was abolished.

Apart from that, I got my only info about secondary school life from watching Grange Hill. I don't remember it in that, but having just done some research it did feature a few times, but I don't remember.

 

[Enthusiast]

We did get a few whole class detentions, but not many, our school masters were very old fashioned and traditional, tending to use the slipper or cane.

We didn't suffer "whole class" detentions very much and when we did they were usually well deserved - the whole class (or thereabouts) had been misbehaving. We also received "whole class" slipperings. Not usually justified but no big deal. Usually took place in the gym (my form master was head of PE). Thirty of us lined up for a swift larrup with the Dunlop Green Flash. On at least one occasion there was a "whole year" slippering at the playing field. Same assailant, this time ninety of us. When suffering a slippering of 30 it usually made little difference where you were in the line. But with ninety, it was definitely advantageous to be near the end. Slippering was far preferable to detention. A couple of minutes, done and dusted. Didn't eat into one's valuable leisure time too much. We were rarely sent to see the Headmaster. Our teachers, together with the prefects, were more than capable of maintaining law and order.

I used to point blank refuse to attend any unfair/unjust detentions. My older cousin is a solicitor, etc....

I liked all of that. Gave me a good chuckle. We didn't have "policies" when I was at school. We couldn't afford them. We were far too busy learning things and having fun to worry about them anyway. I won't say which school I attended but it was a central London "Direct Grant" grammar school and is now consistently in the top five state schools in the country. Anybody reading this who was a pupil there between about 1960 and 1975 will recognise the above events and will certainly remember the exponent of the Green Flash who lived in Pangbourne and went by the initials DEAC. It gave me a superb education - and a sense of perspective.

 

[Bungle73]

We didn't suffer "whole class" detentions very much and when we did they were usually well deserved - the whole class (or thereabouts) had been misbehaving. We also received "whole class" slipperings. Not usually justified but no big deal. Usually took place in the gym (my form master was head of PE). Thirty of us lined up for a swift larrup with the Dunlop Green Flash. On at least one occasion there was a "whole year" slippering at the playing field. Same assailant, this time ninety of us. When suffering a slippering of 30 it usually made little difference where you were in the line. But with ninety, it was definitely advantageous to be near the end. Slippering was far preferable to detention. A couple of minutes, done and dusted. Didn't eat into one's valuable leisure time too much. We were rarely sent to see the Headmaster. Our teachers, together with the prefects, were more than capable of maintaining law and order.

I liked all of that. Gave me a good chuckle. We didn't have "policies" when I was at school. We couldn't afford them. We were far too busy learning things and having fun to worry about them anyway. I won't say which school I attended but it was a central London "Direct Grant" grammar school and is now consistently in the top five state schools in the country. Anybody reading this who was a pupil there between about 1960 and 1975 will recognise the above events and will certainly remember the exponent of the Green Flash who lived in Pangbourne and went by the initials DEAC. It gave me a superb education - and a sense of perspective.

Surely the physical punishment of someone who has done nothing wrong constitutes an assault? Child abuse in fact.

 

[Enthusiast]

Surely the physical punishment of someone who has done nothing wrong constitutes an assault? Child abuse in fact.

Today the physical punishment of someone who has done wrong constitutes an assault. We live in different times. What I'm trying to express (not very well) is the essence of that difference. We thought nothing of it. We were not beaten to within an inch of our lives; we just got a whack on the arse with a gym slipper. We'd occasionally get a "clip round the ear" from a prefect. It was summary justice, over and done with, forgotten (by both sides) the next day. Far better than being detained after school for an hour (that would have eaten into my train spotting time at Kings Cross or Finsbury Park!). We didn't consider we were "abused". On the contrary, we were privileged to have been provided with a superb education and summary discipline was part of that. Part of the "rough and tumble", so to speak. And they were happy days, indeed.

 

[Bungle73]

Today the physical punishment of someone who has done wrong constitutes an assault. We live in different times. What I'm trying to express (not very well) is the essence of that difference. We thought nothing of it. We were not beaten to within an inch of our lives; we just got a whack on the arse with a gym slipper. We'd occasionally get a "clip round the ear" from a prefect. It was summary justice, over and done with, forgotten (by both sides) the next day. Far better than being detained after school for an hour (that would have eaten into my train spotting time at Kings Cross or Finsbury Park!). We didn't consider we were "abused". On the contrary, we were privileged to have been provided with a superb education and summary discipline was part of that. Part of the "rough and tumble", so to speak. And they were happy days, indeed.

If you say so. As I say, I was at school in the 80s, and (at least for a short while) at a school where corporal punishment existed. I can just imagine my parents' reaction if I'd come home and told them I'd been subjected to some kind of mass school beating. I think they could just about put up with the class detentions.....or at least they didn't raise any real objections with the school when I complained about it.....but I'm quite sure this would have been a step too far for them.

Bearing in mind these were parents who grew up in the War, and had no objection in principle to (or the school presumably) giving me slap if they thought I needed it. But I doubt they have taken kindly to their son being beaten for no reason.

 

[Busaholic]

I must have been fortunate not to encounter corporal punishment at my all-boys school between 1959 and 1967. I can't imagine I'd have found it was in any way acceptable. The short-lived National Union of School Students had a founding membership of six, four from another boys' school a few miles away, and two from my school, one of whom was myself. There was a similar, more Trotskyite, organisation whose name escapes me, but they were the toffs tortured by the silver spoons in their mouths at birth, whereas we were just city kids going with events. Chris Jagger, Mick's younger brother, was invited to join to give us 'cred' but, probably wisely, declined, as he had more than enough attention given to him.

 

[Bungle73]

I must have been fortunate not to encounter corporal punishment at my all-boys school between 1959 and 1967. I can't imagine I'd have found it was in any way acceptable. The short-lived National Union of School Students had a founding membership of six, four from another boys' school a few miles away, and two from my school, one of whom was myself. There was a similar, more Trotskyite, organisation whose name escapes me, but they were the toffs tortured by the silver spoons in their mouths at birth, whereas we were just city kids going with events. Chris Jagger, Mick's younger brother, was invited to join to give us 'cred' but, probably wisely, declined, as he had more than enough attention given to him.

TBH, even if I stayed there for the long term, I can't conceive of any scenario (outside of the one that has been mentioned) where I would have been subjected to it. I was a fairly well behaved schoolboy. Having said that, I did forge a sick note from my parents once, at the next school I ended up at. I got rumbled straight away. Maybe that would have done it.

Oh, I think I mentioned earlier I gave a teacher the finger once, that most certainly would have done it, had it happened at the first school. Did I just say I was a well behaved school boy? Well most of the time. LOL!

 

[Bevan Price]

Our grammar school gave whole class detentions occasionally, rarely more than 15 to 30 minutes, and only if they had been very noisy. Although corporal punishment was allowed, use of an actual cane was uncommon, and always done in the headmaster's study. Other masters were allowed to use a slipper, ruler, blackboard duster, and a chemistry master used a length of rubber tubing. However, written punishments were generally preferred, lines, or (from an English teacher), "verbs", where you had to write 50 or 100 different verbs, plus all of their "cases" or "tenses". In retrospect, I think I might have preferred the cane.

Compared with earlier years, our school was relatively gentle; back then, canings were probably done in class, or at assembly, sometimes on the bare bottom, and sometimes a lot more than the proverbial "6 of the best".

 

[John Luxton]

I went to an independent public school after first two years at local primary and stayed until 18 in 1978.

To enrol I recall parents had to sign a form consenting to the use of physical punishment as a condition of entry.

However whilst some teachers could get a bit physical hair pulls, quick slap etc cane was only used for bullying, smoking, being very rude to staff.

Main punishment was the PD - penal drill which was supervised by perfects.

Basically run round the yard for an hour either carrying sandstone blocks from the rockery or a rifle from the CCF Armoury. For pupils under 13 PDs comprised writing out dictionary definitions of a given number of words.

Not that many got themselves into trouble. I certainly didn't. However, those that did rack up a few PDs could ask for their housemaster to cane them off. Not sure what the tariff for that was in terms of strokes per PD.

For more trivial offences there were "jobs" which usually involved litter picking.

Misbehaviour during CCF usually resulted in a Fatigue which was just basically a PD, though for serious offenders there was a defaulter. That comprised the Fatigue / PD plus parading in full kit outside the masters common room each break for a week!

 

[Enthusiast]

Misbehaviour during CCF usually resulted in a Fatigue which was just basically a PD, though for serious offenders there was a defaulter. That comprised the Fatigue / PD plus parading in full kit outside the masters common room each break for a week!

Happy Days!

I think, once again, it must be understood that those were different times. The earlier post (#52) with talk of taking a "representative" to a meeting with the Deputy Head really did make me laugh. If a pupil had refused to speak to our Headmaster in such circumstances the Headmaster would have spoken to him nonetheless. The outcome would have been identical (and possibly worse because of the pupil's intransigence). Another big difference was that in the main, parents supported such an approach. Had I told my father I had been punished at school he would have been very angry - with me. Today's children can seemingly do no wrong - but they can and do.

 

[John Luxton]

Happy Days!

I think, once again, it must be understood that those were different times. The earlier post (#52) with talk of taking a "representative" to a meeting with the Deputy Head really did make me laugh. If a pupil had refused to speak to our Headmaster in such circumstances the Headmaster would have spoken to him nonetheless. The outcome would have been identical (and possibly worse because of the pupil's intransigence). Another big difference was that in the main, parents supported such an approach. Had I told my father I had been punished at school he would have been very angry - with me. Today's children can seemingly do no wrong - but they can and do.

Yes generally parents did support the headmaster this is where things have gone wrong. Now the parents generally gang up against the school.

We see this every year in local papers when some child infringes the uniform code.

I know sometimes the uniform rules can be a bit over bearing and some infringements very minor - but people fail to see that the reason for the rules are to encourage discipline.

Something I learnt from school was always to read notices.

If a notice had been posted on one of the several school notice boards - there were quite a few dotted around the site - and you had not heeded the instructions on a notice to do something, be somewhere, be prepared for something etc then you would get into serious trouble.

To avoid trouble check all the notice boards at least once per day if not more. It was a good lesson for later life even if it means I now look out for and read notices with some vigour. Even planning noticed tied to lamp posts.

Perhaps it has made me rather sad!

 

[Busaholic]

TBH, even if I stayed there for the long term, I can't conceive of any scenario (outside of the one that has been mentioned) where I would have been subjected to it. I was a fairly well behaved schoolboy. Having said that, I did forge a sick note from my parents once, at the next school I ended up at. I got rumbled straight away. Maybe that would have done it.

Oh, I think I mentioned earlier I gave a teacher the finger once, that most certainly would have done it, had it happened at the first school. Did I just say I was a well behaved school boy? Well most of the time. LOL!

On the surface, I was a well-behaved schoolboy too, the only one in my year never to get an individual detention. On the other hand, I was the only one not to be made a sub-prefect, at least, on entering the third year of the 6th form (Scholarship Sixth). Subtle subversion was my stock in trade!

 

[Bungle73]

On the surface, I was a well-behaved schoolboy too, the only one in my year never to get an individual detention. On the other hand, I was the only one not to be made a sub-prefect, at least, on entering the third year of the 6th form (Scholarship Sixth). Subtle subversion was my stock in trade!

I did get given an individual detention once. TBH it was a bit harsh. I was feeling really rough because I was ill, but I couldn't get my parents to let me have a day off, and I ended up being late for school. Because I was late I got given a detention. I couldn't swear to that being the only one one, but it's the only one I remember, and I'm almost sure that's the case.

I wouldn't claim to have been a complete angel, but I didn't go out of my way to cause serious trouble either.

I remember one time I found a piece of masking tape, so I wrote "Broken" on it and stuck it over the lock of a storeroom door. When a teacher came along to get out what she needed she was confused and had to go and fetch the Head of House to find out what was going on. They put it down to someone else. At the time I found it most amusing and still do tbh. LOL.

And then there was the time I was doing school work in a small room upstairs in the music/drama block. At the end of the corridor was a larger room with a piano in it. I used to play about on the piano, and one time I was making so much noise that a teacher in the drama section downstairs came bounding up to find out what was going on. I managed to retreat to the room I was supposed to be in before he arrived, and acted innocent when he poked his head in and asked if I'd seen anything.

So maybe I was being a tad economical with the truth to claim that I was well behaved. I guess what I meant was that I wasn't one of life's trouble makers, but a typical schoolboy, who occasionally got up to lighthearted antics.

 

[Gloster]

We had a punishment that if you were twice late for classes etc. in a fortnight, you had to get up early on two days and empty a dustbin. Breakfast started at 07.30 and was echeloned to 08.15: the junior house always got the earliest slot (07.30-07.45) and the senior houses rotated around between the earliest and the latest (08.05-08.15). Doing the bins meant reporting to the main notice-board by 07.00. I somehow managed to get through five years without ever doing the bins. It was a mixture of disliking getting up early and my mother’s almost pathological hatred of unpunctuality (in others): the number of latenesses was recorded in your report.

Just about everybody, except those actually under some punishment, was made up to house prefect during their first A-Level year. Those expected to be the future heads of school or house first and the rest over the year. All the remaining less promising boys were made up as a group early in the summer term so as to spread the load for the seniors while they were taking their A-Levels. For no apparent reason my housemaster, who I did not get on with, promoted me a fortnight after everyone else, which immediately marked me out as a weak link. I didn’t last long: because I was seen as the weak link the juniors messed me about on my first duty and I had to give out some punishments. (Not too many, I think, just to those who were really playing me up: still not undressed when lights out was due, twenty minutes after they should have been in bed.) My housemaster cancelled them without telling me and, when I found out, hummed and hawed about it: I promptly resigned and was never asked again. (Usually, even those who had resigned or been stripped of their badge were made up again at the end of the final term so that they could put it on their CV.). I think the reason was that he didn’t want to upset those with rich parents.

 

[Bungle73]

Just been going through some of my old school reports.

Modern Languages: "Graham is a bit lazy and takes advantage of the fact that I cannot stand over him all of the time"

Oh dear. I think that my claim to have been well behaved is starting to disintegrate before my eyes. LOL!

 

[johnnychips]

There is a distinction between disruption and lassitude. J’espere que vous parlez francais tres bien quand vous allez a Paris par l’Eurostar.

 

[Bungle73]

There is a distinction between disruption and lassitude. J’espere que vous parlez francais tres bien quand vous allez a Paris par l’Eurostar.

I wasn't exactly playing ball though was I? That's the trouble, I didn't actually learn anything. I've no idea what that says without putting it into Google Translate. The other subjects I tended to do well at though. At least until my education fell apart when I became a serial truant.

 

[johnnychips]

Now come on, this is a revelation? Why did you become a serial truant? Was it because of whole class detentions? (In a desperate attempt to keep on topic).

 

[Gloster]

I wasn't exactly playing ball though was I? That's the trouble, I didn't actually learn anything. I've no idea what that says without putting it into Google Translate. The other subjects I tended to do well at though. At least until my education fell apart when I became a serial truant.

It means, ‘I hope you you speak French very well when when you go to Paris on the Eurostar.’ Here the speaker is indicating that s/he actually expects the listener to speak French well. If the speaker merely hoped that good French would be spoken, then the verb would be in the much-loved subjunctive tense (parliez).

 

[Bungle73]

Now come on, this is a revelation? Why did you become a serial truant? Was it because of whole class detentions? (In a desperate attempt to keep on topic).

Effectively yes. It all started at this first school, where as I've alluded to, I wasn't that happy being there. I'd never truanted before (although I had walked out of my primary school on the odd occasion). If you want the truth I got expelled from there for my absences and for walking out. In the end it turned out to be for the best though, because the school I ended up at next (Blackheath Bluecoat) was far better, and I felt more comfortable there. This was all fine for one or two years, and then I started truanting again. If you want to know why I started again after after so much time of not doing it I can't say. I know I was never that keen on the Games lessons, so that is part of it. But I started taking ridiculous amounts of time off (123 absences and late 78 times according to my Summer 1987 report). TBH it's like I was two different people: one pupil who was well behaved, turned up every day, hard working and who generally did well in lessons, and another pupil who didn't care about school and never turned up. The fact of the matter as far as I am concerned is that if I'd gone to Blackheath Bluecoat in the first place I'd probably never had started truanting. To cut a long story short I then ended up at school where they did one-to-one teaching, where I completed my schooling. I'm pleased to say I had a good attendance record there.

It means, ‘I hope you you speak French very well when when you go to Paris on the Eurostar.’ Here the speaker is indicating that s/he actually expects the listener to speak French well. If the speaker merely hoped that good French would be spoken, then the verb would be in the much-loved subjunctive tense (parliez).

I speak French about as well as someone who doesn't speak French at all. I think the only French I know is probably je m'appelle Graham, which amusingly I learnt at the school that I didn't like!

 

[Busaholic]

Now come on, this is a revelation? Why did you become a serial truant? Was it because of whole class detentions? (In a desperate attempt to keep on topic).

I truanted too, but to a public library where I devoured magazines like 'Encounter' and the 'New Statesman'. in addition to reading books. Thing is, I'd passed minimum school leaving age, and my actions were directed at the school for, imo, failing me.

 

[Bungle73]

I truanted too, but to a public library where I devoured magazines like 'Encounter' and the 'New Statesman'. in addition to reading books. Thing is, I'd passed minimum school leaving age, and my actions were directed at the school for, imo, failing me.

I used to (quite appropriately for this forum) purchase a Capital Card (as it was in those days) and spend the day travelling around London on the Tube, buses and trains. At least it gained me a good knowledge of London's public transport network. LOL! Funnily enough I never got questioned by anyone as to why I wasn't in school (even though I was in school uniform), apart from one time on a bus in the very early days. I made up some bs about having to go the dentist.

 

[maniacmartin]

I once got a whole-class detention over lunch because the teacher didn't show up for the class. This particular teacher often turned up 10-15 minutes after the lesson was scheduled to start, and as the classrooms were kept locked we all had to wait in the corridor. Her classroom was on its own at the very end of a twisty corridor behind a storeroom, so no other staff would every notice you were there.

Except one time when another teacher walked by and gave us all detention for not being in class and refused to believe that our class was scheduled to be right there. After making us all stay for detention, the original teacher stopped arriving late after that though...