• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

What's the point in zonal bus fares?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Teflon Lettuce

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2013
Messages
1,750
Off-bus ticketing implies you have to do something specific to buy a ticket before boarding (e.g. using a ticket machine, buying a ticket from a sales outlet, etc.).

I don't see how tapping your contactless payment card on the reader can be described as 'off-bus' ticketing.
because you still do not physically pay for your journey on the bus with cash.... really, like many phrases in English "off-bus ticketing" is misleading.. it should really {especially in London} be referred to "off-bus payment"
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Hophead

Established Member
Joined
5 Apr 2013
Messages
1,296
Where I live GoAhead operate a zonal system for passes and tickets isssued on apps or TheKey. Individual cash fares are no longer published so I have no idea what they are.

Full details can be found on the web but there is no other publicity available prior to boarding.That seems to be a common failing in publicity across the industry. Outside of London I have no recollection of seeing "fare stage" markers on bus stops.

Brighton and Hove have "Centre Fare Boundary" indicated on relevant stops, and make an announcement on the bus as well. I think the same applies at the City Zone boundary further out as well.
 

Deerfold

Veteran Member
Joined
26 Nov 2009
Messages
13,176
Location
Yorkshire
ok i dont fully understand how this works but think a 12.50 ish daily cap applies within tfl usage
my choice off rail was cash sale so no direct connect to oyster or contactless payment so i think woulnd be on the system so the 4.50 would be within the system but the national rail would not be ??

The Bus only (or Bus and Tram) cap is £4.50 for a day. If you start catching trains or the underground you'll pay more.
 

PeterC

Established Member
Joined
29 Sep 2014
Messages
4,431
Brighton and Hove have "Centre Fare Boundary" indicated on relevant stops, and make an announcement on the bus as well. I think the same applies at the City Zone boundary further out as well.
I was referring to classic fare stages every mile or so rather than zone boundaries.
 

carlberry

Established Member
Joined
19 Dec 2014
Messages
3,169
I was referring to classic fare stages every mile or so rather than zone boundaries.
I suspect this kind of thing hasn't happened since about 1980, certainly since deregulation. Previous to then fares were controlled by the traffic commissioners and revising them was a laborious task. Therefore for the operators that had fare stages and put them on the bus stops (Bristol Omnibus being an example) they were unlikely to change very often. As soon as operators had the flexibility to change fares quickly such things as physical fare stages became more of an issue and certainly wouldn't be the kind of thing that county councils wanted to get involved with as they got more involved with roadside publicity.
 

TheWalrus

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2008
Messages
2,038
Location
UK
I would like a simpler fare stage system in my city as follows:
Up to 3 stops £1
Up to 1 mile £1.30
1-2 miles £2
2-3 miles £2.20
3-4 miles £2.40
4-5 miles £2.60
5-6 miles or day rider boundary, between £2.60 and £3. Fares capped at 50p per mile.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you think these fares are reasonable?
 

PeterC

Established Member
Joined
29 Sep 2014
Messages
4,431
Two fares for under a mile is excessive. Distance based fares can be a problem if routes are varied. We had two routes combined to to run in a loop through two outlying villages. My journey home is either 5 miles or 1.5 miles depending on time of day.
 

radamfi

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2009
Messages
9,267
What are your thoughts on this? Do you think these fares are reasonable?

Not easy to buy singles away from the driver with that kind of fare structure. Unless you have a Dutch style touch-in touch-out system.
 

transmanche

Established Member
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
6,018
What are your thoughts on this? Do you think these fares are reasonable?
I would favour a zonal system. For Tyne & Wear, I would revert back to using the original fare zones- rather than the current mess.*

1 zone £1.50
2 zones £2.00
3 zones £2.50
4 zones £3.00
5 or more zones £3.50

I would make them all TransFares and like the London Buses hopper ticket, I'd allow unlimited usage on all modes within a set time limit - 60 mins for 1 zone up to 90 mins for 5 or more zones.

(In an ideal world, I'd rather the price was:
1 or 2 zones £1.50
3 zones £2.00
4 zones £2.50
5 or more zones £3.00
but that might be unprofitable.)

Of course, all of this is moot unless and until Nexus gets the power to regulate buses and introduce a TfL style bus contracting system.

transfare_map.gif

[*] Where there is one set of zones for Metro-only singles, day tickets and seasons, another set of zones for multi-mode TransFares and a third set for Network One multi-mode season tickets. And then each bus company has its own set of zones for day tickets and seasons.
 

TheWalrus

Established Member
Joined
6 Oct 2008
Messages
2,038
Location
UK
Apologies for not making it completely clear in my original post. The fare stages would be spaced out at approximately one mile intervals from the centre. So each fare stage would become a zone, making it simpler to calculate the fare from both the driver’s and passenger’s perspective.
 

mark-h

Member
Joined
14 Jan 2015
Messages
374
Up to 3 stops

How close together are your stops? Would it save much time getting a bus (assuming that the bus is not at the stop) rather than walking?

With rising obesity rates there should be a relatively high minimum fare to encourage people to walk when they can.
 

6Gman

Established Member
Joined
1 May 2012
Messages
8,854
I suspect this might be because of changes in the industry - the bus garage is probably no longer in your nearest town, the driver probably now lives even further away, asking for (say) the Doggy Hotel is lost on the driver because it closed five years ago and has been converted into flats called Husky House so when you say that it is the second turning after you leave Middle Somewhere the driver knows what to enter into his machine. The stop is actually called 'The Larches' after the local road but locals still call it Bottom Lane which was what it was called before a developer persuaded the local council to change it.

:D When I was a lad (1960s) our local bus stop near Llandudno was called Ffon Tom (Welsh for Tom's Stick !). It's only recently I discovered that the stop was named after the owner of a local shop (his name was Tom and he used a stick). The shop was demolished in the 1920s. Good luck asking the Bangor-based Polish driver of the Arriva bus for a ticket to "Ffon Tom" ...
 

Darklord8899

Member
Joined
6 Jul 2018
Messages
690
In Edinburgh, Lothian used to run a fare stage system.
A fare stage was approximately every 1/2 mile. I think this lasted to the mid 90's after which a flat fare was introduced.
Zonal fares are again appearing as Lothian Buses now are running further a field with East Coast Buses and Lothian Country Buses, but still operate a flat fare within Edinburgh and it's immediate environs.
I think the issue with the fare stages is that it does rely on passenger honesty and I suspect that if someone was travelling to the next stop after a fare stage that the cheaper price would be paid.
There are far less ticket checks required with a flat fare than with stages as well (ie money saved as don't need to pay inspectors to check tickets)
 

ooo

Member
Joined
8 Jun 2015
Messages
707
Location
S
From next month First in Bristol will be moving to a flat fare system rather than distance based .
 

krus_aragon

Established Member
Joined
10 Jun 2009
Messages
6,101
Location
North Wales
:D When I was a lad (1960s) our local bus stop near Llandudno was called Ffon Tom (Welsh for Tom's Stick !). It's only recently I discovered that the stop was named after the owner of a local shop (his name was Tom and he used a stick). The shop was demolished in the 1920s. Good luck asking the Bangor-based Polish driver of the Arriva bus for a ticket to "Ffon Tom" ...
The automatic stop announcements on the 5 and X5 have decided that it's now called Fon Tom (and pronounced "Von Tom"), which makes even less sense. Thanks for helping me understand where the name comes from.
 

carlberry

Established Member
Joined
19 Dec 2014
Messages
3,169
I would favour a zonal system. For Tyne & Wear, I would revert back to using the original fare zones- rather than the current mess.*


Of course, all of this is moot unless and until Nexus gets the power to regulate buses and introduce a TfL style bus contracting system.

[*] Where there is one set of zones for Metro-only singles, day tickets and seasons, another set of zones for multi-mode TransFares and a third set for Network One multi-mode season tickets. And then each bus company has its own set of zones for day tickets and seasons.
Nexus dosent need any extra power to allow it to change fares and introduce zonal systems. It can enter into an agreement with operators and even subsidise fares if it wants with current legislation. All it needs is the willingness to do it and, to reduce fares, loads of money.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top