What is the definition of a "taxi"?

[43066]

Moderator note split from

When might night tube reopen?

Anybody in the know heard any rumours about when the night tube might get back up and running ? Leisure travel has picked up much better than commuter travel, is has to be reaching close to pre-pandemic demands, judging by the crush on the last trains of the night on friday/saturday.

www.railforums.co.uk

[The above was in response to Taunton saying:
Clearly written by someone who never travelled on the Night Tube. The safe, low crime environment is surely a taxi.]

You [43066] are mixing up taxis with "mini-cabs" here. The latter can indeed often be dodgy. London licensed taxis very very rarely so. "Mini-cabs", private hire, Ubers, etc, are not taxis.

To be pedantic black cabs are hackney carriages, which can ply for hire, whereas minicabs cannot. Both are taxis according to the generally understood definition of the word.

You’re right they’re generally a safer bet, albeit I’ve also had some rather bad experiences with black cabs (in a previous life I used them a fair bit for work). They’re also rather beyond the price range of your average Londoner, albeit Uber is often also ludicrously expensive and increasingly unreliable in my recent experience.

 

[miklcct]

Both are taxis according to the generally understood definition of the word.

My understanding about a taxi is a vehicle which can be hailed on street, and charged according to the taximeter, while a "private hire vehicle" meets neither of these. Also, regulation specifies that the word "taxi" can only be used on hackney carriages. For example, the hackney carriages operated by United Taxis have the company label stuck using the full name, but the private hire vehicles operated by the same company can only mention "United" but not the word "Taxis" on the label.

I understand a "private hire vehicle" is a "limousine" rather than a "taxi", which must be pre-booked and generally with the charge pre-determined before starting the trip.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Taxi originates from Greek (taxis) and is a short version of the French taximetre (sorry, can't post grave accents). Latin version is taxa; "to tax, or charge a fee"

Taxi: origin of the word and history of the modern day taxi | Staxi

Which word came first: taxi or taximeter? Find out in our blog about the origin and history of the Amsterdam and New York taxi.

www.staxi.nl

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's worth noting that in most provincial towns Hackney carriages barely or don't exist, and thus private hire vehicles are normally known as "taxis", even if they are legally not.

 

[BanburyBlue]

It's worth noting that in most provincial towns Hackney carriages barely or don't exist, and thus private hire vehicles are normally known as "taxis", even if they are legally not.

Not sure about this. Any town that has a taxi rank must have Hackney Carriages?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Not sure about this. Any town that has a taxi rank must have Hackney Carriages?

But not necessarily very many of them. To take Slough as the town I know best, there is a taxi rank for the use of hackneys outside Slough station. That is the only place you will find a hackney, and the sole purpose of registering a car as a hackney is so that you can pick up the station trade. The rest of the taxi trade is done by pre-booked private hire cars. You will not be able to hail a car anywhere in the borough - there are so few hackneys that I strongl;y suspect that they don't cruise looking for trade but take a fare from the station, and then run back empty.

The practical solution to the question in the top post is not to try and define 'taxi' narrowly. Instead, if you're talking about cars you can hail, talk about hackneys: if you're talking about cars which must be pre-booked, talk about private hire cars (everywhere) or minicabs (London).

 

[43066]

My understanding about a taxi is a vehicle which can be hailed on street, and charged according to the taximeter, while a "private hire vehicle" meets neither of these. Also, regulation specifies that the word "taxi" can only be used on hackney carriages. For example, the hackney carriages operated by United Taxis have the company label stuck using the full name, but the private hire vehicles operated by the same company can only mention "United" but not the word "Taxis" on the label.

I understand a "private hire vehicle" is a "limousine" rather than a "taxi", which must be pre-booked and generally with the charge pre-determined before starting the trip.

Most people use taxi and cab interchangeably, and probably aren’t aware of the subtle difference between a true Hackney Carriage (which has a meter and can ply for hire) and a private hire vehicle/mini cab. The rise of Uber, Bolt etc has blurred the lines even further.

Certainly in London people will refer to black taxis/cabs when they mean a hackney carriage. But equally people will talk about “work sending a taxi for me” when what they mean is a private hire vehicle.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not sure about this. Any town that has a taxi rank must have Hackney Carriages?

If there is a rank. I can't for instance think of one anywhere in Ormskirk.

But even in MK they are a small minority, known as disreputable and irrelevant to most people.

 

[lkpridgeon]

there are so few hackneys that I strongl;y suspect that they don't cruise looking for trade but take a fare from the station, and then run back empty.

From my experience the hackey carriages also tend to be private hire vehicles (pre-book) to help reduce the running back empty.

 

[SargeNpton]

It's worth noting that in most provincial towns Hackney carriages barely or don't exist, and thus private hire vehicles are normally known as "taxis", even if they are legally not.

Northampton has a large contingent of taxis (both the classic Black Cab and other vehicle types), which are quite distinct from the also large contingent of mini-cabs.

 

[172007]

All this argument over the definition of a Hackney carriage is blown out of the water by the likes of Uber and also most big city private hire. By using the app you can effectively hire the cab parked next to you and it is then prebooked and you just jump in; worst case is that one is a mile away. They all have meters now as the apps charge per however the algorithm is set.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All this argument over the definition of a Hackney carriage is blown out of the water by the likes of Uber and also most big city private hire. By using the app you can effectively hire the cab parked next to you and it is then prebooked and you just jump in; worst case is that one is a mile away. They all have meters now as the apps charge per however the algorithm is set.

It's of note that there were legal cases surrounding whether the app counted as a meter in some cases, as in some cities (e.g. London) private hire cars can't use meters. However this isn't universally true - while the MK private hire firms are now all app-based, previously they did have classic meters used even when on private hire work and this was allowed.

 

[GusB]

Around here all 'taxis', whether they're on hackney or private hire licenses, are usually standard cars or MPVs. We did have a couple of Metrocabs around a few years ago, and there was one driver who had a TX1, but they're only really practical around town and not so suitable for airport hires.

Most private hire cars are fitted with meters as they're permitted to charge the same rates, although some operators will offer fixed fares. The only external difference is the illuminated sign on the roof and the colour of the license plate. Those with private hire licences are obviously not permitted to pick up on the street or at a street rank, but to all intents and purposes they're the same thing as most will book by phone (I don't think app booking is a thing here just yet!)

Some local authorities will specify that a certain type of vehicle is required for a hackney licence (ie one that can carry a wheelchair), but there is no standard across the UK as far as I'm aware.

 

[DarloRich]

But even in MK they are a small minority, known as disreputable and irrelevant to most people.

There is a big rank outside MKC! The cost back home now is not that different between a black cab and a mini cab. Say £13/£9 ( it used to be £13/£6!

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is a big rank outside MKC!

There is, but it is about the only place they are found.

The cost back home now is not that different between a black cab and a mini cab. Say £13/£9 ( it used to be £13/£6!

I wouldn't use them if it was cheaper. They are highly disreputable, for instance I have had a number of cases of refusal to use the meter. Booking and payment by card via the company's app avoids any such shystery.

 

[DarloRich]

There is, but it is about the only place they are found.



I wouldn't use them if it was cheaper. They are highly disreputable, for instance I have had a number of cases of refusal to use the meter.

I have had that - it is just the same as any cash in hand job - suits me if it saves me money

PS black cab drivers have never got Fenny Stratford and Stony Stratford "confused" when setting off. ( Fenny S is south of MK with Stony S just equidistant from MK to the north in the opposite direction)

 

[43066]

I have had that - it is just the same as any cash in hand job - suits me if it saves me money

PS black cab drivers have never got Fenny Stratford and Stony Stratford "confused" when setting off. ( Fenny S is south of MK with Stony S just equidistant from MK to the north in the opposite direction)

These aren’t proper London black cabs who’ve done the knowledge?! Just people who’ve stumped up for a PCO license and whatever the local council stipulates presumably?

 

[TSWFan2020]

a motor vehicle licensed to transport passengers in return for payment of a fare and typically fitted with a taximeter.

 

[Roger1973]

As others have said, there is no legal concept of 'taxi' - legally there are hackney carriages and private hire vehicles.

In some places, hackney carriages have to be 'black cabs' (or carry a specific livery) or wheelchair accessible, and almost invariably need to have a taximeter. Some places expect private hire cars to have taximeters, some places won't allow it.

Some councils will license horse powered hackney carriages (Blackpool, for example) and don't think there are taximeters calibrated to horses.

You can use a HC to do a private hire (pre-booked) journey, but not vice versa.

The last significant update of law was in 1976 (when it became possible for councils to license private hire - although some didn't for some years after that - 'minicabs' in London weren't licensed at all until (I think) after the GLA was formed in 2000) so the law doesn't really recognise the concept of mobile phones, let alone these new fangled 'app' things.

While the requirement to carry a bale of hay is an urban myth, some aspects of hackney carriage licensing law do date back to Victorian legislation (The Town Police Clauses Act 1847) - it's technically illegal to leave a hackney carriage unattended (even if legally parked, with the engine off and handbrake on) on the public highway, in case the horse bolts. Although case law has made this obsolete - a magistrate more or less said 'don't be silly' the last time it was prosecuted. And the common condition that hackney carriage drivers don't have to accept a fare for more than X miles is based on welfare of the horse/s.

There was a serious proposal to review the law round hackney / private hire licensing, which surfaced about 10 years ago, but the politicians got a bit preoccupied with the minor question of EU membership, and it sank without trace.

 

[miklcct]

a motor vehicle licensed to transport passengers in return for payment of a fare and typically fitted with a taximeter.

Mostly correct, the word "typically" needs to be removed

As others have said, there is no legal concept of 'taxi' - legally there are hackney carriages and private hire vehicles.

The word "taxi" is legally restricted that it can only be used on a hackney carriage but not private hire vehicles in the UK. Therefore a "taxi" is a hackney carriage here and it's legally wrong to call a private hire vehicle a "taxi". And nowadays, with very few exceptions, hackney carriages are required to have a taximeter installed, so the word "taxi" is basically synonymous with the legal term "hackney carriage" here.

Compare to Hong Kong, where taxi exists as a legal term with the requirement for a taximeter to be installed.

 

[GusB]

The word "taxi" is legally restricted that it can only be used on a hackney carriage but not private hire vehicles in the UK. Therefore a "taxi" is a hackney carriage here and it's legally wrong to call a private hire vehicle a "taxi". And nowadays, with very few exceptions, hackney carriages are required to have a taximeter installed, so the word "taxi" is basically synonymous with the legal term "hackney carriage" here.

Chambers – Search Chambers

Search Chambers Consult Chambers 21st Century Dictionary, The Chambers Thesaurus (1996) or Chambers Biographical Dictionary (1997 edition with amendments). Enter your search and choose your title from the drop-down menu.

chambers.co.uk

taxi noun (taxis or taxies) a car which may be hired together with its driver to carry passengers on usually short journeys, and which is usually fitted with a taximeter for calculating the fare. Also called taxicab.

The dictionary definition simply says "a car which may be hired together with its driver". It doesn't mention whether it's a hackney carriage or private hire, nor how the car is hired. Also note the use of the word "usually" in reference to a taximeter.

Could you please provide a link to the relevant legislation that says it's legally wrong to call a private hire vehicle a taxi? I've seen large taxi companies that have a mixture of both licence types in their fleets (I also worked for one) and cars often carry "xxxx Taxis" branding regardless of which licence they are operated under.

If what you say is correct then it would be illegal for any company which advertises its services as, for example, "Dave's Taxis" to operate anything other than a vehicle that carries a hackney plate.

 

[ComUtoR]

Chambers – Search Chambers

Search Chambers Consult Chambers 21st Century Dictionary, The Chambers Thesaurus (1996) or Chambers Biographical Dictionary (1997 edition with amendments). Enter your search and choose your title from the drop-down menu.

chambers.co.uk

The dictionary definition simply says "a car which may be hired together with its driver". It doesn't mention whether it's a hackney carriage or private hire, nor how the car is hired. Also note the use of the word "usually" in reference to a taximeter.

Introduction - What is the difference between a taxi and a private hire vehicle? - Telford & Wrekin Council

Information on Taxi and Private Hire Licensing.

www.telford.gov.uk

This link will help you understand the difference.

Taxi & private hire

General information aimed at taxi and private hire drivers, owners and operators

tfl.gov.uk

This link will provide you with further information and links to the legislation and other regulatory information

 

[GusB]

Introduction - What is the difference between a taxi and a private hire vehicle? - Telford & Wrekin Council

Information on Taxi and Private Hire Licensing.

www.telford.gov.uk

This link will help you understand the difference.

Taxi & private hire

General information aimed at taxi and private hire drivers, owners and operators

tfl.gov.uk

This link will provide you with further information and links to the legislation and other regulatory information

I'm fully aware of the differences between hackney and private hire licences; I was asking the previous poster to explain why it is illegal to use the word 'taxi'.

The links you have posted aren't really all that helpful, considering that different licensing bodies will each have their own version of the rules. I note that Telford stipulate wheelchair accessibility for their hackney licences, but this is not the same across the whole country. I think it's more or less agreed that 'hackney' means hire on the street or rank and 'private hire' is restricted to pre-bookings only

Transport for London has its own way of doing things.

 

[miklcct]

The dictionary definition simply says "a car which may be hired together with its driver". It doesn't mention whether it's a hackney carriage or private hire, nor how the car is hired. Also note the use of the word "usually" in reference to a taximeter.

Could you please provide a link to the relevant legislation that says it's legally wrong to call a private hire vehicle a taxi? I've seen large taxi companies that have a mixture of both licence types in their fleets (I also worked for one) and cars often carry "xxxx Taxis" branding regardless of which licence they are operated under.

If what you say is correct then it would be illegal for any company which advertises its services as, for example, "Dave's Taxis" to operate anything other than a vehicle that carries a hackney plate.

The definition is given by Department for Transport, Statutory Taxi & Private Hire Vehicle Standards:

Terminology
Taxis are referred to in legislation, regulation and common language as
‘hackney carriages’, ‘black cabs’ and ‘cabs’. The term ‘taxi’ is used throughout
this document and refers to all such vehicles. Taxis can be hired immediately
by hailing on the street or at a rank.
Private hire vehicles include a range of vehicles including minicabs, executive
cars, chauffeur services, limousines and some school and day centre transport
services. All private hire vehicle journeys must be pre-booked via a licensed
private hire vehicle operator and are subject to a ‘triple licensing lock’ i.e. the

operator fulfilling the booking must use vehicles and drivers licensed by the
same authority as that which granted its licence. The term ‘private hire vehicle’
is used throughout this document to refer to all such vehicles.

An example of council regulation can be found in Southampton Private Hire Vehicle Policy And Conditions:

7.4 Provided always that no advertisement permitted by these conditions shall
consist of or include the words "taxi" or "cab" whether in the singular or plural or
"hire" or any word of similar meaning or appearance of any other feature which
may suggest that the vehicle is a hackney carriage, and no advertisement, sign,
notice, mark, illumination or other feature shall be placed on the licensed private
hire vehicle without the prior approval of the Service Manager for Licensing.

7.5 No combination of letters or numbers must be used in the registration number of
the vehicle to indicate or imply the words "taxi" or "cab" or any related idea which
could lead a member of the public to take the view that the vehicle is a hackney
carriage.

8.7 Provided always that this identification shall not consist of or include the words
"taxi" or "cab" whether in the singular or plural or "hire" or any word of similar
meaning or appearance of any other feature which may suggest that the vehicle
is a hackney carriage and shall not be placed on the licensed private hire vehicle
without the Service Manager for Licensing prior approval.

Therefore, the words "taxi" and "cab" are equivalent with "hackney carriage".

 

[route101]

I was wondering. Why do some cities in the UK have black hacks and some don't?

 

[Ken H]

I was wondering. Why do some cities in the UK have black hacks and some don't?

Local authority licencing rules.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I was wondering. Why do some cities in the UK have black hacks and some don't?

I'm not sure if the question is
1) why do some cities have black painted Hackneys, or
2) why do some cities have vehicles which are overwhelmingly 'London type' taxis, or
3) why do some cities have Hackneys and some only private hire cars.

For (1), some city authorities have defined colour schemes for their Hackneys ( off the top of my head, blue in Bristol, black with a white bonnet in Nottingham) while others are less prescriptive on the look of the cars.

For (2), it's partly that again some councils are prescriptive on the type of vehicle such that only a 'London Taxi' will do - but tradition plays a part. For example, Sefton (Merseyside) has one set of rules (unsurprising as it has been one authority for 48 years) but Hackneys based in Southport tend to be saloon cars and those based in Bootle are 'London Taxis:' (just like neighbouring Liverpool which does require 'London Taxis').

For (3) it's partly a matter of authority size and population density - there's very little point in cruising the streets of rural Northumberland hoping to pick up a fare as you won't be passing many potential passengers - and I suspect also tradition; I've referenced Slough above as having a few Hackneys which hang around the station, but in general won't look to be flagged down in the street as neither the taxis nor potential fares expect it to happen.

 

[route101]

Edinburgh and Glasgow have black hackneys. Newcastle has black coloured taxis but can be regular cars.