When to apply?

[Simon Kelly]

Hi,

I'm taking voluntary redundancy from my City job in September and looking to get a trainee driver position. Should I apply if see any positions come up now or wait. What is a normal timescale from application to being contacted by a TOC on average please?

Thanks

Simon

 

[driver9000]

See the job, apply for it. It can take weeks and it can months for TOCs to work through their recruitment stages. Some have waited years. They aren't known for their speed though.

 

[CatchMeIfUCan]

Don't take your redundancy just yet. Apply and wait to gain some progress. After completing Psychometric & mmi tests, I'd suggest you decide to take your redundancy then. Average timescale would be 1 month - 3 months.

 

[Simon Kelly]

Don't take your redundancy just yet. Apply and wait to gain some progress. After completing Psychometric & mmi tests, I'd suggest you decide to take your redundancy then. Average timescale would be 1 month - 3 months.

I don't leave until 30th September so just trying to get some irons in the fire now so that I'm not left hanging around for too long after that. Thanks for the response.

 

[EastMidsMatt]

Apply as soon as something is advertised. Depending on where you apply you can end up waiting for 18-24 months for vacancies to arise again.
Good luck.

 

[Simon Kelly]

I'm looking at SouthEastern Govia and Crossrail so far. Has anyone attended one of the How 2 become day courses and if so do you recommend this?

 

[EastMidsMatt]

I wouldn't bother.
If you can do the psychometric tests you can do them, if you can't you can't and practicing really doesn't improve things significantly. You can find lots of practice material on here and the toc will send you more.
The interviews are not much different from interviews you'll have done previously, just remember it's safety, safety, safety.
The most difficult part of the recruitment process is getting through the application stage. It's all about matching your experiences to the competencies they look for. Most HR staff can probably see through the 'How2' applications and will probably reject them, they want genuine, honest applications so take your time with it and sell yourself.

 

[Simon Kelly]

Ok thanks for the feedback. I have been looking at getting some test books and discs that i can practice with. Got a few mates who are drivers too so am getting tips from them aswell.

 

[Monopoli]

I wouldn't bother.
If you can do the psychometric tests you can do them, if you can't you can't and practicing really doesn't improve things significantly. You can find lots of practice material on here and the toc will send you more.
The interviews are not much different from interviews you'll have done previously, just remember it's safety, safety, safety.
The most difficult part of the recruitment process is getting through the application stage. It's all about matching your experiences to the competencies they look for. Most HR staff can probably see through the 'How2' applications and will probably reject them, they want genuine, honest applications so take your time with it and sell yourself.

Me personally I bought two books from them that gave me an insight on the process. It helped a lot. Current awaiting interviews for trainee train driver jobs.

 

[Simon Kelly]

Me personally I bought two books from them that gave me an insight on the process. It helped a lot. Current awaiting interviews for trainee train driver jobs.

Ok thanks for that.

 

[EastMidsMatt]

Me personally I bought two books from them that gave me an insight on the process. It helped a lot. Current awaiting interviews for trainee train driver jobs.

Good for you.
I was responding to the question about the day courses. I've completed the whole recruitment process and it's only my opinion but I think it is unnecessary to spend any money on the recruitment process. Good luck with however you choose to approach it!

 

[Simon Kelly]

Good for you.
I was responding to the question about the day courses. I've completed the whole recruitment process and it's only my opinion but I think it is unnecessary to spend any money on the recruitment process. Good luck with however you choose to approach it!

It would seem like a bit of a money spinner as they cover all different careers not just train driving. I have bought a cd rom from them with some tests on which hopefully will give me some insights. I'm thinking a lot of the process is selling yourself properly and common sense.

 

[fastfall]

Having gone through the entire process last year with GTR just a word of caution with your last sentance. Yes you will need to sell yourself with the Managers Interview but this is only one part. The testing part is key and nothing to do with personality just designed to measure suitability. I agree with an earlier poster that you either can or cannot do these tests but only to a point. You can definity improve your results with practice especially the Group Bourdon Test, when I did the assesments this is where most fell down and were sent home!!

Good luck and watch out for vacancies every day and apply asap as they usually get taken down long before their advertised closing date!

 

[DerekDingle]

pay to do your psychometric at Db cargo in Doncaster if you’re serious. Pass it and you’ll be one step ahead of other candidates and can forward your cv on to all tocs and focs. It’s one hurdle they’ll know you’ve crossed on your own. Companies like colas have taken on people off the street this way and put them through training for a licence to drive on track machines. I have friends who’ve done just that. I know they have Work down south too, so might be looking for people in your area... one way in. Then you can possibly get a job on passengers but more likely freight first and then on to passengers after a couple of years experience.

 

[EastMidsMatt]

pay to do your psychometric at Db cargo in Doncaster if you’re serious. Pass it and you’ll be one step ahead of other candidates and can forward your cv on to all tocs and focs. It’s one hurdle they’ll know you’ve crossed on your own. Companies like colas have taken on people off the street this way and put them through training for a licence to drive on track machines. I have friends who’ve done just that. I know they have Work down south too, so might be looking for people in your area... one way in. Then you can possibly get a job on passengers but more likely freight first and then on to passengers after a couple of years experience.

I wouldn't pay for the psychometrics simply because a lot of toc's have 'enhanced standards' these days. There's no way to know what enhanced means but passing with db to national standards means you'll just end up having to retake them to get up to the enhanced pass level. Plus taking them with db means you'll have a time limit in place from the moment you pass. In theory they're valid for 5 years but East Midlands Trains, for example, only allow 2 years in which to succeed in getting a job and then you'd need to redo them anyway.
Each to their own but I'd advise that you take the tests at the toc's expense

 

[DerekDingle]

Unfortunately you are wrong about that. With the train driver psychometric testing in each area, you get graded, fail, borderline pass, pass and a pass with distinction (or something similar sounding to that, meaning you have a pass mark we’ll above standard).

At the end of the psychometric, you are told just pass or fail. As that’s all that matters. But the ToC or FoC can actually apply to the place you took the test, which includes DB Cargo and they can tell them what the particular pass mark is in each area.

So I’m assuming the enhanced mark, is the distinction pass you’re referring to. It’s the same test set by the RSSB with whoever you take it with, as it’s industry standard and the bench mark.

Some will obviously just accept the pass mark whatever the outcome overall and some would probably like to see the overall at the higher mark, probably because of the high amount of applications.

But surely going off your own back and passing it yourself would make you stand out, would it not?

Whether you get the pass or enhanced pass, will depend on how good you are at the test. And if you don’t get the company you initially want due to that, at least you’d have the first hurdle passed and potentially get in with another company who would provide your training.

Once you have the licence and experience, you would apply as a qualified driver, so the psychometric isn’t resat again. Wait for to take it at the TOCs expense but your application might not get that far in the first place. I was route learning on a virgin last year and he told me there was 15000 applications for the east coast mainline trainee positions.

So surely doing this off your own back would show initiative and set you apart from other applicants? But all depends on how much you really want the job and how your willing to get it. Even if it means going by a more non standard route in, if the first is closed off to you!

 

[tiptoptaff]

But many TOCs don't recognise OTM driving as mainline qualified driving and still require you to start as a trainee. So there can be little value in going that way if you want to be a mainline driver.

 

[RBSN]

I became a qualified in July 2017 for Northern and what I would say with the experience I have going through the whole process is this;

The “How to become a train driver” books and DVDs, etc are crap and a waste of money. Seriously, don’t bother. It won’t get you ahead of anyone else.

The only thing that ‘could’ put you slightly ahead is having passed your psychometric tests prior. But it’s certainly not a guarantee, even with an enhanced pass mark.

If you’re applying to become a trainee; the course (if you’re lucky enough to get a placement) is not for the faint hearted. It’s pretty gruling, especially those of you who have a family.

In order to pass, they will have to take a back-seat for at least 12 months and including the build up to Mod7 week.

Being a trainee isn’t easy so make sure it really is what you want to do!

 

[DerekDingle]

Of Course there’s value! Because you get a full European train driving licence! It’s the way I did it! That’s why I’m giving the advice, as I know it works and has done for other colleagues! When applying for roles, I spoke to most HR companies or drivers whilst route learning and asked their advice or company policies. Some will take you direct from driving OTMs, as long as you have sufficient route knowledge and experience. Others will take you down the trainee route, but it’s basically just a resit of your rules and a traction course and hours. Which will be a lot quicker than a normal trainee. Other than that, you will get taken on by Freight Companies because of your possession experience and then from there, you will have even further experience and route knowledge which, if added to the personality the ToCs require, you will have no problem getting a job at TOC. All I was doing was explaining another route for getting in to driving. If your blinkered and just go one way, you could get nowhere. So just explains other valid possibilities.

Also don’t shoot down On Track Machine Drivers, we are probably the most experienced drivers on the railway. They have vast route knowledge signing sidings and branch lines that only some people use and probably do more unorthodox moves on a weekly basis, that passenger train drivers do in a year!

 

[tiptoptaff]

Also don’t shoot down On Track Machine Drivers, we are probably the most experienced drivers on the railway. They have vast route knowledge signing sidings and branch lines that only some people use and probably do more unorthodox moves on a weekly basis, that passenger train drivers do in a year!

I'd argue my 50year seniority men are far more experienced drivers than an OTM driver who's been doing a couple of years. Route knowledge doesn't equal experience.

 

[EastMidsMatt]

Unfortunately you are wrong about that. With the train driver psychometric testing in each area, you get graded, fail, borderline pass, pass and a pass with distinction (or something similar sounding to that, meaning you have a pass mark we’ll above standard).

At the end of the psychometric, you are told just pass or fail. As that’s all that matters. But the ToC or FoC can actually apply to the place you took the test, which includes DB Cargo and they can tell them what the particular pass mark is in each area.

So I’m assuming the enhanced mark, is the distinction pass you’re referring to. It’s the same test set by the RSSB with whoever you take it with, as it’s industry standard and the bench mark.

Some will obviously just accept the pass mark whatever the outcome overall and some would probably like to see the overall at the higher mark, probably because of the high amount of applications.

But surely going off your own back and passing it yourself would make you stand out, would it not?

Whether you get the pass or enhanced pass, will depend on how good you are at the test. And if you don’t get the company you initially want due to that, at least you’d have the first hurdle passed and potentially get in with another company who would provide your training.

Once you have the licence and experience, you would apply as a qualified driver, so the psychometric isn’t resat again. Wait for to take it at the TOCs expense but your application might not get that far in the first place. I was route learning on a virgin last year and he told me there was 15000 applications for the east coast mainline trainee positions.

So surely doing this off your own back would show initiative and set you apart from other applicants? But all depends on how much you really want the job and how your willing to get it. Even if it means going by a more non standard route in, if the first is closed off to you!

My point is why pay when you have no prior knowledge of how well you'll do and what standard the toc is looking for?? Even enhanced passes vary between tocs. And my point about the time limit remains a valid one.
I'm not here to argue, I'm trying to give the op, and any others who read this, reasonable points to mull over which hopefully will inform their decision. There is by no means one way to do this.

 

[EastMidsMatt]

I also know of a few people who who applied for the depot driver role at East Midlands who had passed the tests to enhanced level with other tocs, they put this in the application and didn't get past the first sift so it's debatable how advantageous it is

 

[Simon Kelly]

I am taking all these opinions on board as you need to see both sides. Long and short is i'm looking for new career come October 1st. Is my age going to count against me do you think? I'm 46 now and looking at a complete change. Will TOC's look at older applicants I still have at least 20 years worklife left all being well. Also any tips on filling the application form when it comes up?

 

[EastMidsMatt]

I am taking all these opinions on board as you need to see both sides. Long and short is i'm looking for new career come October 1st. Is my age going to count against me do you think? I'm 46 now and looking at a complete change. Will TOC's look at older applicants I still have at least 20 years worklife left all being well. Also any tips on filling the application form when it comes up?

People do the same as you in their 50's so you'll be fine. As I said earlier the application form is all about matching your experiences with the competencies they want. As an example, tell us about a time you worked well under pressure? Or, tell us when you had to put safety above all else? It's that type of thing you will need to respond to. This forum is full of useful information about the recruitment process.

 

[Simon Kelly]

Thats

People do the same as you in their 50's so you'll be fine. As I said earlier the application form is all about matching your experiences with the competencies they want. As an example, tell us about a time you worked well under pressure? Or, tell us when you had to put safety above all else? It's that type of thing you will need to respond to. This forum is full of useful information about the recruitment process.

That's comforting to know then. I've also seen recommendations to take another position with a TOC just to get a foot in the door then apply for a trainee driver position when it arises.

 

[CoreXII]

I applied in August 2015 and am currently in a talent pool.
I believe most of the others who applied during the time I did are starting in a few weeks, so it's been a long process.

 

[Simon Kelly]

That's not so comforting to know Maybe once the franchise is sorted with SouthEastern then things may move on a bit quicker fingers crossed.

 

[DerekDingle]

Tiptoptaff your, my length is longer than your length point is irrelevant here sir, as it was a different kettle of fish when you started on the railway so, no comparison. Was it an extremely popular career choice back then, with thousands of applicants for each trainee passenger job and did you have to take the psychometric test? No, so you’ve missed my point. All I’m trying to do is help the original poster, as I and others I know, have been in similar positions. So on this matter, my experience of the situation, is probably more relevant than yours! Also when I was on OTMs I’ve seen passenger drivers panic, when having to pass signals at danger due to signal failure or being routed differently, because all they’ve done is run to green signals 95% of the time, so experience can count for nothing in some aspects.Enjoy your retirement sir, sounds like you’ve deserved it!
And plus I was only trying to give the original poster some advice on different options and not being blinkered and going for the only option available. I know though, if I had equal two candidates and one had been proactive in paying for the test, then it’s a no brainer who to choose! And it’s no cost to the company. Although some do refund you if paid for it yourself and you start employment with them! You can also ask the centre who tests your to let you know your pass grades if passed. So you can know who to apply to, if you have the enhanced pass and who to not. Remember you only have two passes available. Fail twice and you cannot resit the psychometric again, even with different TOCS!

Simon your age is fine, as long as you pass the application requirements ie first sieve, psychometric, interview and medical. I started in my late thirties and had people in the forties starting as trainees after me.

Hope this helps. Good luck with the applications.

 

[Simon Kelly]

Thanks DerekDingle some good feedback there. Just got to keep checking the vacancies pages and apply as soon as I see them. They did advertise for Slade Green depot recently but I didn't apply then as i knew i wasn't leaving my job until September this year. This looks like I made an error now but fingers crossed something will come u in the very near future. Thanks everyone for taking time to respond to my thread much appreciated.