EbbwJunction1
Established Member
- Joined
- 25 Mar 2010
- Messages
- 1,565
Come to Keighley. You'll see it every day there (usual, outside plague times comment goes here).
No, thanks!
Come to Keighley. You'll see it every day there (usual, outside plague times comment goes here).
As a non-smoker that was all too clear! Travelling out of St Pancras the front coach of the HST would be non-smoking but the second was the smoker. Walking through the train to get to that haven of clean air it wasn't just the smell. You could see the thick haze, and the roof of that carriage was a darkening brown colour when the rest of the train was still cream!And as a smoker at the time it was a nightmare, it was often the most crowded coach on the train as fellow smokers descended from all other parts of the train to light up!
In about 1997, shortly after privatisation, Midland Mainline moved the Standard Class smoking coach on its HSTs from Coach B to Coach A (the TGS), which IMO is what BR should have done in the first place (or at least when they first changed from each coach being half smoking and half non-smoking to having smoking in one coach only in about the late 1980s).As a non-smoker that was all too clear! Travelling out of St Pancras the front coach of the HST would be non-smoking but the second was the smoker. Walking through the train to get to that haven of clean air it wasn't just the smell. You could see the thick haze, and the roof of that carriage was a darkening brown colour when the rest of the train was still cream!
It was much the same on double deck buses where smoking wasn't allowed on the bottom deck so the upper saloon was similarly hazy with a brown roof.
Probably a hang-over from the days of loco+rake of Mk1 coaches. Provided you had a BG (brake guard) in the formation pretty much any other coaches upto the required number could be coupled together to form a rake. Having mixed smoking and non smoking coaches obviously made it easier and with corridor compartments there wasn't the problem with smoke drift.I could never understand why a coach was half smoking and half non smoking, so there was no escape from the fumes, rather than having a smoking only carriage and fully non-smoking carriages.
BG was Brake Gangway and was the type with no passenger accommodation, just a compartment for the guard, and gangway connection to the rest of the train. Just about anything with the type code starting with a B could be used, and there were quite a few including BPOT (Post Office Tender with Brake Compartment) or BSOT (Brake Second Open with Trolley Micro-Buffet).Probably a hang-over from the days of loco+rake of Mk1 coaches. Provided you had a BG (brake guard) in the formation pretty much any other coaches upto the required number could be coupled together to form a rake. Having mixed smoking and non smoking coaches obviously made it easier and with corridor compartments there wasn't the problem with smoke drift.
Worth noting for future travel post covid........either a great incentive to avoid or use depending on your habits.Air China still permits smoking on flights. When the flight departs a UK airport. They are not allowed to smoke on board when the door is open (as it's subject to UK laws) soon as the door is closed it is permitted.
Air koryo as well.
Exactly, until probably about the mid to late 1980s most trains (apart from HSTs and most multiple units) weren't formed of fixed formation sets of coaches.Probably a hang-over from the days of loco+rake of Mk1 coaches. Provided you had a BG (brake guard) in the formation pretty much any other coaches upto the required number could be coupled together to form a rake. Having mixed smoking and non smoking coaches obviously made it easier and with corridor compartments there wasn't the problem with smoke drift.
While thats true, back in the '80's I think the majority of non smokers would have found separate smoking and non smoking compartments far preferable to the half smoking and half non smoking open plan arrangements which were then the case on open saloon stock.In terms of there not being a problem with smoke drift in side corridor compartments, that wasn't entirely true. Smoke could drift from smoking compartments into the corridor, and from the corridor into non-smoking compartments in the days when it was allowed in the corridor (which it was in the old days).
I think you could also say that BR took a bit of a backwards step with the Mark 2Bs compared to the Mark 1s, 2As and vacuum braked Mark 2s, and again with the Mark 3s compared to the Mark 2Fs.While thats true, back in the '80's I think the majority of non smokers would have found separate smoking and non smoking compartments far preferable to the half smoking and half non smoking open plan arrangements which were then the case on open saloon stock.
BR took a bit of a backwards step with the introduction of the Sprinters which were half and half in one coach, though given they were smaller than the loco hauled trains they were replacing I doubt that provision of more than 25% of accommodation for smoking would have been acceptable.
IHG (Holiday Inn etc.) used to do it on their booking system not long since like select a smoking/non-smoking room. These days it doesn't as it susses out where you are.
Who was the first? as in a TOC.
Quite a long time between 159s being introduced with no first class smoking accommodation (1993) and smoking being banned in standard class (2004). First class had been in compartments on the loco hauled trains.South West Trains banned smoking in first class on Waterloo/Exeter services when the 3 car DMUs replaced full length loco hauled trains. The much reduced train length prevented having first class smoking and first class non smoking.
Not long afterwards they prohibited smoking on all their trains.
Actually SWT banned it in 2004, one year before the slam door EMUs were withdrawn.I think SWT were the last TOC to ban it in 2005 and it seemed the only reason they did ban it was due to the introduction of air-con 450s. They were quite happy to let smoking continue until the end of slam door stock and, as a smoker at the time, I was fortunate to commute on slam door stock right up until the end.
Air China prohibits customers from smoking on flights since 1997. It is against the regulation to smoke.Air China still permits smoking on flights. When the flight departs a UK airport. They are not allowed to smoke on board when the door is open (as it's subject to UK laws) soon as the door is closed it is permitted.
Air koryo as well.