When were train drivers banned from smoking in the cab?

[tsr]

Defiantly a giveaway when both windows are down in DVT &/or Loco. No other reason for it with A/C.

I don’t tend to do loco-hauled stuff, so no idea if ventilation is somehow miraculously better, but plenty of multiple unit cabs get so stuffy or warm that you would need all available windows open for a prolonged time. Equally, it could be someone actually being considerate - I might occasionally travel “pass” in a rear cab and eat something a bit smelly, so I’ll then open the windows for 10 minutes to make sure it’s fresh for the next person.

That said, I have found a number of instances of people smoking in cabs, which does annoy me. I’ve never cancelled a train, but often been tempted.

 

[goblinuser]

Try convincing my lungs and nasal passages, it isn't Assault. Yes, it might sound melodramatic, but I judge on the spirit of the Law, not the letter. With all the widespread knowledge of the damage caused by smoking to people's health, anyone that smokes close to a stranger clearly has no regard for that person, so in my mind is quite likely to commit premeditated violence in other circumstances. Its noticable that there used to be a pattern with unprovoked attacks (including murder) late at night, that the media would report that the attacker approached the victim and asked for "a light".

Just to clarify recordable and non recordable concerns the recording of the offend*er*, not he offence. ie. It isn't used to suggest that "minor" offences don't actually exist.

So now smokers are murderers because they only smoke so they can ask for a light in order to kill people?
What have you been smoking?

 

[Dentonian]

So now smokers are murderers because they only smoke so they can ask for a light in order to kill people?
What have you been smoking?

Ah! The curse of great exaggeration and over generalisation. I take it you are both a smoker and a journalist. FTR, I have never (actively) smoked any substance (illegal or otherwise) in my life.

 

[heedfan]

anyone that smokes close to a stranger clearly has no regard for that person, so in my mind is quite likely to commit premeditated violence in other circumstances.

I can’t tell if this is meant to be serious, but if it is, I think you’re making a frankly ludicrous leap, there.

 

[Dentonian]

So to clarify, you are suggesting that a driver who smokes in a cab at work is more likely to be a murderer?

No. You are pulling together two seperate points - although there might be a slight statistical connection. I'm saying that given the widespread evidence and communication of same, that smoking can damage people's health (including non smokers) then those that do it in a confined space whilst other people are in close proximity, clearly don't care about other people's health or well being. There may or may not be a link between smoking and more direct acts of violence, I don't know. Perhaps a more "on topic" example than the number of serious assaults where the media (who may or may not have made it up) report the assailant asking the victim for "a light" before attacking them, would be a couple of more recent items where smokers pushed people off station platforms after arguments about smoking being banned on station platforms. Though again, smoking on a station platform is nowhere near as bad as smoking on a single-decker bus.

 

[NSEFAN]

Try convincing my lungs and nasal passages, it isn't Assault. Yes, it might sound melodramatic, but I judge on the spirit of the Law, not the letter. With all the widespread knowledge of the damage caused by smoking to people's health, anyone that smokes close to a stranger clearly has no regard for that person, so in my mind is quite likely to commit premeditated violence in other circumstances. Its noticable that there used to be a pattern with unprovoked attacks (including murder) late at night, that the media would report that the attacker approached the victim and asked for "a light".

Just to clarify recordable and non recordable concerns the recording of the offend*er*, not he offence. ie. It isn't used to suggest that "minor" offences don't actually exist.

This is a bit ridiculous to say the least. Causing a problem for others by smoking is clearly antisocial, but not necessarily malicious. People do things all the time which are harmful to themselves or others (bad diets, lack of exercise, burning fossil fuels), but the effects of these aren't generally immediate and so aren't at the forefront of most peoples' minds, even though they should be.

 

[dk1]

I don’t tend to do loco-hauled stuff, so no idea if ventilation is somehow miraculously better, but plenty of multiple unit cabs get so stuffy or warm that you would need all available windows open for a prolonged time. Equally, it could be someone actually being considerate - I might occasionally travel “pass” in a rear cab and eat something a bit smelly, so I’ll then open the windows for 10 minutes to make sure it’s fresh for the next person.

That said, I have found a number of instances of people smoking in cabs, which does annoy me. I’ve never cancelled a train, but often been tempted.

I've never cancelled anything or dropped anybody in it but it is extremely selfish behaviour.

On 90/DVTs you normally wouldn't have windows open due to pressure in the cabs & also because they are on the doors & it's not possible to close whilst driving.

 

[furnessvale]

I've often wondered that, but in terms of the spirit of the law, its not the same. As mentioned in another reply, vaping doesn't stink like nicotene, although the odd one I've smelt has been like a heavily diluted fag - and AFAIK there has never been any suggestion that vaping threatens the lives/health of non-vapers/smokers.

OK, I'll suggest it.

Vapers try to convince me that all they emit when they breathe out is water vapour. Water vapour is odourless so how come what they breathe out smells so much? They are also breathing in a cocktail of chemicals, far less regulated or investigated than the old tobacco industry. Unless vapour's lungs have developed superhuman powers to extract 100% of the chemicals, but not of course the smelly ones, they are breathing their noxious cocktail into MY air!

 

[Dentonian]

OK, I'll suggest it.

Vapers try to convince me that all they emit when they breathe out is water vapour. Water vapour is odourless so how come what they breathe out smells so much? They are also breathing in a cocktail of chemicals, far less regulated or investigated than the old tobacco industry. Unless vapour's lungs have developed superhuman powers to extract 100% of the chemicals, but not of course the smelly ones, they are breathing their noxious cocktail into MY air!

Fair enough. You may well be right. All I know is that the medical profession have not suggested it is as bad for non-vapers, but they are split on the overall safety of the habit. Al I can say about the smell, is that I have never noticed a strong smell of anything coming from vapes/e-cigs or whatever, and that the weaker odours are nowhere near as putrid and nauseous as tobacco.

 

[Dentonian]

This is a bit ridiculous to say the least. Causing a problem for others by smoking is clearly antisocial, but not necessarily malicious. People do things all the time which are harmful to themselves or others (bad diets, lack of exercise, burning fossil fuels), but the effects of these aren't generally immediate and so aren't at the forefront of most peoples' minds, even though they should be.

Forefront of people's noses more like. But less facetiously, those examples aren't just less immediate but are also subject to cost and practicality, at least for some. Bad diet; if you mean burgers, crisps, take aways for every meal, then yes, you are right.
If you mean microwaved meals on the hoof because you have a strict 30 minute lunch break at work - that's different. Similarly ready/processed meals in general. As little as 20 years ago, probably every town and village had proper greengrocers and butchers. Nowadays, the best you can hope for is a limited range of fresh meat, veg and fruit at the "local" Supermarket.
Exercise yes, you could do a limited amount of exercise within the home, but for many there are no parks within walking distance and if there are, you have to encounter the "elements" to reach them and use them. Again, at work, most jobs are sedentary nowadays, and workloads means it just too easy to sit at your desk for 4+ hours at a time and forget to take recommended breaks.
Fossil fuels - does the individual really have a choice as to the source of their domestic heating?

 

[furnessvale]

Fair enough. You may well be right. All I know is that the medical profession have not suggested it is as bad for non-vapers, but they are split on the overall safety of the habit. Al I can say about the smell, is that I have never noticed a strong smell of anything coming from vapes/e-cigs or whatever, and that the weaker odours are nowhere near as putrid and nauseous as tobacco.

In my experience the clouds coming from vapours can be quite smelly, but always nice sweet smells which IMO gives a false sense of security.

Cyanide smells of almonds and another poison smells of pear drops, so smells can be deceptive.

 

[dk1]

It doesnt.

Smoking is the burning of tobacco or tobacco like substances for the purpose of inhaling.

Vaping doesnt burn tobacco. It is not covered under the same legislation. Company policy might say no, but legally it doesnt fall foul.

Makes me laugh a bit all these hyper sensitive people who claim a bit of tab smoke sets them off. Yet they are happy to sit on a train that emits massive amounts of diesel particles into the air and cabins.

I dont smoke. But I wouldnt go dobbing people in for having a sly smoke whilst driving - anything that keeps a driver happy and alert is good enough for me.

It does in company policy. I didn't mention it in the legal sense when answering the question.

 

[Butts]

Ah! The curse of great exaggeration and over generalisation. I take it you are both a smoker and a journalist. FTR, I have never (actively) smoked any substance (illegal or otherwise) in my life.

Lordy, Lordy, - no wonder you didn't know what a Rockape or Bootneck are - have you lived at all?

Can you remember a world where people could smoke just about everywhere ? - It was not that long ago !!

As far as I am concerned if a Driver want's a sly tab in the cab - good luck to him. Just come armed with a can of air freshener and no one will be any the wiser.

 

[D365]

Can you remember a world where people could smoke just about everywhere ? - It was not that long ago !!

I don't, and I'm all the happier for it.

 

[Butts]

I don't, and I'm all the happier for it.

Flipping heck - how old are you 10 or something ?

 

[richw]

Seem to recall some wag putting a no smoking sign up in the cab of a steam locomotive when this came into force.?

By law if the steam loco is classed as a workplace it requires a sticker.
Our company vans have to be defected if there’s no sticker and policy requires one to be applied before the van is used.

 

[furnessvale]

Can you remember a world where people could smoke just about everywhere ? - It was not that long ago !!

I remember walking in a pub in Hyde, Cheshire where the smoke clag was so thick I had to crouch down below it to find my way through. My eyes were streaming and I quickly left.

Ah! The good old days!

 

[D365]

Flipping heck - how old are you 10 or something ?

To be fair, I barely recall what double digit temperature feels like at this point.

(definitely not old enough to have learned Fahrenheit...)

 

[BucksBones]

What a weird thread this has developed into.

To summarise:

1. Smoking in the workplace is illegal, even though it didn’t used to be.

2. The cab is a workplace therefore drivers shouldn’t smoke in the cab.

3. Clearly, though, some still do every now and again.

4. If they got caught, presumably they’d be disciplined.

5. The lingering smell is probably unpleasant to the next person in the cab, but.......

6. There’s not necessarily any reason to suppose that those drivers who do occasionally smoke in the cab would go round beating people up in their spare time.

7. It’s cold.

Anything I missed..?!

 

[Butts]

By law if the steam loco is classed as a workplace it requires a sticker.
Our company vans have to be defected if there’s no sticker and policy requires one to be applied before the van is used.

All our Company Vans should be "defected" then. As all the Drivers smoke the stickers are to be found in the overflowing ashtrays

 

[Dentonian]

It does in company policy. I didn't mention it in the legal sense when answering the question.

Lordy, Lordy, - no wonder you didn't know what a Rockape or Bootneck are - have you lived at all?

Can you remember a world where people could smoke just about everywhere ? - It was not that long ago !!

As far as I am concerned if a Driver want's a sly tab in the cab - good luck to him. Just come armed with a can of air freshener and no one will be any the wiser.

I suppose I've allowed myself to drift off he original context of individuals smoking in a cab, without someone sat next to them, and as others have raised, open windows, air fresheners etc can negate the smell. My experience/anger is based on having to inhale nicotene at least four times a week going to work for about 4 years, after Stagecoach converted our service from double-decker to single-decker. Also, I'm not sure if it is anything to do with booze cruises etc - but remember I'm talking teenagers in Denton, not weekenders from Dover, but the smell of cigarettes seemed to get FAR worse from the mid nineties onwards.

 

[Bromley boy]

Try convincing my lungs and nasal passages, it isn't Assault. Yes, it might sound melodramatic, but I judge on the spirit of the Law, not the letter. With all the widespread knowledge of the damage caused by smoking to people's health, anyone that smokes close to a stranger clearly has no regard for that person, so in my mind is quite likely to commit premeditated violence in other circumstances. Its noticable that there used to be a pattern with unprovoked attacks (including murder) late at night, that the media would report that the attacker approached the victim and asked for "a light".

This is a rather bizarre posting.

I can understand you not liking smoking, but to equate it with assault and suggest that if someone smokes near you this indicates they may commit “premeditated violence”?! Huh?

That’s just ranting and makes you sound a more than a little paranoid.

What “pattern of unprovoked attacks (including murder)” are you talking about?

Just to clarify recordable and non recordable concerns the recording of the offend*er*, not he offence. ie. It isn't used to suggest that "minor" offences don't actually exist.

I never said non recordable offences don’t exist, just that these are minor offences which wouldn’t be considered crimes by most people.

 

[Dentonian]

This is a rather bizarre posting.

What “pattern of unprovoked attacks (including murder)” are you talking about?



I never said non recordable offences don’t exist, just that these are minor offences which wouldn’t be considered crimes by most people.

The "pattern" comes from (mainly local) newspaper reports over the years, though its not clear whether the request for "a light" was just to get the victims attention, or whether the assaults occured because the victim wouldn't (or of course, couldn't) supply the assailant with a match or lighter.

I didn't say *you* denied the existance of certain minor crimes, I was wondering if the Police or Home Office are trying to deny they exist. Surely, the point is that a crime is a crime. What is the point in wasting tax-payers money on outlawing something and then say it isn't a crime? If its not a crime, remove it from the statute and tell the public it is no longer a crime.

 

[driver_m]

I reckon it's about time this thread was stubbed out. I think everyone knows you shouldn't, most don't anymore, and if you smell vaping smoke, it's basically taking in other peoples breath. Ewww.

 

[axlecounter]

As a non-smoker, I used in the past to carry with me a light so that if asked I could light someone else’s fag. Made someone happy, helped my karma and gave me an occasion to chat! Does that make me accomplice to murder?

 

[driver_m]

As a non-smoker, I used in the past to carry with me a light so that if asked I could light someone else’s fag. Made someone happy, helped my karma and gave me an occasion to chat! Does that make me accomplice to murder?

No, it just makes me imagine you are about as smooth as Swiss Tony

 

[Kneedown]

Defiantly a giveaway when both windows are down in DVT &/or Loco. No other reason for it with A/C.

Open windows ARE the aircon on EMT!

 

[FenMan]

I doubt Roy Castle's widow would agree with your comment.

So do you KNOW what caused Roy Castle's death. Please get in touch with the Coroner if you do. Anything else is conjecture - lung cancer existed before the smoking of tobacco and will continue to occur long after humans quit the tobacco habit entirely.

Yes, there are probabilities, but that doesn't make them certainties.

 

[PaxmanValenta]

In my experience the clouds coming from vapours can be quite smelly, but always nice sweet smells which IMO gives a false sense of security.

Cyanide smells of almonds and another poison smells of pear drops, so smells can be deceptive.

Very true. Bit like in the 1900s they used Benzene as after shave because it had a Pleasent smell before they knew it causes deadly Leukaemia!

 

[PaxmanValenta]

I wonder if it was on/from someone's clothes?

I only say that because I find it hard to imagine a Tube driver would have a fag in the cab, given LU's strict no smoking rule.

London Underground banned smoking on the tube shortly after the 1987 Kings Cross disaster, so it probably one of the first places to ban its passengers, drivers and staff smoking in the workplace.