Where’s the best place for Class 185s?

[61653 HTAFC]

Well, if the 185s did ever actually see IC service somewhere and the relevant operator considered the “Intercity 185” marketing idea, at least we’ve helped the operator out by stating that it’s not a good one

Since the latest TPE franchise launch, TPE certainly considered themselves to be an "intercity" operator, despite taking on the non-express services in the TP core at the same time.

 

[Philip]

Not only would that be negated by the fact that 810s are replacing the 180s/222s, you’d effectively be taking away IC trains and replacing them with non-IC ones. EMR is getting hammered enough by receiving old, substandard* stock for its Regional and Connect services; so the triple whammy of doing the same thing for Intercity services would be like rubbing salt in the wound… like going back to the early 2000s when 170s ran mainline services.

Mind you, don’t give the DfT any ideas… I could imagine them assigning the 810s to elsewhere and pressing ahead with the “Intercity 185” idea!

*once fully refurbished, I think the 170s and 360s will be half decent trains; but IMO they’re substandard considering that they’re old & cascaded instead of brand new and still nothing has been done to improve the interiors.

The class 185 is an intercity train and their use on Manchester to Scotland services is testament to that; there are more seats on a 3-car 185 than on a 4 car Voyager.

They are too short when running in single formation, but that doesn't happen often much nowadays anyway. When doubled up to make 6 coaches, they'd hold their own for all sorts of diesel intercity routes such as Manchester to Southampton and the EMR route in this instance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The class 185 is an intercity train and their use on Manchester to Scotland services is testament to that; there are more seats on a 3-car 185 than on a 4 car Voyager.

I'd call it a regional express train, albeit a very good one, more because of its sub-125mph top speed and length than door positions, though those also contribute. It could be used on all sorts of stuff in double formation, but it isn't really ideal for them. Single ones for Manchester to Scotland were an utter joke with nowhere near enough capacity.

It might have more seats (and in a better layout) than a 4-car Voyager, but all that highlights is that a 4-car Voyager is a very, very poorly designed train with huge amounts of wasted space.

The EMR route, if you mean Liv-Notts, is not a classic InterCity route, it's a string of regional expresses attached together for operational and passenger convenience. Yes, they'd be ideal for it, but that's because it is a regional express!

 

[Clansman]

The class 185 is an intercity train and their use on Manchester to Scotland services is testament to that; there are more seats on a 3-car 185 than on a 4 car Voyager.

The same logic could also be applied to 170s when some were kitted up with dedicated first class and buffet counters between London, East Anglia, and Hull. Or 158s running between Manchester and London in the FNW days or Scotland to Manchester with XC.

Doesn't necessarily mean they're intercity or more up to the job than 170s or 158s (in the examples of XC and EMR being highlighted).

I'm not sure what gives the illusion that 185s are any more intercity than what folk want them to replace, be it 170s or 158s.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I'd call it a regional express train, albeit a very good one, more because of its sub-125mph top speed and length than door positions, though those also contribute. It could be used on all sorts of stuff in double formation, but it isn't really ideal for them. Single ones for Manchester to Scotland were an utter joke with nowhere near enough capacity.

It might have more seats (and in a better layout) than a 4-car Voyager, but all that highlights is that a 4-car Voyager is a very, very poorly designed train with huge amounts of wasted space.

The EMR route, if you mean Liv-Notts, is not a classic InterCity route, it's a string of regional expresses attached together for operational and passenger convenience. Yes, they'd be ideal for it, but that's because it is a regional express!

I'd have to disagree on more seats than a Voyager on the 3-car 185's. The 3-coach trains have under 200 seats and a 4-coach Voyager has 200 seats.