Where are the London fare zones measured from?

[778]

Is there a centre point in London that is used to set the fare zones?

I think Lambeth North is the closest station to the actual centre of Greater London but I don't think it would be there as that seems to be too far south to be the centre of zone 1. Charing Cross is sometimes used to measure distances from London but that seems too far south as well.

Maybe Leicester Square or Piccadilly Circus?

 

[bcarmicle]

There isn’t one.

 

[AlterEgo]

The zones are entirely arbitrary and not based on distance.

 

[SWT_USER]

Entirely arbitrary, resulting in winners (Epping, the far reaches of the MET line, Caterham) and losers (lots of NW Surrey).

 

[Snow1964]

Originally back in Capitalcard days (about 40 years ago), were 2 central zones, a City one and a West End one, with overlap between them.

The centres were roughly near New Change (eastern end of St Paul's Cathedral) and Buckingham Palace. But the boundaries are very uneven, not concentric rings, and in recent years have been moved in places.

From memory some of the richer suburbs (eg Kingston, Surbiton) are zone 6 and nearer centre than some parts of zone 4. It is not based on distance

 

[Mcr Warrior]

There isn’t one.

Undoubtedly the correct answer, but there must be somewhere within Central London that is the furthest distance, in any direction, from the Zone 1/2 boundary. I'd probably go Leicester Square also, but it's difficult to tell from a schematic map.

 

[bcarmicle]

Undoubtedly the correct answer, but there must be somewhere within Central London that is the furthest distance, in any direction, from the Zone 1/2 boundary. I'd probably go Leicester Square also, but it's difficult to tell from a schematic map.

You’d have to define the Z1/2 boundary. I’m sure it’s possible, but given in practice it’s determined on a station basis, it’s a bit arbitrary.

 

[Snow1964]

This zone map is fairly accurate,
can see how boundaries zig zag rather than form even rings

https://twitter.com/undertheraedar/status/1382411676109135876

 

[CarrotPie]

Entirely arbitrary, resulting in winners (Epping)

The reason the eastern reaches of the Central line are where they are in the zonal system is because their position is heavily subsided by the local council to TfL.

Misremembered that: they were moved, but not because of subsidy.

 

[778]

The reason the eastern reaches of the Central line are where they are in the zonal system is because their position is heavily subsided by the local council to TfL.

Also the london/essex boundary is around where the Eastern reaches of the central line is.

 

[Haywain]

Also the london/essex boundary is around where the Eastern reaches of the circle is.

The circle as in the Circle line? Does that mean Essex has moved west dramatically?

 

[Edvid]

Also the london/essex boundary is around where the Eastern reaches of the circle is.

Sort of. Some of it aligns with the M25 - I presume that's what you mean by "circle" - but another part goes deep within (the Hainault / Grange Hill Woodford area is less than 11 miles from the geographical centre), and another part (the bit around North Ockendon, outside the M25) is up to 20 miles from the centre.

The Epping branch of the Central line lies entirely within Essex.

The reason the eastern reaches of the Central line are where they are in the zonal system is because their position is heavily subsided by the local council to TfL.

No such subsidy exists, according to TfL.

 

[JonathanH]

Some of it aligns with the M25 - I presume that's what you mean by "circle" - but another part goes deep within (the Hainault / Grange Hill area is less than 11 miles from the geographical centre), and another part (the bit around North Ockendon, outside the M25) is up to 20 miles from the centre.

The route of the M25 is in no way intended to be a demarcation of the boundary of London. It is just where there was land to build either Ringway 3 or Ringway 4 (or connecting roads) as appropriate.

The London Zones are purely down to what was agreed when they were established, noting that Zone 3 became Zone 3A / Zone 3B / Zone 3C, then Zones 3 to 5, then Zone 5 was split for Zone 5 and Zone 6 - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/london-bus-fare-zones.199766/#post-4421296

 

[30907]

The Epping branch of the Central line lies entirely within Essex.

Only if you define it as branching from the Woodford-Hainault line, which most people (not to mention TfL?) think of as a shuttle service not the main line

 

[bicbasher]

Entirely arbitrary, resulting in winners (Epping, the far reaches of the MET line, Caterham) and losers (lots of NW Surrey).

The Tattenham Corner branch and Epsom Downs branch stations within Surrey are also in Zone 6.

 

[JonathanH]

The Tattenham Corner branch and Epsom Downs branch stations within Surrey are also in Zone 6.

As discussed here - commercial decision by Southern in 2006 - https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...oyster-or-other-pte-area.256116/#post-6454229

 

[Somewhere]

You’d have to define the Z1/2 boundary. I’m sure it’s possible, but given in practice it’s determined on a station basis, it’s a bit arbitrary.

You used to have a physical boundary back when buses were included in the zones, but since zones were removed from London Buses with the introduction of the Oystercard, it is a station by station basis.

If I remember correctly, London was divided up into Zones 1 and 2 for rail and bus, and 3 for buses, with Zone 3 further divided into 3a, 3b and 3c for rail. These were referred to as Central, Inner and Outer zones on buses.
Later, Zone 2 was split into Zones 2 and 3, with Zone 3b becoming Zone 4, and Zone 3c becoming Zone 5. Zone 5 was then later split into Zones 5 and 6.

 

[bicbasher]

I remember what is now Zone 3 being part of the Outer zone for buses as East Dulwich was split between Inner and Outer. North of Goose Green including East Dulwich Station was in Inner and the retail area in Outer. Later it was split between 2 and 3.

The Goose Green bus stops were 2/3 when bus stops used to show zones on the side of the totem.

It was cheaper to spend nearly an hour on a bus to Croydon than it was to go across to Peckham and Camberwell as I was in Zone 3.

 

[talldave]

My local station is in two zones!

 

[fairysdad]

This zone map is fairly accurate,
can see how boundaries zig zag rather than form even rings

https://twitter.com/undertheraedar/status/1382411676109135876

Interesting map. Seems that Hammersmith & Fulham is the only borough that is solely within one zone (Z2) - although there might be a bit of Z3 where it meets Ealing and Brent boroughs (difficult to see if there's any yellow there or whether it's just the image compression)

 

[Haywain]

Interesting map. Seems that Hammersmith & Fulham is the only borough that is solely within one zone (Z2) - although there might be a bit of Z3 where it meets Ealing and Brent boroughs (difficult to see if there's any yellow there or whether it's just the image compression)

City of London all in zone 1?

 

[Somewhere]

City of London all in zone 1?

Not a borough

 

[PeterC]

Interesting map. Seems that Hammersmith & Fulham is the only borough that is solely within one zone (Z2) - although there might be a bit of Z3 where it meets Ealing and Brent boroughs (difficult to see if there's any yellow there or whether it's just the image compression)

It seems to be basing the zone on the nearest station. IIRC none of the stations in Havering are in zone 6 but zone 5 seems to spread just over the borough boundary. Similarly Rush Green is shown as zone 6 presumably because its main railhead is Romford