Where could a UK-wide High-speed network go?

[MidlandMainlie]

It would be easier to just build the Eastern leg of HS2. The population a Welwyn avoider would be looking to serve lives in the East Midlands, South Yorkshire, West Yorkshire and the North East.

If HS2 is built to East Midlands Parkway then you are looking at a lot of cost for building the rest of the Eastern leg of HS2 for very little benefit. While Leeds and the North East lose out from the cancellation of the Eastern leg of HS2 the revised proposals to EMP provide a much better service for Nottingham and Derby than the proposed HS2 hub at Toton (even though it would have been much more convenient for me personally than having to travel into Nottingham). I can see the benefits from the revised proposals, especially the improved Nottingham- Birmingham journey times.

 

[HSTEd]

If you want to serve the North East given where we are now, the best option is likely extend from Marsden, not Nottingham.

 

[Purple Orange]

If you want to serve the North East given where we are now, the best option is likely extend from Marsden, not Nottingham.

But there is a question about whether London-Leeds via Manchester or indeed London-Newcastle via Leeds & Manchester is the most optimal scenario. The London-Manchester market is the biggest intercity market in the country and is expected to fill three 400m trains per hour, with the option of a fourth path. Meanwhile, Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds and Birmingham-Manchester-Leeds fits well. Fitting in the London-Leeds & Newcastle market would require a big re-think.

 

[route101]

Leeds - Birmingham - Bristol

Southampton - Oxford - HS2

 

[HSTEd]

But there is a question about whether London-Leeds via Manchester or indeed London-Newcastle via Leeds & Manchester is the most optimal scenario. The London-Manchester market is the biggest intercity market in the country and is expected to fill three 400m trains per hour, with the option of a fourth path. Meanwhile, Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds and Birmingham-Manchester-Leeds fits well. Fitting in the London-Leeds & Newcastle market would require a big re-think.

I think 6 or 8 trains from London to Leeds/York via Manchester each hour would likely prove sufficient and would still allow plenty of capacity through the Manchester Airport approach tunnels for trains from Birmingham and Liverpool.

I've run the numbers on the limitations of the ventilation shafts in the Manchester Airport-Piccadilly tunnel and capacities above 14tph are likely possible.
And if it is really necessary, later construction of an additional ventilation shaft is likely to be far cheaper than the extra distance of high speed track from Nottingham to reach Leeds.

 

[Purple Orange]

I think 6 or 8 trains from London to Leeds/York via Manchester each hour would likely prove sufficient and would still allow plenty of capacity through the Manchester Airport approach tunnels for trains from Birmingham and Liverpool.

I've run the numbers on the limitations of the ventilation shafts in the Manchester Airport-Piccadilly tunnel and capacities above 14tph are likely possible.
And if it is really necessary, later construction of an additional ventilation shaft is likely to be far cheaper than the extra distance of high speed track from Nottingham to reach Leeds.

I think in order to provide a London-Manchester-Leeds service, the Liverpool-Leeds services would need to be binned off from NPR/HS2 and continue as 2 tph via Victoria.

Given infrastructure limitations (no 400m platforms are being constructed in Yorkshire) and the HS2 demand firecast for Manchester & Leeds, it would need to become an 8 tph reversing situation:

• 6x400m Euston, Piccadilly, Leeds (portion split at Piccadilly
• 2x400m Curzon Street, Piccadilly, Leeds, onwards (portion split at Piccadilly)
• 2x200m Liverpool, Victoria, Leeds, onwards