Where else in the UK could tramways/light rail be installed?

[quailking14]

I know that tramways exist in Birmingham, Sheffield, Blackpool, Manchester, London (Croydon), Nottingham and Edinburgh. I also know of proposals in Leeds, Bristol and Coventry, along with Cardiff metro under construction. However, we lag behind most of the EU on trams, where some countries like Germany have a much higher percentage of cities with trams/light rail.

Is there anywhere else in the UK where you feel tramways/light rail hypothetically could be built?

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Leeds, Bristol and Birmingham should have Undergrounds more so than trams. Especially Birmingham.

Southampton and Portsmouth could do with some kind of light rail. Maybe Bournemouth too.

Liverpool should have one. Or at least break the Merseyrail loop and extend the line eastwards.

Stoke on Trent, Preston and surroundings, Cambridge (for housing expansion) and maybe Teeside could do with trams

 

[The exile]

Leeds, Bristol and Birmingham should have Undergrounds more so than trams.

A Quick Look at the topography of Bristol would show how quickly costs would mount - even compared with standard underground costs.

 

[stuu]

I have often thought that trams would work well in Brighton - a route from the universities into the centre and then west into Hove and beyond - lots of dense housing, and mostly unusually wide streets

 

[D6130]

Fareham-Gosport-Portsmouth. Oh, wait....haven't we been there before?

 

[The exile]

IIRC, the threshold at which the City of Brussels considered it worth investigating their most recent conversions of bus to tram was 10 busy buses per hour along the corridor concerned.

 

[JonasB]

In my opinion Belfast really should replace the Glider with trams. And London should expand the tram network.

 

[d9009alycidon]

There have been numerous plans for a Glasgow area metro system similar to the Manchester idea with existing heavy rail routes being converted to light rail with on street city centre running, and a new link from the city to the airport. Latest proposals are outlined here https://www.newcivilengineer.com/la...lyde Metro proposals will,take up to 30 years.

 

[MPW]

I agree with Bournemouth. The A338 towards Poole even has an existing freight line next to it for part of the way.

The main station is just far enough from beach to put people off using rail and walking from station. Bath road goes right past the peer on a viaduct and converting to public transit would do much to reduce private vehicle traffic in the centre.

Poole ferry Terminal also has existing tracks and temptingly close (in straight line at least) to Poole station. That could be a loop (if practical) connecting to network at Hamworthy. To be fair, that bit is probably looking for a justification than having a clear business case. But in my liberal mind anything that takes people out of cars is a good thing (especially in town centres).

Separate idea I've had is medway and Maidstone. So many dual carriageways! Underutilised railway connecting the two areas. So much potential for regeneration. Connections to high speed (and other fast) trains to London.

 

[uglymonkey]

How about extending the Seaton Tramway up to the disused Seaton Junction main line station, slew the line over and have Waterloo/Exeter trains stop each way. Put a portacabin on the platform as a waiting room?

 

[Snow1964]

There are few people in Bath that keep proposing trams, principally route from University via centre to Royal United Hospital and out to park and rides which see frequent bus services.

The former standard gauge network closed early 1939

 

[Monarch010]

Wouldn't more dedicated bus lanes and more electric buses be a cheaper and more flexible option?

 

[HSTEd]

Wouldn't more dedicated bus lanes and more electric buses be a cheaper and more flexible option?

It might be cheaper in capital terms but it will produce a vastly inferior result in terms of usable transport, and it will lock in enormous operating costs in the form of staff forever.

Given the effective prohibition on articulated (bendy) buses in the UK, a bus simply can't carry enough people or load/unload them fast enough to be competitive. Even if it has continuous bus lanes, which bus lane schemes almost never do.

 

[Falcon1200]

There have been numerous plans for a Glasgow area metro system similar to the Manchester idea with existing heavy rail routes being converted to light rail with on street city centre running, and a new link from the city to the airport.

Glasgow once had a magnificent tram network of course, and could do with one again, but IMHO routes should serve and link areas not currently accessible by rail, rather than convert existing lines, many of which would have to remain suitable for heavy rail anyway (eg the Cathcart Circle).

 

[Sussex Ben]

I have often thought that trams would work well in Brighton - a route from the universities into the centre and then west into Hove and beyond - lots of dense housing, and mostly unusually wide streets

This would give the benefit of providing more capacity for football traffic without resignalling the line through Falmer too.

Brighton also has a lot of bus routes which go from one side of the city to the other, probably due to a lack of a central bus station. A tram route along the seafront from the marina to Hove (or beyond) with a spur up to the station could potentially work too.

 

[stuu]

Given the effective prohibition on articulated (bendy) buses in the UK, a bus simply can't carry enough people or load/unload them fast enough to be competitive. Even if it has continuous bus lanes, which bus lane schemes almost never do.

There's no such thing. As they are operating in Belfast right now and on order for Birmingham. They weren't helped by the lies told by the country's worst liar, but they aren't banned

 

[quailking14]

Glasgow once had a magnificent tram network of course, and could do with one again, but IMHO routes should serve and link areas not currently accessible by rail, rather than convert existing lines, many of which would have to remain suitable for heavy rail anyway (eg the Cathcart Circle).

Well, a Glasgow tram network could use high-floor tram trains like the Cardiff metro which would have the right door height to use normal rail stations. However, this would mean having to build higher platforms for tram stops too.

There is the Glasgow underground too, which expanding it might be considered an alternative to trams. But I do feel that both modes of transportation could coexist in an integrated network.

Wouldn't more dedicated bus lanes and more electric buses be a cheaper and more flexible option?

Electric buses are an option, but trams can be more reliable/frequent than buses as they can be placed onto dedicated track lanes without traffic. Also, trams have higher capacity than buses. Also, cities with trams can have 35% of journeys done by tram, so delivers proportionately larger profits so can subsidies unprofitable bus routes, so can increase bus driver pay. But yes, electric buses can get to areas outside the tram's radius so could cooperate with the tram on shared timetables.

 

[HST43257]

I have often thought that trams would work well in Brighton - a route from the universities into the centre and then west into Hove and beyond - lots of dense housing, and mostly unusually wide streets

Perhaps send it towards Portslade and clear up the West Coastway a bit?

 

[TrainBoy98]

Brighton does strike me as ideal for trams (especially considering they had them many years ago) - plenty of people, lots of high-frequency bus routes (along key corridors) and a more green/future thinking city than most. However, the issue would be the lack of dedicated routes (ie, trams would be caught up in much of the traffic the buses are) and space for the infrastructure. Thinking about Portslade for example, the 49 bus does use some narrow streets, plus turns that wouldn't work for a tram.

Crayon-time:

You'd likely want a route from say Portslade though the city centre down to the marina, Seven Dials-Station-Centre-Marina, and something up towards Lewes Road/Universities, then feeder buses to connect the ends of Routes 1/5/49 to the main tramlines - issue being, would people want to change?

 

[DanNCL]

Surprised there hasn’t been any mention of Newcastle yet. A tram along the West Road corridor would be very popular and a lot cheaper than an underground Metro extension from St James would be.

 

[Umberleigh]

It might be cheaper in capital terms but it will produce a vastly inferior result in terms of usable transport, and it will lock in enormous operating costs in the form of staff forever.

Given the effective prohibition on articulated (bendy) buses in the UK, a bus simply can't carry enough people or load/unload them fast enough to be competitive. Even if it has continuous bus lanes, which bus lane schemes almost never do.

I was a student at The University of Bath and would have loved trams. Back in 2016 we had the dreadful bendy buses and double-deckers that took took forever to load and unload. It is a very steep hill up to the Uni and you essentially have a captive market. I don't recall the Claverton road being all that busy in terms of other traffic so tram lines should work. Also Claverton Down is owned by the National Trust and provides for a fantastic walk down into Bath so you would generate tourist traffic up the hill at least.

 

[Umberleigh]

I was a student at The University of Bath and would have loved trams. Back in 2016 we had the dreadful bendy buses and double-deckers that took took forever to load and unload. It is a very steep hill up to the Uni and you essentially have a captive market. I don't recall the Claverton road being all that busy in terms of other traffic so tram lines should work. Also Claverton Down is owned by the National Trust and provides for a fantastic walk down into Bath so you would generate tourist traffic up the hill at least.

Oh, just to add to the above that due to the architecture and history of Bath bus lanes are not possible on the route from Bath station up to the Uni.

 

[Backroom_boy]

I think all the obvious places based on population have been mentioned apart from Leicester

 

[The exile]

There's no such thing. As they are operating in Belfast right now and on order for Birmingham. They weren't helped by the lies told by the country's worst liar, but they aren't banned

Their sphere of operation is however limited by most cities’ road layouts.

Oh, just to add to the above that due to the architecture and history of Bath bus lanes are not possible on the route from Bath station up to the Uni.

Were the road wide enough, bus lanes could be installed. However, bus lanes would rarely be needed on the bits of Bathwick Hill (that’s the route up to the university) that are wide enough to take them. That’s not a problem unique to Bath!

 

[Haywain]

The A338 towards Poole even has an existing freight line next to it for part of the way.

It's all of about 600 metres, and that freight line is part of the train maintenance depot.

Poole ferry Terminal also has existing tracks

The disused Hamworthy good line.

temptingly close (in straight line at least) to Poole station. That could be a loop (if practical) connecting to network at Hamworthy.

So temptingly straight it is almost certainly quicker to walk from the ferry terminal to Poole station. And if we are talking about trams or light rail, joining them to the national network at Hamworthy would be far from simple.

If there was a case for trams in the Bournemouth area, then for a route you would have to look at where the m1/m2 buses go, and perhaps out along the A347 corridor.

 

[The exile]

However, we lag behind most of the EU on trams,

Ironically at least partially because we were in the vanguard of abolishing what was then seen as an obsolete form of transport either side of the Second World War. That mentality lasted for many years - with entire West German systems still being closed in the 1980s.

 

[Cross City]

Birmingham should have Undergrounds more so than trams. Especially Birmingham.

Agreed. Trams down super busy areas like Kings Heath, Moseley, Handsworth etc is unfeasible. The buses in these areas are already packed too. The 50 down Kings Heath High Street used to be the most frequent bus in Europe (no idea if that's still true) and is still wedged out every few minutes.

A Great Barr, Perry Barr, Aston, Centre, Balsall Heath, Moseley, Kings Heath, Maypole underground line would be revolutionary IMO.

As would a Dudley, Oldbury, Smethwick, JQ, Centre, Small Heath, Yardley, Sheldon, Airport/Solihull line.

 

[stuu]

Their sphere of operation is however limited by most cities’ road layouts.

Which is nonsense as they work in places like Florence which are hardly Texas

 

[D6130]

Which is nonsense as they work in places like Florence which are hardly Texas

Yes, but they don't thread their way through the narrow medieval streets of central Florence. They fan out from the main (Santa Maria Novella) railway station and run along the wide and fairly straight peripheral boulevards.

 

[Asmo]

Not forgetting all those cities that had a tram system in the late 19th to early 20th centuries. Hull had an extensive system lasting until 1945, being supplanted by the much loved trolley bus for a couple of decades before they met their demise.