Which spilt up train service would you most like to see reinstated?

[fgwrich]

XC routes via the West Coast like in Virgin days.

Reading - Brighton via Basingstoke, Eastleigh, Fareham and Havant
Southampton-Swindon (I know there are only two trains a day in each direction through Melksham at stupid hours but ideally there'd be a proper service of 6-7 trains each way per day)
Waterloo-Exeter services west of Exeter (from 10 December SWT services to Paignton & Plymouth will terminate at Exeter)
XC services from Poole to Glasgow, Liverpool, York, Newcastle and Edinburgh. Brighton and Portsmouth should also be reinstated on the XC map

Exactly...How can Cross Country use the X logo if they technically dont actually go in a X...more of a deluded backward _Z

But yes, id like to see the Reading to Brighton service back...Aswell as the Sotton to Swindon services...

Portsmouth - Manchester
Portsmouth - Liverpool
Portsmouth - Blackpool
Portsmouth - Leeds/York.

Brighton - Glasgow
Brighton - Manchester.

Weymouth - Manchester?

Still we all know that none of the above will ever get reinstated because we've got a bunch of incompetent, inept & generally pig ignorant assholes running DfT.

100%

 

[Bittern]

Does anyone know why Virgin cut the Edinburgh Waverly to London Euaton service? Wouldn't Edinburgh - London via the WCML be quicker than that via the ECML?

 

[devon_metro]

Probably because the 390s are better used in the Midlands rather than in Scotland where there is already an operator from Edinburgh - London via the East coast on far superior trains.

Plus, Virgin operate a 2 hourly service from Edinburgh - Birmingham.

 

[dk1]

Does anyone know why Virgin cut the Edinburgh Waverly to London Euaton service? Wouldn't Edinburgh - London via the WCML be quicker than that via the ECML?

Highly unlikely to be quicker as would prob need to serve places like Milton Keynes/Rugby which are not served by Brum trains & which would be the only reason for it to run as it did last time. On frequency it cant compete with East Coast. Remember one of their trains does the Kings Cross run in around 4h10 anyway.

Virgin are better off focusing on their core market which has always been Glasgow. Remember the 4 new Pendo's will allow the plugging of the current off putting 2hr gaps in service. Reports are circulating of large gains in passengers on the WCML since VHF which stands well for the future if this is achievable whilst the country has well & truly been in the doldrums.

 

[ashworth]

Most of these routes were cut for very good reasons, and in a lot of cases were just a lot of local journeys tagged together (that still exist for the local journeys). Manchester Airport to Skeg via Crewe, for example...

Whilst I agree that such journeys as Manchester Airport to Skegness is perhaps taking the linking of local services a bit too far, cutting services like this into too many short sections is also very inconvenient for many passengers.
This route should not have been split at Derby as there is a need for a through Nottingham to Crewe service. It is now a very inconvenient and lengthy journey from Nottingham to destinations like Chester, North Wales, Preston and other stations up the WCML. All this has done is either to discourage people from travelling or to force even more passengers to travel via Manchester on the already overcrowded EMT Norwich-Liverpool service. It also does not help the overcrowding on the through platforms at Manchester Picadilly.

Perhaps this also shows the need for a few through services a day to be restored from Nottingham to Preston. Whether these need to run through from East Anglia to Blackpool or up the WCML to Glasgow is another subject for discussion. It always amazed me that as soon as the Windsor Link was built around Manchester these very services that should have benefitted from that link were immediatley withdrawn!

 

[43106]

Didn't there used to be two through trains to Inverness - one via the ECML and one via the WCML? The one via the West Midlands was called the Clansman IIRC. I'll have to dig out my 1987-1988 timetable to check!

Does anyone know why Virgin cut the Edinburgh Waverley to London Euston service? Wouldn't Edinburgh - London via the WCML be quicker than that via the ECML?

Answering 2 queries at once...
1) Yes, Greenback, the Euston - Inverness service WAS called "The Clansman". As I said earlier, it ran Euston - Birmingham - Crewe - Preston - Carlisle - Motherwell - Coatbridge - Cumbernauld - Stirling - Perth - Inverness. Northound, all stops from Euston - Wolverhampton were picking up only, whereas it was a free-for-all southbound. It was generally electric from Euston - Motherwell, where the electric was taken off and a Brush 4 (sorry - a 47!) was stuck on in it's place. The Clansman was then taken off the Motherwell - Stirling line and sent via Edinburgh, where the electric/diesel swop-over was done. The Inverness services was then SWITCHED to the ECML - there was never 2 services that went London - Inverness at the same time. When it was switched to the ECML, it became known as "The Highland Chieftain", but the Euston - Waverley service continued to run. I went on it a couple of times, and it was very empty. Eventually, this service was simply withdrawn.

2) The last 3 sentences of the above paragraph probably answers RPM Elite's point. The Pendo service was (as far as I can work out) a straight-forward extension of a Euston - Carlisle run. I wouldn't really compare it to the remnant of "The Clansman" as it didn't go through Birmingham. Anyway, at the time the Edinburgh Pendo was running then got pulled, Virgin had the rights to the XC services down the WCML, so they probably pulled it as it was duplicating VXC services, and the ONLY different places the Pendo service was serving was (Watford-Lichfield) -Edinburgh, so the simple answer is probably economic. I was surprised that VWC re-introduced the Euston - Edinburgh service - it was poorly used in the 1990's and I reckon it was poorly patronised in the 2000's. The Pendo took about 5 hours - the ECML was typically 4 1/2 hours, though the Pendo would be quicker than it was now.

 

[Greenback]

I dug out my old copy of the Oct 1987 to May 1988 BR timetable, and table 231 shows both the Clansman and The Highland Chieftan. The former departed Euston at 0855 M-F and 0840 SO, arriving Inverness 1942 via Birmingham New St and Edinburgh. The HC left King's Cross and arrived Inverness at 2030 via the East Coast.

The Clansman left Inverness at 1030 for Euston, arriving at 2131. The HC left at 0730 SO or 0750 M-F for King's Cross, arriving at 1618.

 

[tbtc]

This route should not have been split at Derby as there is a need for a through Nottingham to Crewe service. It is now a very inconvenient and lengthy journey from Nottingham to destinations like Chester, North Wales, Preston and other stations up the WCML

I agree about the route being Nottingham - Crewe, but Crewe has lost most of it's North Wales links now, with them running Cardiff/ Birmingham - Shrewsbury - Chester - Holyhead instead (avoiding Crewe). You could argue for the (Nottingham) Derby - Stoke - Crewe service to be extended to Chester (replacing the hourly ATW "shuttle" from Crewe to Chester).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Exactly...How can Cross Country use the X logo if they technically dont actually go in a X...more of a deluded backward _Z

???

Half hourly from Manchester/ Newcastle to Bristol/ Reading looks like an "X" to me, with additional journeys on the Derby to Cheltenham stretch.
Okay, the route to Leicester/ Stanstead spoils the effect slightly, but the franchise still links the points of the compass, from Aberdeen to Penzance...

 

[91101]

As as already been highlighted the complete withdrawl of InterCity trains from the South East coast to destinations north. Whilst most key cities, Southampton, Portsmouth, Brighton and places in Kent now have faster and more frequent links to London owing to the rise in commuting to London from these locations, I do believe that a few key departures into the CrossCountry network would be easy to achieve whist allowing for convience.

The practise of spliting and joining 22X stock is not much more troublesome than pushing a button and slamming them together, no requirement for masses of additional drivers or shunters. Reading is a traincrew depot for XC, so the costs and performance risk of a double Voyager coming down from Birmingham and splitting, the rear 4 off to Bournemouth, and the front four down to Brighton. I am disgusted by the lack of CrossCountry services now to and from Gatwick Airport!

 

[djw1981]

I guess the issue is that with track reaching capacity, fitting in irregular XC trains will eb tricky.

 

[tripleseis]

Reading - Brighton via Basingstoke, Eastleigh, Fareham and Havant

Did it go via that route as well? I always thought XC services to Brighton (from I think Manchester Piccadilly via B'ham and Oxford) only went via the North Downs through Guildford to the Brighton Main Line or in other instances went via the West London Line down via Olympia and Clapham Junction and to the Brighton Main Line that way.

 

[pemma]

I think with any Airport service spilting it up will incovenice some people. If, for example, the Middlesbrough to Manchester Airport service terminated at Manchester Piccadilly then that could mean some people arrive at Manchester Airport, catch the next train to Manchester Piccadilly which takes them to platform 14, which is a long way from something like platform 3 where a North TPE would depart from. I think a transfer between platform 14 and 3 at Piccadilly 20 minutes before/after and Airport transfer will transfer passengers from the train to the coach.

 

[SWT Driver]

Did it go via that route as well? I always thought XC services to Brighton (from I think Manchester Piccadilly via B'ham and Oxford) only went via the North Downs through Guildford to the Brighton Main Line or in other instances went via the West London Line down via Olympia and Clapham Junction and to the Brighton Main Line that way.

I used to work these trains, they were a right pain in the arse, with class 170s (pieces of junk!).

It was an SWT service, it would vary but generally called Hove, Shoreham, Worthing, Barnham, Chichester, Havant, (Cosham), (Portchester), Fareham, (Botley), (Hedge End), Eastleigh, (Shawford), Winchester, (Micheldever), Basingstoke, Reading.

Stations in () were peak hours only.

Then there were the Saturday ones from Paignton/Exeter to Brighton, which were WoE line stations to Sarum, Romsey, Southampton Ctl, Fareham & then Havant, Chichester, Worthing, Shoreham, Hove & Brighton, some also used to go via Portsmouth & Southsea as well.

These were formed of either 2x159 or 159+170 when they were formed like this then they went via Portsmouth, which usually meant that the 170 was nearest the blocks on the tightly curved platform 1 at Brighton.

There used to be 2x XC services a day (SX) between Gatwick & Reading via Guildford to Manchester, but only a single return one, 1x XC between Brighton & Manchester via East Croydon & Kensington, now there's none beyond Guildford & it only gets a solitary daily service, unless the line between Basingstoke & Reading is closed for some reason (engineering) then it gets nearly an hourly service to/from Bournemouth/Southampton with very limited calls, usually running NON STOP Guildford-Southampton in just a tad over an hour, via Havant, Fareham & Netley to rejoin the mainline at St Denys.