Which ticket Offices are still open?

[class303]

Noticed Euston was closed today. I need to get my gold record card added to my oyster you see.

Thanks

 

[ainsworth74]

Find a member of Underground staff and they should be able to do it at the TVMs.

 

[185143]

Noticed Euston was closed today. I need to get my gold record card added to my oyster you see.

Thanks

Closed permanently? Can't really see Euston's TVM's coping with that tbh!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Closed permanently? Can't really see Euston's TVM's coping with that tbh!

The new tourist centre thingy on the main concourse has opened, hasn't it?

 

[class303]

The new tourist centre thingy on the main concourse has opened, hasn't it?

Oh really? just noticed the old ticket office gone now.

 

[bluegoblin7]

Closed permanently? Can't really see Euston's TVM's coping with that tbh!

All LU ticket offices are closing, so yes, permanently.

Not sure of the exact end-state plans for Euston, but I understand further POMs are being installed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Find a member of Underground staff and they should be able to do it at the TVMs.

Staff can't add Gold Record Cards via the POMs... unless I've been really thick and missed the memo.

Farringdon and Liverpool Street both remain open at the present time for Central London stations nearby to Euston.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The new tourist centre thingy on the main concourse has opened, hasn't it?

Yes, the new 'Visitor Centre', as TfL are now calling them, has opened on the main concourse. There's a number of these across the Capital.

Despite being able to sell Oyster cards, do Oyster top-ups, add Oyster discounts, sell paper tickets and provide general travel information, they're completely, 100%, definitely not a ticket office... :roll:

 

[ainsworth74]

Staff can't add Gold Record Cards via the POMs... unless I've been really thick and missed the memo.

Ah, no, it's probably me

I've never been too clear on Gold Cards and the bits and pieces that go with them. Probably because I'm in the North where such things don't exist to confuse everyone!

 

[class303]

Farringdon and Liverpool Street both remain open at the present time for Central London stations nearby to Euston.

cheers. I will mosey on down to Liverpool Street

 

[Bletchleyite]

Staff can't add Gold Record Cards via the POMs... unless I've been really thick and missed the memo.

They can add Railcards, isn't it just another Railcard in effect?

 

[bluegoblin7]

They can add Railcards, isn't it just another Railcard in effect?

That might well be how it's done, but as I say it's not on the list we've been given that says what we can and can't add. Reading through the offer of the Gold Card it's the same as another railcard, so yes, in theory it would be added the same way.

I'm on leave at the moment, but I'll make enquiries when I'm back in to clarify, unless someone else beats me to it!

Just in case I am wrong... sorry for adding confusion.

 

[plcd1]

That might well be how it's done, but as I say it's not on the list we've been given that says what we can and can't add. Reading through the offer of the Gold Card it's the same as another railcard, so yes, in theory it would be added the same way.

I'm on leave at the moment, but I'll make enquiries when I'm back in to clarify, unless someone else beats me to it!

Just in case I am wrong... sorry for adding confusion.

I know you're going to check but my understanding of the brave new world with Annual Seasons is that LU will not retail them at stations any more. You will order on line, you collect the new ticket on your Oyster Card at the nominated station, TfL post you the separate Gold Record Card (!) and then you go to a station and the "reprogrammed" member of staff then adds the discount to the Oyster Card at a POM.

Quite how all that faff and nonsense is better than a 90 second ticket transaction at a ticket window I don't know. I bought an Annual for three years running so know exactly what's involved at a ticket office - it was always a nice smooth process. Thank goodness I don't need to buy them anymore.

 

[philjo]

The Thameslink ticket office at St Pancras added the Gold Card for me last year. Usually a short queue there as the EMT office is next door.

 

[ssray]

Just to clarify, we can add gold record etc, i.e priv(boxes) to your oyster, the only problem is that not all staff have had the training to access that bit of the machines
The problem is that we are being given non samf(ticket office staff) to cover samf duties and they have no access, most of the time after 0700ish we have one
Ray

 

[clagmonster]

The Thameslink ticket office at St Pancras added the Gold Card for me last year. Usually a short queue there as the EMT office is next door.

That is interesting. Despite LT claiming that said office can do it, I have been there on two separate occasions, a year or two apart, and on both occasions been refused a railcard being added to Oyster and told that they have never done it there.

 

[pitdiver]

I have just decided to get a retired Oyster Card. I have a retired PTAC. Where do I get the actual Oyster Card from, I assume the right facility can be added by a member of LUL's staff via the enhanced POMs. I also want to get one for my wife she has a retired partners PTAC. I assume that the process is the same for her's. As a matter of interest I have the authorised forms from LT Staff travel.

 

[bluegoblin7]

I have just decided to get a retired Oyster Card. I have a retired PTAC. Where do I get the actual Oyster Card from, I assume the right facility can be added by a member of LUL's staff via the enhanced POMs. I also want to get one for my wife she has a retired partners PTAC. I assume that the process is the same for her's. As a matter of interest I have the authorised forms from LT Staff travel.

As I have told you a couple of times on another forum, Oyster cards are obtained via any LUL ticket machine (POM), Visitor Centre or Oyster Ticket Stop. After you have the card the PRIV discount is added by a member of staff as you suggest.

 

[pitdiver]

As I have told you a couple of times on another forum, Oyster cards are obtained via any LUL ticket machine (POM), Visitor Centre or Oyster Ticket Stop. After you have the card the PRIV discount is added by a member of staff as you suggest.

Sorry Bluegoblin I'd forgotten all about that post. This what happens when you get old. In which case I will see you hopefully on that day I mentioned.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Post deleted

 

[Skimble19]

The ticket office at Kentish Town will be closing at some point this month leaving any passengers who want to travel on Thameslink trains unable to buy tickets until January when LU decide to bother upgrading their TVMs so you can buy them on there! Couldn't have just kept it open a few months longer could they!

 

[class303]

Liverpool Street office closing on the 19th of October.

 

[simple simon]

The ticket office at Kentish Town will be closing at some point this month leaving any passengers who want to travel on Thameslink trains unable to buy tickets until January when LU decide to bother upgrading their TVMs so you can buy them on there! Couldn't have just kept it open a few months longer could they!

Quite appalling. I hope no one ends up in court (or unable to travel) for not having a ticket.

I have an ongoing complaint which I lodged with TfL over a different ticketing issue that occurred as a direct result of the ticket offices at Gants Hill being closed and my no longer being able to buy a paper ticket two days before travel. I put this and some photos of whats happened at Gants Hill in a thread in the Ticketing section, as it did not occur to me that it could also be placed in the London Underground section.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2331669#post2331669

Simon

 

[MikeWh]

The ticket office at Kentish Town will be closing at some point this month leaving any passengers who want to travel on Thameslink trains unable to buy tickets until January when LU decide to bother upgrading their TVMs so you can buy them on there! Couldn't have just kept it open a few months longer could they!

Don't believe everything you read on internet forums!

I have been to Kentish Town this afternoon and the ticket machines are quite capable of selling National Rail tickets. I was able to select a return to Bedford stations before giving up because the queue was growing behind me and I had no intention of buying.

 

[Skimble19]

Don't believe everything you read on internet forums!

I have been to Kentish Town this afternoon and the ticket machines are quite capable of selling National Rail tickets. I was able to select a return to Bedford stations before giving up because the queue was growing behind me and I had no intention of buying.

I don't. That wasn't from any Internet forum, it was from an internal staff brief.

If that's the case LUL may wish to formally inform GTR who are under the impression that that isn't the vase...

 

[bluegoblin7]

I don't. That wasn't from any Internet forum, it was from an internal staff brief.

If that's the case LUL may wish to formally inform GTR who are under the impression that that isn't the vase...

Technically you're both right; LUL POMs can sell tickets to NR destinations, but not to every NR destination (and this includes TL-served stations) - and those that are available have a limited selection of fares that tend to include a (sometimes unneeded) Underground journey.

The situation is less than ideal, but we (LUL staff) have been assured that improvements are going to be made. In the meantime, the official advice is to buy 'the most appropriate' ticket and use it as part-exchange at the first possible opportunity. Just because the POMs can't sell the full range of fares doesn't mean that the customer should have to pay more.

For clarity, I am specifically talking about paper tickets solely for NR-related journeys. I don't want to get into the Oyster/Contactless/Paper ticket debate again.

 

[bicbasher]

Leicester Square ticket office closes on November 1st.

 

[MikeWh]

Technically you're both right; LUL POMs can sell tickets to NR destinations, but not to every NR destination (and this includes TL-served stations) - and those that are available have a limited selection of fares that tend to include a (sometimes unneeded) Underground journey.

The situation is less than ideal, but we (LUL staff) have been assured that improvements are going to be made. In the meantime, the official advice is to buy 'the most appropriate' ticket and use it as part-exchange at the first possible opportunity. Just because the POMs can't sell the full range of fares doesn't mean that the customer should have to pay more.

Thanks for this explanation. I wish I'd seen it before going to check. I wonder if LTW are aware that customers may be sold an inappropriate/more expensive ticket without realising? Is there an easy way to find out what is and isn't available? Does what is on offer vary depending on the station that the machine is located in?

 

[Dent]

Technically you're both right; LUL POMs can sell tickets to NR destinations, but not to every NR destination (and this includes TL-served stations) - and those that are available have a limited selection of fares that tend to include a (sometimes unneeded) Underground journey.

The situation is less than ideal, but we (LUL staff) have been assured that improvements are going to be made. In the meantime, the official advice is to buy 'the most appropriate' ticket and use it as part-exchange at the first possible opportunity. Just because the POMs can't sell the full range of fares doesn't mean that the customer should have to pay more.

For clarity, I am specifically talking about paper tickets solely for NR-related journeys. I don't want to get into the Oyster/Contactless/Paper ticket debate again.

Can National Rail ticket outlets now refund/exchange LU-issued tickets?

It was a while ago, but I remember having problems with this in the past. Has this changed?

 

[bluegoblin7]

Thanks for this explanation. I wish I'd seen it before going to check. I wonder if LTW are aware that customers may be sold an inappropriate/more expensive ticket without realising? Is there an easy way to find out what is and isn't available? Does what is on offer vary depending on the station that the machine is located in?

I would have to check if the destinations available differ from station to station, as I'm only 'fluent' in what we have at King's X, but I would imagine that they are the same. I'm going to be doing some travelling over the next few days so I'll do a little checking and report back.

For the record, the issue with not being able to buy the correct ticket also exists on NR TVMs, and is a particularly prevalent issue at St. Pancras. Customers are purchasing a ticket to their final destination which doesn't include an Underground journey; depending on destination, the ticket is issued either from London Terminals or from London St. Pancras. Most of the time there's a circuitous route available via Thameslink, but it relates in a lot of disgruntled customers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Can National Rail ticket outlets now refund/exchange LU-issued tickets?

It was a while ago, but I remember having problems with this in the past. Has this changed?

I confess, I do not know the answer to this. Considering we won't handle NR-issued tickets, I would suspect not. Hardly helpful when we are being given the advice I posted above, I agree!

 

[plcd1]

Thanks for this explanation. I wish I'd seen it before going to check. I wonder if LTW are aware that customers may be sold an inappropriate/more expensive ticket without realising? Is there an easy way to find out what is and isn't available? Does what is on offer vary depending on the station that the machine is located in?

The situation with NR (or BR) destinations sold from LU stations goes back eons into history with the old "through booking" area which was always a subset of the old Southern region and bits and bobs north of the Thames. It was never comprehensive in terms of stations served nor the ticket types available.

When UTS (the ticketing system) was created in the 1980s there was a limit on the broad range of BR stations the system recognised plus a local smaller special subset which allowed for one off destinations where LU was caught by having to serve more destinations at specific locations. The old "Section T" stations like Highbury which had special stations on the Great Northern because there was a direct train. Other non Section T LU stations couldn't sell to these special stations. Each Section T station had its own customised list.

UTS was not able to cope with changes to the BR and later NR ticketing structures nor the break up of long held relationships between single and return fare pricing. I know all this because I helped create and test all the base data for every LU station that had UTS equipment in it. I was also around when the divergence between the respective commercial regimes grew. BR refused to fund system changes and there was no business case for LU to do it as a one off exercise. Therefore there have been pricing issues / differences for decades. I am sure LTW (LRPC as was) are well aware.

I was involved in a very long debate with the old London Regional Passengers Committee (LRPC, now London Travelwatch) over Stratford Station when the JLE was being built. LU took over the station and wanted to get out of the BR national ticketing obligations. There was a full analysis of ticket sales and transactions and the proposed LU set up could have done nearly 100% of transactions but not everything. LRPC refused to budge one jot on retaining full national ticket retailing. This is why temporary offices were hidden round corners and all sorts of other nonsense to try to cope. I understand why LRPC had the position they did - for them it was a principle not to be watered down regardless of the cost to the operator.

I understand that with the closure of LU's ticket offices that several places have had TOC windows added on to maintain national ticketing or because the TOC is happy to take the cost risk in the belief the revenue will cover it (Tottenham Hale is one such example).

Now life has moved on a very long way since then and I am not wholly up to date but I have seen nothing that suggests LU has had or currently has any appetite to align itself with the National ticketing obligations that TOCs have to comply with. This doesn't surprise me one bit because LU has always been of the view that it does not want to deal with complex, involved transactions that hold up queues, cause delays and which require a disproportionate training overhead.

Obviously Oyster and Contactless have created a vastly different environment in terms of where transactions take place and what sort of transaction happens. This will also have eased issues like ticket extensions etc to those places that Oyster reaches. Given the implied move away from paper ticketing plus ever changing NR ticketing rules and products I am not surprised that LU has not kept up with what is happening with the TOCs. If improvements are planned I will be flabergasted if LU's machines can suddenly issue First Class Advances to Aberdeen or All Line Rover tickets or, to coin a cliche, a Kelloggs voucher discounted Granny cheap day return to Skegness. I'd also be surprised if LU was prepared to fund a rewrite of fares tables (unless they were done as Oyster was introduced) to deal with the complexity of NR pricing and products.

All of this raises some interesting questions about what MTR Crossrail will be retailing from the Crossrail stations they run compared to what LU will be retailing from the stations in Zone 1 that will have Crossrail platforms and new ticket halls. Again I don't see LU wanting to retail tickets, even from its own ticket machines, like Advances to Norwich or Penzance or even a single to Westbury from TCR or Bond St. The other factor is the likely scale of demand - I appreciate Crossrail creates new travel opportunities but I am doubtful that significant numbers of people would want to buy "Inter City" type products at TCR or Bond St or Whitechapel. Other places will have the option of a TOC run ticket office "upstairs". I expect there will always be some level of fares discrepancy between what LU can retail and what a fully fledged, ticket office equipped TOC can sell. I am not saying whether that is right or wrong, just that it is a very old issue which is not cheap to fix and is probably out of scope given LU has scrapped ticket office based retailing with the skilled workforce that was needed to do that role.

 

[simple simon]

Ilford will be a Crossrail station. In the past I have bought InterCity tickets here, nowadays I tend to use the Internet and collect my tickets from the machines. I like to do this in advance of travel, rather than at the last minute.

I'll be mighty peeved of Crossrail and TfL takeover deny me this.

OK, I can get them from the platform 6/8 ticket machine at Stratford (assuming that TfL dont remove that too), but only if passing through. I walk to Ilford (usually via my local park) and that way the journey to collect the tickets is free.

Simon

 

[pitdiver]

The situation with NR (or BR) destinations sold from LU stations goes back eons into history with the old "through booking" area which was always a subset of the old Southern region and bits and bobs north of the Thames. It was never comprehensive in terms of stations served nor the ticket types available.

When UTS (the ticketing system) was created in the 1980s there was a limit on the broad range of BR stations the system recognised plus a local smaller special subset which allowed for one off destinations where LU was caught by having to serve more destinations at specific locations. The old "Section T" stations like Highbury which had special stations on the Great Northern because there was a direct train. Other non Section T LU stations couldn't sell to these special stations. Each Section T station had its own customised list.

UTS was not able to cope with changes to the BR and later NR ticketing structures nor the break up of long held relationships between single and return fare pricing. I know all this because I helped create and test all the base data for every LU station that had UTS equipment in it. I was also around when the divergence between the respective commercial regimes grew. BR refused to fund system changes and there was no business case for LU to do it as a one off exercise. Therefore there have been pricing issues / differences for decades. I am sure LTW (LRPC as was) are well aware.

I was involved in a very long debate with the old London Regional Passengers Committee (LRPC, now London Travelwatch) over Stratford Station when the JLE was being built. LU took over the station and wanted to get out of the BR national ticketing obligations. There was a full analysis of ticket sales and transactions and the proposed LU set up could have done nearly 100% of transactions but not everything. LRPC refused to budge one jot on retaining full national ticket retailing. This is why temporary offices were hidden round corners and all sorts of other nonsense to try to cope. I understand why LRPC had the position they did - for them it was a principle not to be watered down regardless of the cost to the operator.

I understand that with the closure of LU's ticket offices that several places have had TOC windows added on to maintain national ticketing or because the TOC is happy to take the cost risk in the belief the revenue will cover it (Tottenham Hale is one such example).

Now life has moved on a very long way since then and I am not wholly up to date but I have seen nothing that suggests LU has had or currently has any appetite to align itself with the National ticketing obligations that TOCs have to comply with. This doesn't surprise me one bit because LU has always been of the view that it does not want to deal with complex, involved transactions that hold up queues, cause delays and which require a disproportionate training overhead.

Obviously Oyster and Contactless have created a vastly different environment in terms of where transactions take place and what sort of transaction happens. This will also have eased issues like ticket extensions etc to those places that Oyster reaches. Given the implied move away from paper ticketing plus ever changing NR ticketing rules and products I am not surprised that LU has not kept up with what is happening with the TOCs. If improvements are planned I will be flabergasted if LU's machines can suddenly issue First Class Advances to Aberdeen or All Line Rover tickets or, to coin a cliche, a Kelloggs voucher discounted Granny cheap day return to Skegness. I'd also be surprised if LU was prepared to fund a rewrite of fares tables (unless they were done as Oyster was introduced) to deal with the complexity of NR pricing and products.

All of this raises some interesting questions about what MTR Crossrail will be retailing from the Crossrail stations they run compared to what LU will be retailing from the stations in Zone 1 that will have Crossrail platforms and new ticket halls. Again I don't see LU wanting to retail tickets, even from its own ticket machines, like Advances to Norwich or Penzance or even a single to Westbury from TCR or Bond St. The other factor is the likely scale of demand - I appreciate Crossrail creates new travel opportunities but I am doubtful that significant numbers of people would want to buy "Inter City" type products at TCR or Bond St or Whitechapel. Other places will have the option of a TOC run ticket office "upstairs". I expect there will always be some level of fares discrepancy between what LU can retail and what a fully fledged, ticket office equipped TOC can sell. I am not saying whether that is right or wrong, just that it is a very old issue which is not cheap to fix and is probably out of scope given LU has scrapped ticket office based retailing with the skilled workforce that was needed to do that role.

I worked at a couple of " Section T" stations during my time on LUL.My did we have fun with the ticketing. After coming from a quiet backwater Stn at the north end of the Met to Farringdon was a shock but Moorgate Met although quieter still a bit of a nightmare at times.