Which were the last trains without hustle alarms and the first to have them?

[Bikeman78]

Which were the last sliding door trains to run in the UK without a warning sound prior to the doors closing? I think the D stock was the last on the Underground but I can't think what was last on National Rail.

Which trains were first to have a warning? I recall the 455s did not have them when they were new. Hustle alarms were fitted in the late 1980s. I guess the same applies to the phase one 317s. What about the phase two 317s? The first trains I can recall having a warning were the 319s which had it from new.

By way of comparison, the last Dutch trains without hustle alarms were withdrawn last December. The Belgians still have trains without them. I guess the Germans still have some N Wagen stock still running around?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Quite possibly Merseyrail Class 507/508, they were added in the late 1990s long after 150s and the likes all had them. 156s might be in the running, though, I seem to recall them being added to those quite late too. Interestingly their fitting caused 2 minutes to need to be added to Ormskirk-Liverpool running times.

By way of comparison, the last Dutch trains without hustle alarms were withdrawn last December. The Belgians still have trains without them. I guess the Germans still have some N Wagen stock still running around?

Not sure how many Buntlinge (n-Wagen) are still knocking around, but even by the late 90s lots of them had hustle alarms retrofitted. There are also some ex-IR coaches knocking around with the same type of door (a true design classic) but I think those have probably been retrofitted by now, but then again maybe not.

I think a fair bit of SBB stock doesn't have them, I certainly recall being belted (hard) on the arm by a door closing unexpectedly quite recently.

 

[Mojo]

How about HST trailers / Mk 3 loco hauled stock before they were fitted with sliding doors

 

[Qwerty133]

How about HST trailers / Mk 3 loco hauled stock before they were fitted with sliding doors

The thread is specifically about stock with sliding doors so they wouldn't count

 

[bengley]

Do the 38 stock on the Isle of Wight have hustle alarms? I don't remember there being any!

 

[Mag_seven]

I think the D stock was the last on the Underground but I can't think what was last on National Rail.

I'm sure D stock did have hustle alarms?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm sure D stock did have hustle alarms?

If I recall correctly it was fitted at refurb, but that was quite recent.

Like 507/508, D-stock had quite noisy and slow doors, so it was a box-ticking thing rather than people getting trapped by doors closing unexpectedly.

 

[Mojo]

I'm sure D stock did have hustle alarms?

A system of door chimes in a round about manner was fitted as part of the refurbishment between 2004-08. I say round about because unlike other stocks the chimes are not played separately but were broadcast over the main PA system, for instance if a manual announcement was being made then the chimes would not be audible, and if the doors were closed then an automatic announcement would be cut off.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A system of door chimes in a round about manner was fitted as part of the refurbishment between 2004-08. I say round about because unlike other stocks the chimes are not played separately but were broadcast over the main PA system, for instance if a manual announcement was being made then the chimes would not be audible, and if the doors were closed then an automatic announcement would be cut off.

I seem to recall that the Metrolink T68s also played it via the PA.

 

[Bikeman78]

If I recall correctly it was fitted at refurb, but that was quite recent.

Like 507/508, D-stock had quite noisy and slow doors, so it was a box-ticking thing rather than people getting trapped by doors closing unexpectedly.

Yes the D stock had alarms fitted at refurb, nevertheless I think they were the last on the Underground not to have them. All the other old trains were already refurbished. You are right about the loud hissing sound. In fact that sound started before the alarms on the refurbs!

Quite possibly Merseyrail Class 507/508, they were added in the late 1990s long after 150s and the likes all had them. 156s might be in the running, though, I seem to recall them being added to those quite late too. Interestingly their fitting caused 2 minutes to need to be added to Ormskirk-Liverpool running times.



Not sure how many Buntlinge (n-Wagen) are still knocking around, but even by the late 90s lots of them had hustle alarms retrofitted. There are also some ex-IR coaches knocking around with the same type of door (a true design classic) but I think those have probably been retrofitted by now, but then again maybe not.

I think a fair bit of SBB stock doesn't have them, I certainly recall being belted (hard) on the arm by a door closing unexpectedly quite recently.

Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong carriages. I was in Germany in 2008 for 218s around Munich and Ulm. I'm sure the stock did not have alarms, it was the old stock with folding doors at one thirds/two thirds. They slammed shut with an almighty bang. The Dutch plan W were exactly the same. They were withdrawn around the year 2000 but came back several years later. They seemed a lot louder and more brutal the second time around, compared with the ICR with their gentle slow closing plug doors.

 

[Taunton]

They were in use in Europe well before this. The Paris Metro seemed to have them on stock from the late 1960s onwards (the middle-C hoot "Bruiteur"). The Berlin S-Bahn also had them on the DDR side on the pre-war trains (all they had, but refurbed) back in the 1980s, a bell like a loud fire bell. These were obviously not interconnected because not only did the train sometimes start, quite sharply, before it had finished, the doors might not even be fully closed yet!

The big hiss from the classic Underground etc doors came from the style of door control. A small air cylinder kept them closed. To open them a larger air cylinder was filled by a valve, and overcame the small one. When the door closed was operated, the large cylinder was exhausted. That was the hiss. I knew them in my teenage years from the old 1938 Wirral electrics, based by Met-Cam/BRCW on their Underground stock. Used to "practice" with the passenger door controls when they were standing at West Kirby before starting, somewhat unattended, to make the compressor etc start up.

 

[Neptune]

The unrefurbished Heaton 156's didn't have them prior to refurbishment in 2001. I remember working 156448 on Leeds - Forster Square shuttles one evening in 2001 which didn't have them. I even put it in the repair book (it was that long since I'd last worked a unit without hustle alarms) and after consulting control who evidently didn't know it wasn't fitted and they just told me to blow my whistle prior to closing the doors . Sadly I never worked it for some time so will never know the no doubt sarcastic reply my 'fault' got.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong carriages. I was in Germany in 2008 for 218s around Munich and Ulm. I'm sure the stock did not have alarms, it was the old stock with folding doors at one thirds/two thirds. They slammed shut with an almighty bang. The Dutch plan W were exactly the same. They were withdrawn around the year 2000 but came back several years later. They seemed a lot louder and more brutal the second time around, compared with the ICR with their gentle slow closing plug doors.

No, those are the same thing I'm talking about. There are "Buntlinge"[1] in all sorts of states - some were fitted with hustle alarms in the 1990s, some possibly later, but they may well not all have got them before withdrawal. Not many of those about now, if any?

I don't think the Plan W coaches came back, what they did was buy and refurbish old DB Bm compartment coaches and take some of the walls out.

[1] This name comes from their original name "Silberling" from the silver colour, "Bunt" means "bright" because they were later painted, you also see "Rotling" and "Gruenling" if being specific about what colour.

 

[Journeyman]

Do the 38 stock on the Isle of Wight have hustle alarms? I don't remember there being any!

No, they don't, easily making them the last without them by a very long way.

The doors close very sluggishly and noisily, so it's not much of a problem!

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

The big hiss from the classic Underground etc doors came from the style of door control. A small air cylinder kept them closed. To open them a larger air cylinder was filled by a valve, and overcame the small one. When the door closed was operated, the large cylinder was exhausted. That was the hiss.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I always assumed that the hiss before the doors closed on the D stock was deliberately engineered to serve as a warning sound.

 

[Bikeman78]

No, those are the same thing I'm talking about. There are "Buntlinge"[1] in all sorts of states - some were fitted with hustle alarms in the 1990s, some possibly later, but they may well not all have got them before withdrawal. Not many of those about now, if any?

I don't think the Plan W coaches came back, what they did was buy and refurbish old DB Bm compartment coaches and take some of the walls out.

[1] This name comes from their original name "Silberling" from the silver colour, "Bunt" means "bright" because they were later painted, you also see "Rotling" and "Gruenling" if being specific about what colour.

The plan W definitely did come back. I can't recall the year but I travelled on them in the mid 2000s on the well known loco hauled route from Haarlem to Maastricht. As you say, NS bought some compartment coaches from DB which finished off the plan W the second time round.

 

[Dstock7080]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I always assumed that the hiss before the doors closed on the D stock was deliberately engineered to serve as a warning sound.

Unfortunately not.
LT tried various methods to silence the door engines, an electric door trial on two 1959 Stock trains and the C77 Stock were fitted with virtually silent pneumatic door valves.