Whistles at train stations

[CheesyChips]

At Reading station this afternoon, I noticed somebody on the platform with a whistle, mimicking one of the train dispatchers. Copying their use of the whistle and randomly whistling.

This strikes me as being quite a dangerous thing to do. Is there any byelaw that this would be caught under? Of course there’s no law against using a whistle in public but this exact scenario could cause serious confusion in a safety-critical scenario.

 

[221129]

Are you sure it wasn't another member of staff?

 

[tsr]

Whistles are not part of the formalised dispatch process in the Rule Book, although local regulations may require them as an additional item to be used (or carried by certain staff, etc. etc.).

It therefore follows that they technically shouldn't be used as an alternative to, or implication of, any signal to be given under the Rule Book. Therefore hopefully safety was maintained. Obviously this is quite sensible - it is relatively easy for a member of the public to acquire a whistle, less so a dispatch bat, full GWR uniform, or RA indicator!

However... being sensible for a moment.

This is, of course, a rather stupid thing for bystanders to be doing. It only takes a moment of misjudgment at the end of a long shift to interpret a whistle as something which it isn't, such as an indication of the train being safe to proceed.

I would hope platform staff would "encourage" this not to be done, if they felt it necessary.

There are various byelaws which can apply to using audio devices and musical instruments on stations, and behaving inconsiderately. If the worst came to the worst, these could be enforced, I'm sure.

There are circumstances where non-uniformed staff could be using a whistle. One such occasion is when managers need to stop a candidate who is being assessed. The candidate may be briefed that the relevant person blowing a whistle would be a signal to stop what they are doing. If someone is blowing a whistle repeatedly and nobody is taking much notice, chances are that this is not the case.

 

[daikilo]

At Reading station this afternoon, I noticed somebody on the platform with a whistle, mimicking one of the train dispatchers. Copying their use of the whistle and randomly whistling.

This strikes me as being quite a dangerous thing to do. Is there any byelaw that this would be caught under? Of course there’s no law against using a whistle in public but this exact scenario could cause serious confusion in a safety-critical scenario.

I can't see how this could be dangerous as some form of hand or light signal would be needed before the train can move. It would however be annoying and potentially cause disruption.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Like some comments have already suggested, it might be annoying but I can't see how it is dangerous. The driver gets the right away either by the Train Manager/Conductor giving the buzzer or the platform staff using the RA indicator.

I'm thinking the same as 221129: What platform was this on and was this during a train despatch?

 

[Nean]

Like some comments have already suggested, it might be annoying but I can't see how it is dangerous. The driver gets the right away either by the Train Manager/Conductor giving the buzzer or the platform staff using the RA indicator.

I'm thinking the same as 221129: What platform was this on and was this during a train despatch?

Passenger with heavy bags hearing the whistle and attempting to run to the train springs to mind as the most likely dangerous scenario... especially if they're just coming down the stairs.

 

[Sprinter153]

Like some comments have already suggested, it might be annoying but I can't see how it is dangerous. The driver gets the right away either by the Train Manager/Conductor giving the buzzer or the platform staff using the RA indicator.

Like some comments have already suggested, a single moment of misjudgment if you're fatigued or distracted could lead to safety being compromised.

This person is a regular fixture at Reading. I'm guessing he's somewhere on the autistic spectrum. He does like to stand in front of the dispatchers which can be a pain, but I don't think anyone has the heart to send him packing.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Passenger with heavy bags hearing the whistle and attempting to run to the train springs to mind as the most likely dangerous scenario... especially if they're just coming down the stairs.

A fair point.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Like some comments have already suggested, a single moment of misjudgment if you're fatigued or distracted could lead to safety being compromised.

This person is a regular fixture at Reading. I'm guessing he's somewhere on the autistic spectrum. He does like to stand in front of the dispatchers which can be a pain, but I don't think anyone has the heart to send him packing.

Oh ok apologies I didn't realise.

 

[Antman]

The only thing whistles seem to be used for nowadays is to hurry passengers along.

A bit stupid for a member of the public to be blowing a whistle on a platform though.

 

[TheEdge]

This person is a regular fixture at Reading. I'm guessing he's somewhere on the autistic spectrum. He does like to stand in front of the dispatchers which can be a pain, but I don't think anyone has the heart to send him packing.

I believe there was a similar case at Ipswich for a while if I remember correctly (many years ago). This person was also on the spectrum and known to staff but in that case as well as whistles they were waving things. I believe they were asked to either stop or leave.

In some cases it does have to be done.

 

[Jonfun]

Yet again another situation where someone acting irresponsibly and disruptively is put down to their having "autism".

There are several people I care about deeply who have autism and would be greatly offended by the suggestion that autism is some kind of get out clause for bad behaviour. It implies they are some form of walking cabbage when actually, autistic people often have a very impressive level of intelligence (albeit often on a small number of specific subjects).

 

[CheesyChips]

I'm thinking the same as 221129: What platform was this on and was this during a train despatch?

It was during train despatch. I heard the familiar whistle sounds (which I don’t understand, but am familiar with) but then a slightly different uncoordinated tone pricked my ears up and when I looked over there was a strangely dressed person who was obviously not a member of staff jumping around blowing his whistle.

 

[centraltrains]

Yet again another situation where someone acting irresponsibly and disruptively is put down to their having "autism".

It doesn't help that the 3 sub-types of autism are just diagnosed as the same condition these days... https://www.asws.org/WhatisAutism.aspx

The classic autism certainly doesn't give intellectual advantages...


@Sussex Guy, Heavily agree with "The only thing whistles seem to be used for nowadays is to hurry passengers along." though isn't there an emergency stop procedure with whistles? (end of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoY7Pw88CkE)

 

[Sprinter153]

@Sussex Guy, Heavily agree with "The only thing whistles seem to be used for nowadays is to hurry passengers along." though isn't there an emergency stop procedure with whistles? (end of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoY7Pw88CkE)

The use of a whistle isn't required by the Rule Book itself but the GWR Appendix to the Rule book requires a whistle for dispatch:

Guards and Station Staff: A whistle must be used to advise of the imminent departure of the train.

Guards: Guards must clearly acknowledge the signal by raising one arm above their head. During the house of darkness and poor visibility acknowledgement may be made by use of a white light steadily held above the head - this should be supplemented by a whistle.

And specifically for emergency stops:

All staff: If it is necessary to stop a train in an emergency, staff must display a hand danger signal. This signal comprises of both arms raised above the head. In the hours of darkness this must be replaced by a red danger hand signal or any light waved vigorously. All of these signals must be emphasised by a whistle or other audible warning.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The only thing whistles seem to be used for nowadays is to hurry passengers along.

A bit stupid for a member of the public to be blowing a whistle on a platform though.

Things like whistles are pretty easy to get hold of. There are other situations where a member of the public could cause disruption with a whistle, football matches for example: not a major issue with 24,000 in a stadium but at non-league games with 300 in it could be a problem- that said, I've never noticed it be a problem and it's not as if searches are carried out.

As stated by others the whistle is not routinely used on the railway any longer but the typical occasional traveller won't necessarily know this so could be prompted to run for a train they think is about to depart.

Yet again another situation where someone acting irresponsibly and disruptively is put down to their having "autism".

There are several people I care about deeply who have autism and would be greatly offended by the suggestion that autism is some kind of get out clause for bad behaviour. It implies they are some form of walking cabbage when actually, autistic people often have a very impressive level of intelligence (albeit often on a small number of specific subjects).

More annoying is when others try to speak on our behalf. I'm on the autistic spectrum and have been known to act in a way that others find unnerving. Not often, and when it happens and I realise it can be embarrassing, so I try to keep it in check. 99% of the time I manage quite well, I hope! If the person in question actually ever does endanger safety, I'd hope that staff would deal with it sensitively but decisively.

EDIT: A case in point, my first sentence of the above paragraph was a bit harsh, so apologies to Jonfun.

By definition, the Autistic spectrum covers a wide range of things. For every person who gets by pretty well even by "neurotypical" standards there a dozen in my position who are just about coping, and probably 3 or 4 who are unable to cope with life without a lot of hands-on support.

 

[waterlooroader]

Things like whistles are pretty easy to get hold of. There are other situations where a member of the public could cause disruption with a whistle, football matches for example: not a major issue with 24,000 in a stadium but at non-league games with 300 in it could be a problem- that said, I've never noticed it be a problem and it's not as if searches are carried out.

This happened in a game my Dad (An ex-Football League referee) was involved in back in the 90s; when Brighton were going through issues with their ex-board of directors following the sale of the Goldstone Ground they seemed to have a protest each week and one of the ones they used was a whistle protest, basically involving a few thousand blowing whistles to try and disrupt the match. In the end it was academic as the crowd whistles were a different tone to the whistles my Dad had, but he told the players that if his whistle couldn't be distinguished from the crowd he would shout "STOP PLAY" or something similar followed by the appropriate hand signal.

In a station situation, as others have said even if a whistle is not required in the Rule Book, it would cause confusion at the very least; I imagine if it became an issue staff would encourage the perpetrator to stop or remove them from the area, regardless of his circumstances.

 

[D Foster]

Yet again another situation where someone acting irresponsibly and disruptively is put down to their having "autism".

There are several people I care about deeply who have autism and would be greatly offended by the suggestion that autism is some kind of get out clause for bad behaviour. It implies they are some form of walking cabbage when actually, autistic people often have a very impressive level of intelligence (albeit often on a small number of specific subjects).

Full support for the positive understanding of autism.

I would be surprised if any regular staff at a location were not aware of any interesting characters - of the whole range of variety not only autism - and would work with them appropriately. In many cases train crews will have similar knowledge for their route.

I would note that autistic or whatever some (many) of the interesting characters make the day go by more pleasantly. Again, many are helpful and useful for watching out for unusual situations.

At the extreme any conduct on or around the railway which may be perceived by a court to be dangerous may come under the heading of behaviour likely to cause danger on the railway. While I don't recall the exact title this level of behaviour is not just subject to by-laws but is a criminal offence. In addition, while most trespass is a civil matter, trespass on the railway is a criminal offence. In addition to being anywhere on the railway one should not be (for most people anywhere other than on a platform or similar public access place) behaviour becomes trespass on the railway if one fails to leave the railway when requested to do so by an officer of the railway - in this case any railway employee is regarded as an officer of the railway. Law enforcement officers don't have to be involved.
Having been many years on the railway I can recall times when we at the least used the suggestion of arrest as a means of moving people away but the development of "soft and cuddly - mustn't hurt an offender" policies mean that I would usually no longer even remotely refer to the law - but I would call for police assistance much sooner. (This of course makes for much more work for the police - but - if the police and the courts act against reasonable application of common sense - they land themselves with more work).

Edit: IRRC the crime is "Endangering Life on the Railway". This is open to extremely broad interpretation. It could, for example, be used to prosecute for defacing safety signs with graffiti.
Edit 2: Just recalled - some of the earlier (cast iron) Trespass signs quoted the Act of Parliament - "Vicxxx Chap xxx" or whatever it was. The signs on public parks (beloved of "Parkies") quoted the byelaws.

 

[Filton Bank]

At Reading station this afternoon, I noticed somebody on the platform with a whistle, mimicking one of the train dispatchers. Copying their use of the whistle and randomly whistling.

This strikes me as being quite a dangerous thing to do. Is there any byelaw that this would be caught under? Of course there’s no law against using a whistle in public but this exact scenario could cause serious confusion in a safety-critical scenario.

There has been a drive to boost performance at GWR recently which has included staff normally based in offices getting out and about on stations to assist with despatch by e.g., helping passengers on & off trains and shutting HST doors. It could have been that you saw maybe?

 

[Dougal2345]

Changing the subject slightly, I have mild tinnitus and find an enthusiastic blast from a guard's whistle pretty unpleasant at close quarters, to the point where I try and block my ears if I'm nearing one who seems about to blow.

Younger members of staff love to blow their whistles as loudly as they can, often in a cheery staccato fashion... And one particularly bad situation is when you're in the train and a guard is leaning out, about to close the door, and gives a blast on it then... That can 'stun' my hearing for hours...

A total ban would cheer me up