White lines on platform edges

[Andy873]

I was just looking through some old railway photos with regards to the milk churn thread and noticed some photos have a white line along the platform edges, and some don't. One photo even shows a guy at track level repainting a platform edge white.

All these photos range from around 1950 to around the mid 1960's, unfortunately those that show the stations (Lancs BR LM region) unlike the photos of the trains are undated.

Was the painting of platform edges brought in gradually over time or from a certain year?
Was this a BR thing? or did it start with the big four pre BR?
And why white? maybe it was easier to see on a dark platform at night? We usually use red to denote danger but that's difficult to see on a poorly lit platform at night.

I have in my collection two photos of one particular station, one we know is 1952, it has the white line and it's dated, the other one isn't dated and doesn't show the white line and is pre 1952.

 

[Snow1964]

Wasn't it something done during the war, like the white bands on canopy columns to help visibility during the blackout.

I am guessing only came in as a safety requirement later

 

[Rescars]

In my youth I recall seeing this being done, not with paint but with whitewash. The porter doing it had a pail of wash and a peculiar long handled brush with two heads set at right angles. Pushing this along the platform both whitened the vertical edge and ensured a constant width of white line on the horizontal edge. This needed to be done reasonably frequently to keep the edge bright, especially during spells of wet weather.

 

[Andy873]

I found a reply in a different section of the website here, have a read of reply #5 from 2011:

Platform edge white lining.

Is there any legal or legislative requirement for TOC's or Network Rail to ensure platform edge white lines are painted regularly? Lots of stations appear not to have theirs done for some time.

www.railforums.co.uk

Wasn't it something done during the war, like the white bands on canopy columns to help visibility during the blackout.

In my youth I recall seeing this being done, not with paint but with whitewash. The porter doing it had a pail of wash and a peculiar long handled brush with two heads set at right angles. Pushing this along the platform both whitened the vertical edge and ensured a constant width of white line on the horizontal edge. This needed to be done reasonably frequently to keep the edge bright, especially during spells of wet weather.

Didn't know is was whitewash, it looks like the white line is not a method of getting an approximate date for a photo then. Several photos from the 1960's show stations without a white line, perhaps the whitewash had gone over time?

 

[randyrippley]

I have a feeling that at one stage it was an ad-hoc safety device on narrow platforms

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Was it connected with the weather conditions in the 1940s / 1950s, i.e. a great deal of smog caused by the burning of coal?

 

[WesternLancer]

1949 credited pic here at Groombridge shows the white platform edge very clearly. So does that make it likely to have been a war time thing? - or could it have started pre WW2?

Disused Stations: Groombridge Station

I would think searching more old station pics with accurate dates would help where images are clearer.

But here at Galashiels pics in 1948 and 1950 no white edges (but later 1962 pic shows done, as I have seen elsewhere in images, with alternate edge stones painted white)

Disused Stations: Galashiels Station

 

[devon_belle]

Supposedly it was first done in wartime to stop people from falling off of platforms during blackouts. The dashed version seems to be earlier than the solid line. At stations where this wasn't deemed a risk, the work was not carried out - which may explain some examples without the line in the late 40s/early 50s. It could also be that it has weathered to the point of being indiscernible on photographs.

 

[zwk500]

Supposedly it was first done in wartime to stop people from falling off of platforms during blackouts. The dashed version seems to be earlier than the solid line. At stations where this wasn't deemed a risk, the work was not carried out - which may explain some examples without the line in the late 40s/early 50s. It could also be that it has weathered to the point of being indiscernible on photographs.

Here's one for the photo sleuths! https://friendsofhoneywood.co.uk/1930s.html. Picture of SR Loco, claimed to be in 1930s (Carshalton Station shortly before commencement of electric services), with white lines clearly visible on both platform edges.

So the questions - is it definitely a 1930s picture? Am I right that there are white lines on each platform edge? If yes to both, does this disprove that white lines were a wartime measure, or is there a specific reason why this station received them early?

1930s Drummond L12 4-4-0 number 442 passing through Carshalton Station. Probably taken shortly before the electric service to Portsmouth via Mitcham Junction was inaugurated. Note that the third coach is a Pullman. Picture Copyright © The Mike Morant Collection

 

[devon_belle]

So the questions - is it definitely a 1930s picture? Am I right that there are white lines on each platform edge? If yes to both, does this disprove that white lines were a wartime measure, or is there a specific reason why this station received them early?

Excellent find. I think you are right that edges have white lines. (When I wrote my post, I did think I had seen pictures from the 30s with white lines but couldn't corroborate it while on GWR WiFi - I'll check for more evidence when I'm home).

A couple of things date the photo to the 30s:

1. Enamel advertisements on the station. These were phased out from the late 20s and would be mostly extinct by the start of WWII.
2. The engine is in Maunsell lined green livery, which was used from c1925 (1923 if you count re-lettered LSWR Urie lined presto green) until approx 1939 (although survived in various guises on some engines until nationalisation).
3. The bufferbeam numerals are in a 'serif' style. In 1931 the Eastleigh 'block' style was replaced with the Ashford 'serif' style. Note: if it wasn't an Eastleigh engine, it would have been renumbered to a 4-digit number in 1931, which would give this photo as before that date.
4. I believe that having a Pullman car in a rake was Brighton practice, which became much less common post-war.

 

[zwk500]

Excellent find. I think you are right that edges have white lines. (When I wrote my post, I did think I had seen pictures from the 30s with white lines but couldn't corroborate it while on GWR WiFi - I'll check for more evidence when I'm home).

A couple of things date the photo to the 30s:

1. Enamel advertisements on the station. These were phased out from the late 20s and would be mostly extinct by the start of WWII.
2. The engine is in Maunsell lined green livery, which was used from c1925 (1923 if you count re-lettered LSWR Urie lined presto green) until approx 1939 (although survived in various guises on some engines until nationalisation).
3. The bufferbeam numerals are in a 'serif' style. In 1931 the Eastleigh 'block' style was replaced with the Ashford 'serif' style. Note: if it wasn't an Eastleigh engine, it would have been renumbered to a 4-digit number in 1931, which would give this photo as before that date.
4. I believe that having a Pullman car in a rake was Brighton practice, which became much less common post-war.

Thanks. I have also seen a google image search result of Grantham station with clear white lines on the edge captioned 'G.N.R. Station, Grantham' but couldn't get a sensible link to it.

 

[devon_belle]

From SREMG groups.io post 28/04/2001 which quotes the November 1937 Fog and Falling Snow Instructions:

'Whitening edges of station platforms - During the period from 1st September to 30th April the edges of platforms at all stations in the electrified area must be kept whitened for a width of not more than five inches throughout, except that ramps must not be whitened.

At certain of the electrified stations and at some other stations the edges of platforms will be whitened throughout the year in accordance with instructions which will be given by the Divisional Superintendent.'

 

[WesternLancer]

From SREMG groups.io post 28/04/2001 which quotes the November 1937 Fog and Falling Snow Instructions:

Does this suggest that following what we would now call a risk assessment process, the chances of a person falling off the platform and thus potentially getting electrocuted and being killed was now much higher (as before risk was more about injury from fall or imminent train) that it was decided on relevant routes to white edge the platforms? It would make a lot of sense if it was the case.

I wonder what LT practice was on the underground - and overground sections?

 

[devon_belle]

Does this suggest that following what we would now call a risk assessment process, the chances of a person falling off the platform and thus potentially getting electrocuted and being killed was now much higher (as before risk was more about injury from fall or imminent train) that it was decided on relevant routes to white edge the platforms? It would make a lot of sense if it was the case.

Possibly. When I get a chance I will seek out similarly dated photos from electrified and steam lines to see if the change was actually applied first to the electrified network.

I've seen a number of early pictures (around/pre-WWI) of electrified platforms where the third rail is actually on the platform edge side, rather than in the 6 foot. I will try and find them and see if the platform edge was painted in these cases...

 

[zwk500]

From SREMG groups.io post 28/04/2001 which quotes the November 1937 Fog and Falling Snow Instructions:

Excellent find, thank you!

 

[Rescars]

Here's one for the photo sleuths! https://friendsofhoneywood.co.uk/1930s.html. Picture of SR Loco, claimed to be in 1930s (Carshalton Station shortly before commencement of electric services), with white lines clearly visible on both platform edges.

So the questions - is it definitely a 1930s picture? Am I right that there are white lines on each platform edge? If yes to both, does this disprove that white lines were a wartime measure, or is there a specific reason why this station received them early?

Your link to the Friends of Honeywood site includes a 1930s photo of Wallington goods shed and a London-bound electric. This shows a clean white edge to the down platform too.

 

[devon_belle]

Interesting photo of Seaton where only a small part of the platform has a white line: https://www.flickr.com/photos/110691393@N07/49151468366/

 

[WesternLancer]

Possibly. When I get a chance I will seek out similarly dated photos from electrified and steam lines to see if the change was actually applied first to the electrified network.

I've seen a number of early pictures (around/pre-WWI) of electrified platforms where the third rail is actually on the platform edge side, rather than in the 6 foot. I will try and find them and see if the platform edge was painted in these cases...

Thanks!

 

[devon_belle]

I've seen a number of early pictures (around/pre-WWI) of electrified platforms where the third rail is actually on the platform edge side, rather than in the 6 foot. I will try and find them and see if the platform edge was painted in these cases...

London Underground seemingly had white lines much earlier. A cursory glance at the London Transport Museum digital archives yielded this picture of the original Northfields station with a white line in 1908:

As you can see, the arrangement with the third rail close to the platform edge is present here.

 

[Rescars]

1949 credited pic here at Groombridge shows the white platform edge very clearly. So does that make it likely to have been a war time thing? - or could it have started pre WW2?

Disused Stations: Groombridge Station

I would think searching more old station pics with accurate dates would help where images are clearer.

But here at Galashiels pics in 1948 and 1950 no white edges (but later 1962 pic shows done, as I have seen elsewhere in images, with alternate edge stones painted white)

Disused Stations: Galashiels Station

The 1960 General Appendix states that the edges of all passenger station platforms, but not the edges of ramps, must be kept whitened, except where the station is only open during daylight hours, or by special dispensation from the District Operating Officer.

I recall seeing the whitening of alternate edging flagstones too, but I think only in Scottish Region territory. Was this a decision by the DOO, I wonder?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

On the basis of many stations , especially the quieter ones - had rock gardens and flower displays which were white washed (or the rocks / edges were) , it made huge sense for a thinking SM to get the edges whitewashed when doing same , especially with often indifferent platform lighting. WW2 of course would have hastened this process.

Certainly I seem to recall instructions on carrying out "platform edging" to do so with care , and always facing the oncoming traffic. None of this taking entire line blocks and so on......

 

[30907]

I believe that having a Pullman car in a rake was Brighton practice, which became much less common post-war.

A loco-hauled service train would be extremely rare post Mid-Sussex electrification anyway. Maybe the odd Goodwood race train, but that would have had a SPL duty number.

 

[Andy873]

Here's one for the photo sleuths! https://friendsofhoneywood.co.uk/1930s.html.

Excellent find. I think you are right that edges have white lines. (When I wrote my post, I did think I had seen pictures from the 30s with white lines but couldn't corroborate it while on GWR WiFi - I'll check for more evidence when I'm home).

A couple of things date the photo to the 30s:

I agree, it's an excellent find and so is the LT photo from 1908.

I'm glad these have been posted because in my limited photo collection I have station postcard ones from circa 1910 - no white line, one from the 1920's - no white line either. There seems to be a gap in my collection during the LMS period.

Going into the BR period and looking at one of Stuart Taylor's books the white line seems to be a mix bag, some stations (LM region) have them, some don't, some are weather worn and just visible. The photos in this book are from circa 1955 - circa 1965.

Certainly I seem to recall instructions on carrying out "platform edging" to do so with care , and always facing the oncoming traffic.

The photo of the guy painting the edge of a platform was taken at Burnley Central in 1965. He's at track level and the platform comes up to mid chest height, the two main platforms are curved and he seems to be concentrating on the painting itself. I think I can just see a member of staff at the far end standing in the middle of the two running lines keeping watch.

Interestingly, the dead end bay platforms at Rose Grove and Blackburn are not painted? whilst the main covered sections (through platforms) are.

I've always thought if there's ever a case for painting the edge of a platform it would that of a bay one which cuts straight into the main platform area? Why would they not paint these?

 

[AndyW33]

The 1960 General Appendix states that the edges of all passenger station platforms, but not the edges of ramps, must be kept whitened, except where the station is only open during daylight hours, or by special dispensation from the District Operating Officer.

I recall seeing the whitening of alternate edging flagstones too, but I think only in Scottish Region territory. Was this a decision by the DOO, I wonder?

I can certainly remember stations on the ex-GC lines such as Leicester Central having the alternate edging flagstones with white lines, as late as the 1960s, whereas stations of MR/LNWR origin in the same area had continuous white lines.

 

[Rescars]

I can certainly remember stations on the ex-GC lines such as Leicester Central having the alternate edging flagstones with white lines, as late as the 1960s, whereas stations of MR/LNWR origin in the same area had continuous white lines.

On the basis of many stations , especially the quieter ones - had rock gardens and flower displays which were white washed (or the rocks / edges were) , it made huge sense for a thinking SM to get the edges whitewashed when doing same , especially with often indifferent platform lighting. WW2 of course would have hastened this process.

Certainly I seem to recall instructions on carrying out "platform edging" to do so with care , and always facing the oncoming traffic. None of this taking entire line blocks and so on......

Or was the platform edging whitewash finding its way to helping secure a better outcome in the district "best kept station garden" competition?

 

[Andy873]

From the replies here we can conclude certain things...

White lines on some platforms were around pre WW2.
They probably did become more common during WW2.
Until around 1960, there was no obligation to paint the platform edges.
In many cases, only the covered areas of a platform were painted.
Certainly in the photos I can see, white lines were not always well maintained.

Given the replies and what we can conclude, you certainly can't date a photo just because it has / has not got a white line on a platform.

It is possible perhaps that just like the BR central London rail map of 1965 (which many stations had all around the country) (its style mirrors that of the London underground), that the white lines were slowly copied from the idea of the underground itself?

It could also be the case of the third electrified rail system being rolled out and those platforms being painted, which slowly caught on around the country - perhaps.

 

[WesternLancer]

From the replies here we can conclude certain things...

White lines on some platforms were around pre WW2.
They probably did become more common during WW2.
Until around 1960, there was no obligation to paint the platform edges.
In many cases, only the covered areas of a platform were painted.
Certainly in the photos I can see, white lines were not always well maintained.

Given the replies and what we can conclude, you certainly can't date a photo just because it has / has not got a white line on a platform.

It is possible perhaps that just like the BR central London rail map of 1965 (which many stations had all around the country) (its style mirrors that of the London underground), that the white lines were slowly copied from the idea of the underground itself?

It could also be the case of the third electrified rail system being rolled out and those platforms being painted, which slowly caught on around the country - perhaps.

I was certainly coming to the same sort of conclusions Andy - points you have made nicely set out.

 

[Andy873]

I was certainly coming to the same sort of conclusions Andy - points you have made nicely set out.

@WesternLancer, thanks for the kind words!

One other small point I've noticed is that stations which only re-opened for the local town holidays, bank holidays etc were not re-painted, there would be very little point in doing so as the public would only used them for a few days each year.