Why are on-train announcements much clearer on some services than others?

[TUC]

It is noticeable that, broadly speaking, on-train announcements are much clearer on longer distance services than on local services. I don't mean in terms of the quality of the equipment used, although that will play a part. I mean that the confidence in the voices of staff making the announcements and the clarity of their voices tends to be greater. This is clearly a generalisation. There are some staff on local services who are very confident and clear, just as there are some poorer ones on longer distance services, but broadly speaking the pattern is clear.

Why is this? Do longer distance operators have a great focus on staff training in making announcements?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Evidence, please. My experience is that the people speaking on Merseyrail, Northern and EMR are at least as good as those on Virgin (and presumably now Avanti).

 

[Rail Ranger]

There has been a very long-running issue whereby on-train announcements are too quiet to be heard on 142s, 150s and 156s. You can sometimes tell that someone is speaking but even those with normal hearing really struggle to make out what is being said. I have often mentioned this to conductors.

 

[Stampy]

There has been a very long-running issue whereby on-train announcements are too quiet to be heard on 142s, 150s and 156s. You can sometimes tell that someone is speaking but even those with normal hearing really struggle to make out what is being said. I have often mentioned this to conductors.

I've had this numerous times on EMR trains between Peterborough and Manchester - where you can hardly hear what is being announced.

It's either somebody speaking with the volume on 1, or sounding like they're speaking down a length of hose pipe....

 

[jamesst]

It also depends on the equipment working fully which at my toc can vary quite dramatically from one unit to another

 

[trainmania100]

Must say the audio quality of the PIS on the 313/2s is awful it's so very muffled

 

[LowLevel]

I've had this numerous times on EMR trains between Peterborough and Manchester - where you can hardly hear what is being announced.

It's either somebody speaking with the volume on 1, or sounding like they're speaking down a length of hose pipe....

It's the appalling TrainFX equipment retrofitted to these units that causes problems, by and large. Some of them are fine and some are unintelligible. It's the worst system I've ever worked with and borders on being a risk to safety (ever tried speaking to a train load of passengers thinking they can hear something important that you're telling them, particularly on a crush loaded train, then discovered later no one has heard a word? That's TrainFX - short of standing in the saloon while someone is announcing it gives no feedback to the crew that it has failed).

 

[Ashley Hill]

Sometimes the speakers in the ceiling become damp resulting in a muffled announcement. Equally the quality of the handsets can vary or be damaged. For example an automated announcement may blare out whilst a human one will sound quiet or distorted.

 

[coradiafan2000]

Funny. I actually think the quality of the audio is worse on GWR 800s than the quality on the mark 3s. I'm referring to when the guard does it manually, not the automatic announcements.

I get what you mean though. I always find the announcements on GWR expresses are more informative and delivered more professionally and with more enthusiasm than the ones on Valley line services out of Cardiff. They either sound bored and mumble, or hurriedly get through it so they can move on to more important matters (like the newspaper in the rear cab). (That was just a joke, don't mean to offend any guards who may be reading this).

That's not to say they're all like that. I've had some very well delivered announcements on local services, and had poor ones on intercity services in the past. Perhaps guards on local services have to do it more frequently, and thus get bored of it easier? I don't know.

 

[Llama]

It's the appalling TrainFX equipment retrofitted to these units that causes problems, by and large. Some of them are fine and some are unintelligible. It's the worst system I've ever worked with and borders on being a risk to safety (ever tried speaking to a train load of passengers thinking they can hear something important that you're telling them, particularly on a crush loaded train, then discovered later no one has heard a word? That's TrainFX - short of standing in the saloon while someone is announcing it gives no feedback to the crew that it has failed).

+1, TrainFX is a truly ridiculous system, how they've managed to make it so unreliable is quite an achievement. It's like a particularly poor sixth form project. Constant reports of it not working in various ways (no announcements in saloons, crashing/freezing, not accepting any codes, announcing only into the cabs not the saloons, cab-cab comms impossible to hear or just impossible, very loud unnecessary beeping tones from the earpiece as crew are using it, excessively bright backlight affecting visibility of drivers in the dark, lack of training/briefing info for new traincrew who have started since it was introduced) have gone nowhere for years.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Staff are generally told to talk naturally on the PA,as if talking on the phone. That is why as I understand all on train PAs were designed with telephone style handsets. Some people will speak direct into the mouthpiece as designed. Some will let it drop below their chin rendering the announcement quiet. This happens in life,look around at the way people hold phones even mobiles. The distant subscriber often complains they can't hear but where's the callers mouthpiece?

 

[weastebusdepot]

I've had this numerous times on EMR trains between Peterborough and Manchester - where you can hardly hear what is being announced.

It's either somebody speaking with the volume on 1, or sounding like they're speaking down a length of hose pipe....

If it's a 158 then that's TrainFX and there is no option to change the volume of either the input or the output. Also, whether the message was successfully heard, none of it was heard, or it cut out part way through, it all looks the same from the view of the person who made it.

 

[TUC]

It isn't just the quality of the equipment. There are some services where staff speak with greater confidence and intonation.

 

[py_megapixel]

It's the appalling TrainFX equipment retrofitted to these units that causes problems, by and large. Some of them are fine and some are unintelligible. It's the worst system I've ever worked with and borders on being a risk to safety (ever tried speaking to a train load of passengers thinking they can hear something important that you're telling them, particularly on a crush loaded train, then discovered later no one has heard a word? That's TrainFX - short of standing in the saloon while someone is announcing it gives no feedback to the crew that it has failed).

Not working on the railways, I have not encountered TFX except as a passenger, and if it was amazing from a staff perspective I would be more inclined to consider it acceptable as a passenger. But from what I have read on here, it seems like it is simply unfit for purpose.
What I have noticed as a passenger is:

• Low-quality audio with gaps between each recording ("This is - Cam and Dursley. This - is a Great Western Railway service to - Weymouth - via - Bristol Temple Meads. The next station is - Yate.)
• A very primitive system which uses the door release to work out how many stations it has passed, leading to poorly timed announcements and throwing it completely out of sync if the doors have to be reopened at a station
• Displays not updating and still showing calling points which the train has already passed
• Repeating itself or announcing unhelpful waffle
• Incorrect grammar, including removing letters from station names so that they fit on the display, despite the fact that the display scrolls.

It's simply not fit for purpose. I feel like one would get better results by training a parrot to sit in the rear cab providing announcements.

 

[johnnychips]

PY said:

‘It's simply not fit for purpose. I feel like one would get better results by training a parrot to sit in the rear cab providing announcements.’

But the parrot might not be heard. It is so frustrating when the guard makes an announcement which he/she assumes that everyone can hear when in fact it’s inaudible and/or crackling.

 

[webbfan]

Was speaking to someone from Trainfx recently and mentioned some of comments on here. He said they do count doors but only when GPS is not available - as in cannot get a signal - Birmingham New Street (BHM) is the worst place with so many tunnels, high buildings etc. Doors can be closed and if re-opened within number of seconds (specified by TOC) then system assumes still at station. Also said the wonderful recordings are provided by TOCS, Trainfx don't supply them. Latest version can have realtime data from Darwin to show estimated times of arrival - think they are the versions that have headcode enabled.

 

[py_megapixel]

Was speaking to someone from Trainfx recently and mentioned some of comments on here. He said they do count doors but only when GPS is not available - as in cannot get a signal - BHM is the worst place with so many tunnels, high buildings etc. Doors can be closed and if re-opened within number of seconds (specified by TOC) then system assumes still at station. Also said the wonderful recordings are provided by TOCS, Trainfx don't supply them. Latest version can have realtime data from Darwin to show estimated times of arrival - think they are the versions that have headcode enabled.

But what about the fact that the displays flicker and don't update properly, and the fact that staff on here consider it overly distracting? (Also, did they actually describe them as "wonderful recordings?")
It's very well saying it's integrated with live data and so on, but that's of no use unless the system is otherwise usable.

The GPS problems would be acceptable somewhere like New Street. But there have been problems with GWR's system not recognising stops at Stonehouse. The tiny GPS receiver in my phone could work out my location to a few metres' accuracy, so why not the PIS?
Do you know if it has the capability to handle short platforms and announce which doors will open?

 

[matacaster]

Despite the accent, the new northern 'geordie lad' announcements are reasonably clear.

From memory, 142 announcements are either too quiet, unintelligible or totally absent.

 

[webbfan]

Sorry, can't debate live as will have to wait till see him again, was just pointing out that uses doors closing when GPS unavailable whereas other posters have said they only use doors.
Said short platforms was one of current projects. Did say which units but can't remember what they were.

 

[Ashley Hill]

They don't like request stops. If you don't stop at them they repeat that you're still approaching that station when arriving at the next. Many guards turn them off on lines where there are request stops.

 

[Esker-pades]

They don't like request stops. If you don't stop at them they repeat that you're still approaching that station when arriving at the next. Many guards turn them off on lines where there are request stops.

I've never had problems with the ScotRail automatic announcements on the Far North and Kyle lines.

 

[py_megapixel]

I've never had problems with the ScotRail automatic announcements on the Far North and Kyle lines.

I don't believe those are provided by TrainFX; I think they chose to fit a Bombardier system instead.

 

[Camden]

Despite the accent, the new northern 'geordie lad' announcements are reasonably clear.
.

And grate.

 

[Esker-pades]

I don't believe those are provided by TrainFX; I think they chose to fit a Bombardier system instead.

I think that's correct.

 

[bunnahabhain]

I don't believe those are provided by TrainFX; I think they chose to fit a Bombardier system instead.

156503 certainly has TrainFX fitted, it also had auto announcements working as I found out when I put a code in and it came out with Glasgow Central.

 

[mrcheek]

It isn't just the quality of the equipment. There are some services where staff speak with greater confidence and intonation.

and even the same staff will sound different at different times of day. Announcements may be slower and clearer on quiet daytime trains, but more hurried on busy services where the announcer is in a hurry to get checking tickets.

Announcements may also be quieter at the end of the day when someone is tired and wants to go home! Any visitors to the Grand Pier in WEston-super-Mare may have noticed that announcements are clearer on Friday (the start of my working week!), and quieter and less clear on Tuesday afternoon!

 

[matacaster]

And grate.

Oops, forgot to mention that! (lol)

 

[work-traveller]

West Midlands Trains have refurbished some BR Class 323 units. This has included turning a manual system with clear sound quality (most of the time) into an automated system which sounds as though the speaker is behind a pillow. Something for Northern Rail passengers to look forward to when this lot is dumped on them later this year.

 

[py_megapixel]

West Midlands Trains have refurbished some BR Class 323 units. This has included turning a manual system with clear sound quality (most of the time) into an automated system which sounds as though the speaker is behind a pillow. Something for Northern Rail passengers to look forward to when this lot is dumped on them later this year.

No, Northern Rail passengers already have it! I think 3 refurbished 323s are already in service.
"Ths trn s frrrrrrrr.... Stoke... Trent... th nxt sp is.... Stockport!"

 

[Skiddaw]

On a recent Avanti service (Birmingham NS to Penrith) the automated system was on some sort of incorrect speed-up. Like playing a 33 on 45 in the old stereo days. It sounded like Pinky & Perky (or someone had been on the Nitrous Oxide ).