Why are some IETs running around with their "mouths open"?

[Western Sunset]

I can understand, to a degree, why some 5-car IETs run around with their coupling doors open, as they might be required to couple/uncouple with other units as part of their daily diagrams.

But why are some 9-car units running like this? They don't have to couple/uncouple. Is it a maintenance or spares issue?

 

[74A]

Possibly parts taken to fix a 5 car ?

It's probably more important to keep a 5 cars coupler closed. Stops dirt etc getting in the coupling mechanism which might stop it from working.

 

[Trainman40083]

Probably broken mechanism.

 

[Western 52]

At Swansea I've seen them hitting the doors to get them to open. If they tend to stick better to leave them open.

 

[D365]

At Swansea I've seen them hitting the doors to get them to open.

Anything as dramatic as this kick to a Thalys (as was) coupling door?

 

[Western 52]

Anything as dramatic as this kick to a Thalys (as was) coupling door?

Similar, but maybe a bit less forceful!

 

[Clarence Yard]

Possibly parts taken to fix a 5 car ?

It's probably more important to keep a 5 cars coupler closed. Stops dirt etc getting in the coupling mechanism which might stop it from working.

No, there is no swapping of parts. The nose cones take quite a bit of hammer from objects hitting them so the doors can easily go out of alignment.

The nose cones get opened up for other things than just coupling to another unit so you can easily get a faulty mechanism on any type of IET.

 

[Discuss223]

No, there is no swapping of parts. The nose cones take quite a bit of hammer from objects hitting them so the doors can easily go out of alignment.

Surely they are designed to withstand impact of errant birds/twigs/debris etc. The coupling doors on 390s don't seem to suffer the same problem.

 

[800001]

I can understand, to a degree, why some 5-car IETs run around with their coupling doors open, as they might be required to couple/uncouple with other units as part of their daily diagrams.

But why are some 9-car units running like this? They don't have to couple/uncouple. Is it a maintenance or spares issue?

Regardless of if a 5 car will be coupling/uncoupling during the day, the nose cone should be closed at all times, and only opened when the joining is about to take place.

The coupling doors will be open quite simply due to faults with the doors, with the air supply, the buttons to operate it, many many other reasons.

 

[Western Sunset]

This is what made me pose the question...

 

[Class15]

This is what made me pose the question...

Yes, I went down to the great western recently and was absolutely shocked at the amount of IETs with open mouths.

 

[Western 52]

800s pass my house many times a day, and it's more common than not for those covers to be open. Most of them will be dividing or joining at Swansea so probably more convenient not to bother closing them.

 

[Goldfish62]

800s pass my house many times a day, and it's more common than not for those covers to be open. Most of them will be dividing or joining at Swansea so probably more convenient not to bother closing them.

They're broken. That's from a driver I know.

 

[norbitonflyer]

There was a similar issue with the covers over the jumpers on the 442s. These apparenty had a habit of failing to stay up when lifted, and falling onto the hands of the person trying to extract the cables.
Here's one with one cover missing.

And some with the covers in the raised position

 

[DanNCL]

Seems to happen much more on the GWR units than it does on any of the other 80x fleets.

 

[800001]

800s pass my house many times a day, and it's more common than not for those covers to be open. Most of them will be dividing or joining at Swansea so probably more convenient not to bother closing them.

Regardless of coupling they should be closed at all times.
If they are open they have a fault.

However , it begs the question why is the problem so bad on GWR? Yet not on TPE, Lumo, Hull Trains and LNER?

 

[Western Sunset]

Are open (hence faulty) covers more a problem with GW IETs? Just a straw poll, but of four I saw at Westbury one day last week, three had the covers open at one end. And in all three cases it was the country, rather than the London end. These were all 9-car units.

 

[GW43125]

Regardless of coupling they should be closed at all times.
If they are open they have a fault.

However , it begs the question why is the problem so bad on GWR? Yet not on TPE, Lumo, Hull Trains and LNER?

Devil's advocate here: the above have relatively few attachments/detachments in service, so less use compared to GWR = fewer chances for them to break
Bear in mind GWR do it every 2 hours at Swansea, and there's a fair bit goes on between peaks at London, Bristol, Penzance etc.

 

[Western Sunset]

Devil's advocate here: the above have relatively few attachments/detachments in service, so less use compared to GWR = fewer chances for them to break
Bear in mind GWR do it every 2 hours at Swansea, and there's a fair bit goes on between peaks at London, Bristol, Penzance etc.

And also at Plymouth.
But the ones that split are 5-car sets. As I said in my OP, a lot of 9-car units have open nose doors, yet these don't couple/uncouple with other units in daily service.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The doors go out of alignment if hit by a substantial object. You need to have access to a working coupler for recovery purposes so if the doors are faulty for any reason they have to be left open until they are able to be fixed.

Of course, if they are moving a dead set around a Hitachi depot with their tug, Hitachi also need to have the doors open!

The GWR sets are the oldest and get a fair amount of use so if there is an ageing fault with any equipment, it will show up there first. Hitachi are having a blitz on coupler doors at the moment as there have been too many running around with faults.

 

[Prime586]

You never see a Shinkansen in service with broken nose doors. It's not like Hitachi have no prior experience in this area...

 

[PG]

Regardless of coupling they should be closed at all times.
If they are open they have a fault.

However , it begs the question why is the problem so bad on GWR? Yet not on TPE, Lumo, Hull Trains and LNER?

To my mind it begs the question - Voyagers manage fine with exposed couplers so why were the IETs designed with doors? And if they are problematic can they be permanently removed?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Regardless of coupling they should be closed at all times.
If they are open they have a fault.

However , it begs the question why is the problem so bad on GWR? Yet not on TPE, Lumo, Hull Trains and LNER?

Perhaps TPE, Lumo, Hull Trains and LNER are going to more effort to keep the nose end doors fixed ?.
Or perhaps they live with the jamming of them more than GWR do either due to less joining/splitting or just policy.

 

[800001]

Perhaps TPE, Lumo, Hull Trains and LNER are going to more effort to keep the nose end doors fixed ?.
Or perhaps they live with the jamming of them more than GWR do either due to less joining/splitting or just policy.

It’s Hitachi who maintain them, the same company that maintains GWR!

 

[D365]

To my mind it begs the question - Voyagers manage fine with exposed couplers so why were the IETs designed with doors? And if they are problematic can they be permanently removed?

Anything to do with the 140mph design speed of the 80x classes?

 

[PG]

Anything to do with the 140mph design speed of the 80x classes?

Fair point. That said they only operate at 125mph the same as Voyagers so the question still stands, can they be removed?

 

[Envoy]

Cold air is coming back from the east next week (by the look of it) with the possibility of snow. Wonder if all the gubbings inside the open nose will ice up?

 

[Peter Sarf]

It’s Hitachi who maintain them, the same company that maintains GWR!

Different depots though and different customer * for different parts of Hitachi.
* = OK arguably DaFT soonish enough.

Cold air is coming back from the east next week (by the look of it) with the possibility of snow. Wonder if all the gubbings inside the open nose will ice up?

To avoid that I blow mine regularly .

I think it is the protection from dirt and ice that will be the practical need - particularly on the 5car 80Xs that are regularly needing to use those couplings. Although the couplings themselves might be tough enough and I think the electrical contacts have their own removable cover iirc so maybe the outer cover is just cosmetic ?.

 

[Prime586]

To my mind it begs the question - Voyagers manage fine with exposed couplers so why were the IETs designed with doors?

Presumably because the AT300 'inter city' version of the Hitachi A-train was developed from the JR Kyushu 885 limited express EMU class, which has the clamshell coupling doors typical of japanese express designs. The TEMU1000 EMUs built for Taiwan and the UK Class 395s (which the IET family inherited it's general bodyshell design from) share similar cab end designs that can be traced back to the JR Class 885. The EMU3000 class ordered by Taiwan in 2018 is another AT300 variant and have cabs that more closely follow the JR 885 and UK 395/80x designs, despite only having a design speed of 93mph (as did the preceding TEMU1000 class)

Also, as mentioned previously in the thread, Voyagers were designed for a maximum speed of 125mph, whereas the Class 395s were designed to operate at 140mph on HS1. The increase in speed means more attention needs to be given to the cab nose aerodynamic design (the Class 390 also had a 140mph design speed and featured a covered coupler).

As I mentioned in my previous post, Hitachi have a lot of prior experience with this type of coupling doors both at home and on export products, so why the GWR units (and seemingly only them) are having issues with them is a bit odd. Apart from any potential damage to the coupler, running with the doors open will upset the aerodynamics and so impact the energy efficiency of the units when running at high speeds.

 

[ShadowKnight]

Perhaps as the GWR units are more likely to be to salt water/air than other IET units a reason for this?