Why aren't there ticket barriers at the entrance to Platforms 13/14 at Manchester Piccadilly?

[startingaparty]

They've installed ticket barriers to other platforms on the station. I don't understand why they think it's economical to employ 7-8 people to manually check tickets at one of the busiest platforms on the station? I use this daily and there's always a delay with people getting their tickets up on screens, fidgeting with their wallets, scrambling to find their railcards. It would be a lot smoother if they just had barriers and any issues dealt with someone on hand.

Honourable shout out to the staff on Platform 14 who treat paying customers like a herd of cattle. If you were addressed in the manner you are there in a restaurant or shop after paying >£100 for a ticket you'd be mortified.

 

[JonathanH]

They've installed ticket barriers to other platforms on the station. I don't understand why they think it's economical to employ 7-8 people to manually check tickets at one of the busiest platforms on the station?

Different companies have installed the barriers and supply the staff.

In the short term it probably is more economical to employ staff than install actual barrier gates. You would need 3 or 4 staff anyway, in the same way there are multiple barrier staff at Victoria.

 

[Class 170101]

Probably dioesn't pass the safety assessment, so stations can't have them due to lack of circulation space relative to demand.

 

[JonathanH]

Probably dioesn't pass the safety assessment, so stations can't have them due to lack of circulation space relative to demand.

Not sure about that. There are gated stations with a whole lot less circulating space than the end of platform 9-12 at Piccadilly even relative to demand.

I totally agree that they couldn't be installed on the 13-14 concourse but they don't do checks up there any more.

 

[startingaparty]

Not sure about that. There are gated stations with a whole lot less circulating space than the end of platform 9-12 at Piccadilly even relative to demand.

I totally agree that they couldn't be installed on the 13-14 concourse but they don't do checks up there any more.

I was going to say, surely there are London Underground stations with higher footfall than Platforms 13/14? If they removed the glass screens that would be a start to expanding exit space, surely?

 

[Kite159]

I guess it would make sense to extend the current gateline at Manchester Piccadilly so it covers all 12 platforms so the manual checking can be reduced. Especially as some of those revenue staff are not the brightest and can accept any old ticket without much as a glance. Although gatelines can only tell if a ticket is valid at that station, rather than what the journey someone takes

Maybe someone which can be done when GBR take over, as well as merging the separate TOC staff so they are one team.

 

[Starmill]

The real issue is that they use phones to check everyone's ticket, it takes several seconds and often they can't focus on the code so scanning is a process which causes heavy queueing.

There are also no barriers between TPE's gates and Avanti's. So it's frequently the case that you can just walk around the closed gates when either one or the other leaves them open.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I guess it would make sense to extend the current gateline at Manchester Piccadilly so it covers all 12 platforms so the manual checking can be reduced. Especially as some of those revenue staff are not the brightest and can accept any old ticket without much as a glance. Although gatelines can only tell if a ticket is valid at that station, rather than what the journey someone takes

Maybe someone which can be done when GBR take over, as well as merging the separate TOC staff so they are one team.

Picc is unusual in that the franchise agreements of two TOCs mandated them to gate their own platforms, rather than gate the whole thing. Is any other station than Euston like that?

It really needs one gateline operated by one TOC.

 

[Starmill]

Picc is unusual in that the franchise agreements of two TOCs mandated them to gate their own platforms, rather than gate the whole thing. Is any other station than Euston like that?

It really needs one gateline operated by one TOC.

I don't think there's access between the paid side at London Euston though, so it's not as it is at Manchester Piccadilly. There's London Victoria too, but again you can't change between the different operator's platforms on the paid side. Same for e.g. Liverpool Lime Street.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think there's access between the paid side at London Euston though, so it's not as it is at Manchester Piccadilly. There's London Victoria too, but again you can't change between the different operator's platforms on the paid side. Same for e.g. Liverpool Lime Street.

At Picc there only is via the bridge, there are separators at the gateline end.

 

[Western Sunset]

Doesn't/didn't Padd have a separate gateline for HEX?

 

[Starmill]

At Picc there only is via the bridge, there are separators at the gateline end.

Only between platform 7 and 8. There isn't one between platform 3 and 4.

 

[Bertie the bus]

If you were addressed in the manner you are there in a restaurant or shop after paying >£100 for a ticket you'd be mortified.

If I was spoken to by one of the smackheads on the approach road in a similar manner to how I've been spoken to by staff on P14 I would be horrified.

 

[Kite159]

Doesn't/didn't Padd have a separate gateline for HEX?

Paddington has 3 sets of barriers on the main concourse (P2 - P6, P7-P8 for HEX, P11-14) plus 3 sets on the overbridge for the same platforms (although I believe the HEX barriers are on the platform itself).

Similar to London Victoria which has 5 sets of barriers (2 lots for South Eastern [1-7, P8] then 3 lots for Southern [9 - 12, 13 - 14 [Gatwick express], 15-19] although I believe there can be access between platforms on the Southern platforms, at least for 9 - 14]

 

[JonathanH]

Paddington has 3 sets of barriers on the main concourse (P2 - P6, P7-P8 for HEX, P11-14) plus 3 sets on the overbridge for the same platforms (although I believe the HEX barriers are on the platform itself).

Paddington is 2-5, 6-7, 10-14 with 8-9 approved for installation.

It really needs one gateline operated by one TOC.

Why? There is no issue with multiple gatelines.

Glasgow Central is another large station with multiple gatelines.

There are a number of two platform / island stations I can think of - eg Welwyn Garden City, Merstham, Reigate with different platforms gated with no interchange on the trainside.

 

[Starmill]

Why? There is no issue with multiple gatelines.

The gatelines at Manchester Piccadilly aren't really there for proper revenue protection anyway. There is an ungated entrance on platform 1, and another to platforms 12, 13 and 14 via the lift from Fairfield street. They're mainly just there as a visual check, stopping opportunists who might get on without a ticket.

Some people come into the station from the multistorey car park and have to exit through the gates at the end of platform 1 to go over to the ticket machines to buy a ticket.

A proper revenue protection exercise can still be done, with staff at the entrances to each platform, and sometimes is.

 

[Falcon1200]

Why? There is no issue with multiple gatelines.

Glasgow Central is another large station with multiple gatelines.

While it would be difficult to do anything else, the multiple gatelines at Glasgow Central cause issues in the peak at the likes of Platforms 7/8, when exiting the platform adds appreciable time to one's journey.

 

[D6975]

Kings Cross has separate gatelines for 0-8, 9-11, but you used to be able to walk to the very end of 8 and get onto 9 if you briefly ignored the ‘passengers must not past this point signs’, not sure if this is still the case. There are a number of 2 and 4 platform stations that have more than one gateline. Winchester was like that when I last visited 35+ years ago. More recently Earlsfield IIRC is another as is Durham – ridiculous arrangement there for getting between the 2 platforms.

 

[Starmill]

While it would be difficult to do anything else, the multiple gatelines at Glasgow Central cause issues in the peak at the likes of Platforms 7/8, when exiting the platform adds appreciable time to one's journey.

I definitely think that section should have more gates, including taking up more space on the concourse if necessary. However there's probably a desire not to lose retail unit space around there so it may not be possible. The pandemic has probably bought some short term relief but Glasgow Central is definitely one of the places among many where in my view the gateline was causing a problem as numbers had risen so much since it was first installed. Another example where it is obvious that this is the case is Chester, where gates frequently are set to exit only, and manual checks via the side entrance are done for people to enter.

 

[geoffk]

They've installed ticket barriers to other platforms on the station. I don't understand why they think it's economical to employ 7-8 people to manually check tickets at one of the busiest platforms on the station? I use this daily and there's always a delay with people getting their tickets up on screens, fidgeting with their wallets, scrambling to find their railcards. It would be a lot smoother if they just had barriers and any issues dealt with someone on hand.

Surely you can't get on to Piccadilly at all without either a manual ticket check or passage though a barrier. Why would you need another for platforms 13/14?

 

[Starmill]

Surely you can't get on to Piccadilly at all without either a manual ticket check or passage though a barrier. Why would you need another for platforms 13/14?

You generally can. There aren't always staff checking tickets at the entrance from the multi-storey car park on platform 1. The lift from Fairfield Street is also usually not covered, although it's currently being replaced.

However I think that the OP is actually referring to the ticket checks that cover the entrances to platforms 8 - 12, which includes the indirect entrance to platforms 13 and 14.

 

[plugwash]

However I think that the OP is actually referring to the ticket checks that cover the entrances to platforms 8 - 12.

When I've been in that part of the station in recent years, there was a tensorbarrier blocking access between platforms 11 and 12 at the concourse end, and no ticket checkers checking the entrance from the concourse to platform 12 (this ironicaly meant that the door labeled "11 and 12" couldn't be used to access platform 11 (unless you ducked under the tensorbarrier or went the long way round via the link bridge lounge and overbridge).

However I've not been to Manchester much since Covid, has the approach changed?

 

[Hadders]

Kings Cross has separate gatelines for 0-8, 9-11, but you used to be able to walk to the very end of 8 and get onto 9 if you briefly ignored the ‘passengers must not past this point signs’, not sure if this is still the case. There are a number of 2 and 4 platform stations that have more than one gateline. Winchester was like that when I last visited 35+ years ago. More recently Earlsfield IIRC is another as is Durham – ridiculous arrangement there for getting between the 2 platforms.

You can still do that at Kings Cross, and you no longer pass a sign saying you can't do it. There's also a passageway between platforms 8 and 9 you can use.

 

[Kite159]

Kings Cross has separate gatelines for 0-8, 9-11, but you used to be able to walk to the very end of 8 and get onto 9 if you briefly ignored the ‘passengers must not past this point signs’, not sure if this is still the case. There are a number of 2 and 4 platform stations that have more than one gateline. Winchester was like that when I last visited 35+ years ago. More recently Earlsfield IIRC is another as is Durham – ridiculous arrangement there for getting between the 2 platforms.

Durham gateline got removed a couple years ago. Still a long walk between platforms but hardly anybody will be changing there (other than Chester Le Street related)

Pontypridd has separate gatelines and it's a station where passengers could be expected to interchange at (train from Treherbert for train towards Aberdare/Merthyr or vice versa).

 

[urbophile]

More recently Earlsfield IIRC is another as is Durham – ridiculous arrangement there for getting between the 2 platforms.

There were no barriers at Earlsfield when I last used it many years ago. But why should anyone need to get from one platform to another?

 

[D6975]

There were no barriers at Earlsfield when I last used it many years ago. But why should anyone need to get from one platform to another?

I was there last year and there were barriers in use, and as for who would want to, I did - several times.

 

[matt_world2004]

There were no barriers at Earlsfield when I last used it many years ago. But why should anyone need to get from one platform to another?

To use the toilet on the platform?

Picc is unusual in that the franchise agreements of two TOCs mandated them to gate their own platforms, rather than gate the whole thing. Is any other station than Euston like that?

It really needs one gateline operated by one TOC.

Doesn't Southwark /Waterloo east have separate gatelines too. You can get stuck between two gatelines with no where to go and if you have a paper Waterloo east ticket you have to buy a platform ticket to walk through the Southwark gatelines

 

[Trackman]

You generally can. There aren't always staff checking tickets at the entrance from the multi-storey car park on platform 1. The lift from Fairfield Street is also usually not covered, although it's currently being replaced.

I've not been for years, is this the lift were they had no parts for and had to be replaced?
P1 exit- one morning they had a sting there, lots of BTP too. I suppose it would be difficult to barrier/ shut off because of the catering trucks if they still come from there.

 

[plugwash]

I wasn't even aware that the "platform 1 exit" was a public exit, I always assumed it was just for the catering vehicles. I can't see any other reasonable way that catering vehicles (and luggage/mobility assistance vehicles) could access the station.

There is already a vehicle gate between the barried and unbarried platforms, operated by some kind of fob the drivers of the vehicles in question carry (can't remember if it's RFID or contact). I don't see any fundamental reason why the platform 1 exit couldn't be closed off to the public with a similar gate.

The loophole lift in question is the one that links Fairfield St, platform 12 and the link bridge lounge. I presume it's primary purpose is to provide a shorter quieter route for wheelchair users from platforms 13/14 to/from the taxi rank.

No idea about replacement, Last time I used it it seemed to be lined with tempoary plywood for some reason (possiblly to protect it from damage when it was used to move works supplies or something).

When I've been in that part of the station in recent years, there was a tensorbarrier blocking access between platforms 11 and 12 at the concourse end, and no ticket checkers checking the entrance from the concourse to platform 12 (this ironicaly meant that the door labeled "11 and 12" couldn't be used to access platform 11 (unless you ducked under the tensorbarrier or went the long way round via the link bridge lounge and overbridge).

However I've not been to Manchester much since Covid, has the approach changed?

Ok, I was back at Piccadilly today and the arragement has indeed changed since I was last there, the tensorbarrier was gone, and the "11" and "12" doors had ticket checking staff standing at them.

On my way home, I also spotted a person in northern Uniform standing in Fairfield street outside the "loophole lift". Dunno if he was there to check tickets or just having a smoke break though.

 

[Starmill]

Why would you inconvenience people making them walk further? We should be promoting public transport by adding more entrances to stations, making it more pleasant and easier for people to access, not closing them!

As noted above by myself and others if there's a desire for this entrance to have revenue protection then this can be done and often is.