Why aren't West Midlands Trains (aka London Northwestern Railway) running ANY services on Sunday 4th February 2024?

[All Line Rover]

According to West Midlands Trains' website:

"ASLEF, the trade union representing train drivers, has announced strike action on Saturday 3rd February, and an overtime ban between Monday 29th January and Tuesday 6th February.

As a result, there will be no West Midlands Railway / London Northwestern Railway services on Saturday 3rd February or Sunday 4th February."

The lack of services on Sunday doesn't make sense. How can an "overtime" ban result in a complete withdrawal of services?

Avanti, who are equally affected by the Saturday strike, appear to be running a full timetable on Sunday.

What is West Midlands Trains' justification for this behaviour?

 

[Sleepy]

Great Northern routes have announced similar "No services at all will run on Sunday 4th to Peterborough/Cambridge /Kings Lynn" ?!?

 

[All Line Rover]

Is Great Northern owned by the same parent company?

The strike action summary page on the National Rail website mentions Great Northern's withdrawal of services on Sunday, but not West Midlands Trains'.

 

[BAFRA77]

Looks like Cross Country have binned off en-masse the entire morning service on Saturday from Worcestershire Parkway to Birmingham at very very short notice as well.

 

[185]

What is West Midlands Trains' justification for this behaviour?

Sundays are in addition to the working week of 35-37 hours, Mon-Sat. If drivers want to work over their 35-37 hours, they would be in breach of the industrial action.

The argument repeated many times before - decades ago it was the railway management and government who kept Sunday outside the working week. It's far, far cheaper to rely on overtime for Sunday than to integrate it which requires hiring an extra 19% staff - an exercise currently being undertaken in Wales who have discovered the cost of doing this is horrific.

One would assume Sunday is inside Avanti's working week.

 

[PupCuff]

Rightly or wrongly, if you know none of your Drivers are going to come in for their Sundays because of the industrial action then you're not going to be able to run a train service in any form, so you might as well be honest with the customers that that is the case and not promise something you know you won't be able to deliver.

Companies can't magic up train drivers to come in if they refuse to do so and the trains won't leave the depot in the morning without them.

 

[All Line Rover]

Sundays are in addition to the working week of 35-37 hours, Mon-Sat. If drivers want to work over their 35-37 hours, they would be in breach of the industrial action.

The argument repeated many times before - decades ago it was the railway management and government who kept Sunday outside the working week. It's far, far cheaper to rely on overtime for Sunday than to integrate it which requires hiring an extra 19% staff - an exercise currently being undertaken in Wales who have discovered the cost of doing this is horrific.

Interesting. Helpful answer, thanks.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Looks like Cross Country have binned off en-masse the entire morning service on Saturday from Worcestershire Parkway to Birmingham at very very short notice as well.

That’s no surprise. They axe the Western half of the Cardiff Nottingham route at every chance they get.

 

[PG]

Is Great Northern owned by the same parent company?

In short, no.
https://www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk/about-us/company-information

London Northwestern Railway is operated by West Midlands Trains Ltd, part of Transport UK Group Ltd (formerly Abellio).

Transport UK Group Ltd is an international transport group who also operate the Greater Anglia and East Midlands Railway franchises, and the Merseyrail concession in the UK.

 

[BAFRA77]

That’s no surprise. They axe the Western half of the Cardiff Nottingham route at every chance they get.

Was nice of them to do it late at night the day before - after the time I could have made alternative arrangements to get to Birmingham this evening instead.

Looks like it’s now down to First Bus to get me where I need to be tomorrow instead - for a fraction of the cost and a guaranteed seat!

 

[Sleepy]

Rightly or wrongly, if you know none of your Drivers are going to come in for their Sundays because of the industrial action then you're not going to be able to run a train service in any form, so you might as well be honest with the customers that that is the case and not promise something you know you won't be able to deliver.

Companies can't magic up train drivers to come in if they refuse to do so and the trains won't leave the depot in the morning without them.

That's fine if those TOC's don't have "committed Sundays" for drivers but if this is the case why wasn't it announced they won't operate anything much earlier ?

 

[PG]

why wasn't it announced they won't operate anything much earlier ?

Take your pick:

• Forgetfulness
• Incompetence
• Attempt to avoid the evening news bulletins

TBH I've no idea why

 

[sonic2009]

Was nice of them to do it late at night the day before - after the time I could have made alternative arrangements to get to Birmingham this evening instead.

Looks like it’s now down to First Bus to get me where I need to be tomorrow instead - for a fraction of the cost and a guaranteed seat!

I hope you do realise that First Bus won't get you from Worcester all the way to Birmingham anymore.

 

[Lurcheroo]

an exercise currently being undertaken in Wales who have discovered the cost of doing this is horrific.

It is being undertaken in wales. They were well aware of the costs. My depot has seen a 30% increase in drivers.
Why do you say “who have discovered the cost of doing so this is horrific” almost as if TFW regret doing it ? (Apologies if I’m taking too much from that message).

Ultimately TFW want to provide an improved and more reliable Sunday timetable at some point and having Sundays in the working week for train crew is necessary to do it.

 

[BAFRA77]

I hope you do realise that First Bus won't get you from Worcester all the way to Birmingham anymore.

I know as I’ve done the journey before - changing onto the NatEx stuff at Bromsgrove/Longbridge

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Take your pick:

• Forgetfulness
• Incompetence
• Attempt to avoid the evening news bulletins

TBH I've no idea why

Had to wait until Thursday to see if drivers had made themselves available for Sunday working or not.

 

[Sleepy]

So people travelling from Peterborough to London will be buying GN only tickets to use on LNER and saving £20 then ?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Looks like Cross Country have binned off en-masse the entire morning service on Saturday from Worcestershire Parkway to Birmingham at very very short notice as well.

Yes, it’s been said on here before that XC are reliant on WMT to get the 170s out of Tyseley.

 

[dk1]

Any operator that relays on volunteer Sunday working will have little or no drivers this weekend. First time ASOS has included a Sunday.

 

[CyrusWuff]

So people travelling from Peterborough to London will be buying GN only tickets to use on LNER and saving £20 then ?

Not without a fight, I would imagine...unless the ticket was purchased prior to the industrial action being announced (i.e. before 16th January.)

 

[Class 317]

At least they provided some notice. The GWR website still does not mention no North Downs service today.

Their customer service team and social media team are still unaware as well.

I understand the late notice required before overtime is officially not taken up but surely during an overtime ban it's obvious that no drivers will volunteer for overtime from the moment it's called by Aslef.

Information should have been provided by the operators concerned at the same time as the strike day updates at least.

 

[TUC]

Sundays are in addition to the working week of 35-37 hours, Mon-Sat. If drivers want to work over their 35-37 hours, they would be in breach of the industrial action.

The argument repeated many times before - decades ago it was the railway management and government who kept Sunday outside the working week. It's far, far cheaper to rely on overtime for Sunday than to integrate it which requires hiring an extra 19% staff - an exercise currently being undertaken in Wales who have discovered the cost of doing this is horrific.

One would assume Sunday is inside Avanti's working week.

Well they could hire staff who want to work part- time flexibly,- which I recognise has its own cost in terms of training, but could be an effective long term solutiin.

 

[dk1]

Well they could hire staff who want to work part- time flexibly,- which I recognise has its own cost in terms of training, but could be an effective long term solutiin.

I very much doubt that would be acceptable at most depots to ASLEF. We only allow part time through job share where the two drivers operate as one and must never be seen together in public

 

[dangie]

Any operator that relays on volunteer Sunday working will have little or no drivers this weekend. First time ASOS has included a Sunday.

Simply put, any industry which provides a 7day a week service should have staff rotas for providing a 7day week service. Volunteering and/or overtime should not be necessary.

 

[dk1]

Simply put, any industry which provides a 7day a week service should have staff rotas for providing a 7day week service. Volunteering and/or overtime should not be necessary.

I concur but then you need to blame those managers that agreed it back in the Central Trains days or before. Once it’s in it’s not going to be given up lightly.

 

[Kite159]

Any operator that relays on volunteer Sunday working will have little or no drivers this weekend. First time ASOS has included a Sunday.

Wasn't the first Sunday in December also an overtime ban day? Although on some TOCs it was a strike day as well.

 

[dk1]

Wasn't the first Sunday in December also an overtime ban day? Although on some TOCs it was a strike day as well.

Oh yes it was. My bad. I was booked Sunday on 3rd December so didn’t notice.

I wonder what happened with WMR on that date.

 

[43066]

Well they could hire staff who want to work part- time flexibly,- which I recognise has its own cost in terms of training, but could be an effective long term solutiin.

Well over a hundred grand, and a year, to train up a driver, who will then only work part time? Fairly unlikely anyone would want to pay for that.

And railstaff are already about the most flexible of any workforce; there’s literally not an hour of the day or night I haven’t been at work at some point.

Simply put, any industry which provides a 7day a week service should have staff rotas for providing a 7day week service. Volunteering and/or overtime should not be necessary.

Yet virtually every industry that provides a seven day a week service relies heavily on overtime.

 

[dk1]

Oh just seen. All services were cancelled at WMR on 03/12/2023 too.

 

[OneOfThe48]

That's fine if those TOC's don't have "committed Sundays" for drivers but if this is the case why wasn't it announced they won't operate anything much earlier ?

Committed Sundays are only of limited help as in many cases the drivers can choose what sundays to commit to.

Turns out many are choosing not to commit to this Sunday, including those who had already committed to it but have withdrawn following the overtime ban.