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Why can TOC's have Secret Rules?

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Chris999999

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I recently started a thread:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=132918

in which I asked about the rules for rail replacement buses. I also contacted
Settle Carlisle Railways about this question of travelling from Penrith to Appleby. They replied:

"Coaches to Penrith are for travel south from Penrith on West Coast Mainline or north beyond Carlisle to stations in Scotland. So you are correct to say that no, you won't be able to do that.

It is all very complicated, sadly. The best option will be to contact Northern (the train operator who organises the replacement bus service) direct to ask their advice."

Reading other posts it seems Northern Rail are taking 2 months to reply to emails. So as I am travelling at the beginning of September, I have no hope of finding out what are the rules and which ticket I should buy.

Why are there these secret rules, and does anyone know what they are? Why can any rail company get away with this type of secrecy?
 
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hairyhandedfool

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Is there any reason you can't phone the "Customer Experience Centre" rather than sending an email?
 
AlterEgo

AlterEgo

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The TOCs have rules (which aren't secret, you can see them in operation on the journey planners) in order to manage capacity. It may seem perverse from your perspective, and I don't know all the machinations behind the rule you describe.

However one would think it would be pretty easy to just call them on the phone.
 
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Chris999999

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hairyhandedfool said:
Is there any reason you can't phone the "Customer Experience Centre" rather than sending an email?
Click to expand...

As someone who is not a regular traveller on Northern Rail I have never heard of the "Customer Experience Centre". Sounds quite interesting!
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AlterEgo said:
The TOCs have rules (which aren't secret, you can see them in operation on the journey planners) in order to manage capacity. It may seem perverse from your perspective, and I don't know all the machinations behind the rule you describe.

However one would think it would be pretty easy to just call them on the phone.
Click to expand...

From my multiple attempts I have been unable to get any Journey Planner to give me the details on this journey. I would be surprised if anyone can, but I would be delighted if you, or anyone else can provide detailed assistance.

I have previously been advised to contact the the "Customer Experience Centre" which I will be investigating this week.
 
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lyndhurst25

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Ringing Customer Services will give you an answer. It may even be the correct answer. But, unlike an email that you can print out, you'll have nothing in writing to help you if staff disagree with what you are doing on the day you travel. Is it really too much to expect train companies to answer customers' enquiry emails in a timely manner?
 
richw

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Is your request short enough to tweet. Normally around an hour for a reply and screenshots etc possible
 
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Chris999999

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richw said:
Is your request short enough to tweet. Normally around an hour for a reply and screenshots etc possible
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I'm sorry but tweeting is not something I have yet undertaken.

My question however is simple: What ticket would I need to enable me to travel on the rail replacement bus from Penrith to Appleby? (- I would be grateful if anyone could provide me with a description of the rules and I would like to see a planner showing this journey.)

Specifically I am interested in the Monday to Friday bus which leaves Penrith at 11:26 and arrives at Appleby at 11:56.
 
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Chris999999

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Yes I started that thread, so I am well aware of it. I got no answer which explained how I could travel on the Penrith to Appleby rail replacement bus.

So say I travel from Windermere to Ribblehead. Windermere is South of Penrith which seems to be a requirement to use this bus. Why don't the planners show use of the bus? In fact it doesn't seem to matter where you start North of Carlisle or South of Penrith, on which train you end up arriving at Penrith, you will never be given a route which uses this bus.

Does this bus travel back and forth between Penrith and Appleby many times a day, completely empty?
 
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swt_passenger

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crehld said:
I'm guessing the Settle-Carlisle Development Company
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A very professional looking website, but they don't run the line or trains. I hope people aren't getting confused by it, when they should be going straight to Northern.
 
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6Gman

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swt_passenger said:
A very professional looking website, but they don't run the line or trains. I hope people aren't getting confused by it, when they should be going straight to Northern.
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Just what I thought!

The OP should ring Northern and ask.

If they say Yes, great.

If they say No, tough.

But I don't see what "secret rules" are involved.
 
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OwlMan

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Chris999999 said:
I'm sorry but tweeting is not something I have yet undertaken.

My question however is simple: What ticket would I need to enable me to travel on the rail replacement bus from Penrith to Appleby? (- I would be grateful if anyone could provide me with a description of the rules and I would like to see a planner showing this journey.)

Specifically I am interested in the Monday to Friday bus which leaves Penrith at 11:26 and arrives at Appleby at 11:56.
Click to expand...

There isn't a bus at that time; do you mean leaving at 1156?
 
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hairyhandedfool

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Chris999999 said:
As someone who is not a regular traveller on Northern Rail I have never heard of the "Customer Experience Centre". Sounds quite interesting!....
Click to expand...

It isn't that interesting, until April it was known as Customer Relations, since April it has been outsourced for Carillion to run. It's the same place your email would go to.
 
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talltim

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Chris999999 said:
As someone who is not a regular traveller on Northern Rail I have never heard of the "Customer Experience Centre". Sounds quite interesting!
Click to expand...
I can see it from my desk, if I spin my chair round. It doesn't look very interesting...
 

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Bletchleyite

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It seems a very silly rule to me. Why make passengers travel out of their way, taking three times as long, with an additional change? It's typical railway "you will go the way you are told, not the way you want to", and I'm getting increasingly fed up of it. Let the passenger do what they wish, and charge them an appropriate (not penalty-level) fare for doing so. It really isn't hard.

Meanwhile, the passenger might find a ticket to Oxenholme complies with the letter of this utterly preposterous rule.

Interestingly, the journey planners show the £91 North Country Rover as the appropriate ticket!
 
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kieron

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Chris999999 said:
Yes I started that thread, so I am well aware of it.
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That was the point. My understanding is that you asked a couple of reasonable questions related to buses between Penrith and Appleby. I responded to you based on publicly available information. You didn't respond to this.

Now you start a thread in which you suggest that Northern have done something wrong. What would you like Northern to have done differently? And what do you hope to gain from the thread?
 
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