Why do “both ways” stops exist?

[Busaholic]

I'm not sure us Soft Southerners have ever experienced such stops formally marked. I can't recollect ever having seen one.

 

[LUYMun]

There are some spots of "both way" stops in the South, if you look hard enough. One I know for certain is on Heathcote Road in Camberley, served by a number of Stagecoach bus routes. A rare version of the Surrey bus stop flag featuring the "buses also stop opposite" message, which I'm still befuddled as to why it still has it - the only theory I have is the fact it's the penultimate stop before the major terminating point at Pembroke Broadway.

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[randyrippley]

Think yourselves lucky you've at least got a sign on one side of the road......
When I were a lad living in South Somerset, NONE of the rural stops were signposted. No road markings. Very few shelters.
Knowledge of where buses stopped was an arcane mystery, handed down from parent to child. No visual clues at all.
Last time I was there was around ten years ago and nothing seemed to have improved

 

[Ken H]

Think yourselves lucky you've at least got a sign on one side of the road......
When I were a lad living in South Somerset, NONE of the rural stops were signposted. No road markings. Very few shelters.
Knowledge of where buses stopped was an arcane mystery, handed down from parent to child. No visual clues at all.
Last time I was there was around ten years ago and nothing seemed to have improved

The 36 Leeds - Ripon had few stops out of town when I was a nipper in the 60's/70's. It just stopped at lane ends where people asked to get off, or where people flagged it down. Bus stop flags in the country are quite a recent thing. Certainly no timetable cases, just a flag saying 'BUS STOP', with maybe the company name if you were lucky

 

[randyrippley]

Bus stop flags in the country are quite a recent thing. Certainly no timetable cases, just a flag saying 'BUS STOP', with maybe the company name if you were lucky

presumably it falls into a responsibility void between bus company, county council, and traffic commissioners with no-one willing to foot the bill

 

[Ken H]

presumably it falls into a responsibility void between bus company, county council, and traffic commissioners with no-one willing to foot the bill

I think it was considered the bus companies responsibility to put up bus stops until the councils got involved big time. Even in Leeds centre there were West Yorkshire road Car cast iron flags. There were some examples of Leeds City Transport having dual operator flags but they were rare. More common were 2 flags on 1 post.

 

[northwichcat]

For those unfamiliar, “both ways” stops will usually have the flag, road markings and timetable on one side of the road and nothing on the other side, despite buses still stopping there both ways. Usually it’s indicated on the flag and timetable that buses do stop on the other side of the road.

I believe this practice is normally used to cut costs in seldom-used areas, but they are also used on busy frequent routes like the route I travel on. I’m curious as to why? Is there any red tape or huge cost to painting it on the road and adding a flag/timetable? I ask this as it’s fairly common that these stops are missed or passengers overcarried

To create more confusion in some areas you have clockwise and anti-clockwise circular routes, to create 'both directions' bus stops. So if you're near the middle of the route it might be the 10 service towards the town centre departs from one side of the road at 10am and the 11 service towards the town centre departs from the other side of the road at 10:30am.

The 36 Leeds - Ripon had few stops out of town when I was a nipper in the 60's/70's. It just stopped at lane ends where people asked to get off, or where people flagged it down. Bus stop flags in the country are quite a recent thing. Certainly no timetable cases, just a flag saying 'BUS STOP', with maybe the company name if you were lucky

I wasn't around in the 60s or 70s. But in the 90s I do recall how in Cheshire we had yellow and black "Cheshire Bus" branded bus stops, when other areas had bus stops with operator branding like Midland Red.

There's some faded examples of the "Cheshire Bus" bus stops on Brook Lane, Alderley Edge. It's not been on a bus route for a long time but the bus stops have never been removed. https://www.google.com/maps/@53.310...PyygyEBj1np9NnpQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

 

[AndrewE]

Bus stop flags in the country are quite a recent thing. Certainly no timetable cases, just a flag saying 'BUS STOP', with maybe the company name if you were lucky

presumably it falls into a responsibility void between bus company, county council, and traffic commissioners with no-one willing to foot the bill

I thought that one of Thatcher's deregulation actions was that buses no longer had to stop at pre-arranged locations, but could take up and set down wherever it suited the customers. Abolishing pointless bureacracy etc...

 

[randyrippley]

I thought that one of Thatcher's deregulation actions was that buses no longer had to stop at pre-arranged locations, but could take up and set down wherever it suited the customers. Abolishing pointless bureacracy etc...

this predated Thatcher. There had quite simply never been signs there

 

[PaulWC]

I wasn't around in the 60s or 70s. But in the 90s I do recall how in Cheshire we had yellow and black "Cheshire Bus" branded bus stops, when other areas had bus stops with operator branding like Midland Red.

There's some faded examples of the "Cheshire Bus" bus stops on Brook Lane, Alderley Edge. It's not been on a bus route for a long time but the bus stops have never been removed. https://www.google.com/maps/@53.310...PyygyEBj1np9NnpQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Most of the signs in Cheshire were Crosville's and in 1986 the county council simply added a Cheshire Bus vinyl on to them, usually over the 'Bus Stop' wording. By the 90s, Crosville was gone from most of the county and the council replaced all the signs with their own, the one pictured in Alderley Edge being one of them.

I know there was a stop right across from my old house in Crewe that had 'Both Directions' on it. In fact, I seem to recall they were quite commonplace around the housing estates where stops were directly across the road from each other.

Somewhat off topic, and I've not been down that way for a while, but I think this stop sign is still on Gainsborough Road in Crewe-

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[LottieLongLegs]

What frustrates me most with these is the likelihood of the driver going past your stop when you want to get off, where they haven’t realised it’s a “both ways” stop. This issue exists both where I live and where I go to work, and has happened many times.

 

[ricoblade]

Yes to all of this, however 'occasionally' adjacent property owners objecting is more often than you might think!

They are rife here in North Notts, both in rural and town locations. In one of the local villages, I crossed the road opposite one to stop the bus and the driver said "I shouldn't stop here as the people in the house don't like the bus stopping here"!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I thought that one of Thatcher's deregulation actions was that buses no longer had to stop at pre-arranged locations, but could take up and set down wherever it suited the customers. Abolishing pointless bureacracy etc...

this predated Thatcher. There had quite simply never been signs there

Sorry for the slightly o/t post, but in West Yorkshire the idea of "hail & ride" routes in non-rural areas only came in after deregulation. In particular with Yorkshire Rider launching their "Micro-Rider" minibus brand.

 

[GusB]

Let's keep the discussion to "both-ways" bus stops, please.

 

[W-on-Sea]

It's quite interesting to switch through the various Google Streetview iterations of this bus stop

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2008 - flimsy Stagecoach flag that does mention (not very noticeably) that buses stop opposite, too
2011 - very good Oxfordshire County Council flag, with yellow to highlight that buses stop opposite, too
April 2021 - reworked Oxfordshire County Council flag, that still mentions that buses stop opposite, but much less visibly
The Sept 2021 and April 2023 captures show the flagpost getting surrounded by bushes, so barely visible in either direction

Clearly a lot is left to the memory of the bus driver

I'm surprised by the comment that such stops have not been seen in the south of England - I'm sure I've encountered them in numerous places in most of the counties surrounding London

 

[WM Bus]

One of these at the Westmere Universisty Conference Centre stop on the X21/X22 going to Bartley Green. Normally people wait for it on the driveway for the university building at that stop.
In place at that location because there's nowhere to put a physical bus stop.

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[SCH117X]

The 36 Leeds - Ripon had few stops out of town when I was a nipper in the 60's/70's. It just stopped at lane ends where people asked to get off, or where people flagged it down. Bus stop flags in the country are quite a recent thing. Certainly no timetable cases, just a flag saying 'BUS STOP', with maybe the company name if you were lucky

Theres one stop on the route today flagged on the Leeds side while the other side of the road does have a pavement but no sign. https://www.google.com/maps/@53.867...xMAt0eauHCTcxyHQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Going by historic streetscene pictures it appeared c 2013

 

[padbus]

My local city to suburb route in Exeter has two "both ways" bus stops. Both are are on ordinary suburban roads with pavements on both sides and both have no properties fronting to road on the side that is unmarked. Of course there are no road markings and neither are there raised kerbs so wheelchair users can only make a journey in one direction.

 

[Dai Corner]

My local city to suburb route in Exeter has two "both ways" bus stops. Both are are on ordinary suburban roads with pavements on both sides and both have no properties fronting to road on the side that is unmarked. Of course there are no road markings and neither are there raised kerbs so wheelchair users can only make a journey in one direction.

Don't the buses have ramps for wheelchairs?

 

[padbus]

Don't the buses have ramps for wheelchairs?

Yes, I admit I was exaggerating a bit but surely raised kerbs must be there for a reason otherwise why go to the expense of installing them?

 

[GusB]

I think we've established the reasons for the existence of "both-ways" stops and the thread seems to have run its course. Thanks for your contributions