Why do Class 380s have tapered bodysides when other Desiros don't?

[Bletchleyite]

That would be true if:

A) all track didn't have any can't on curves
B) if track has curves (as it does), that every overbridge, tunnel and structure matched the cant, I.e. vertical was perpendicular to the canted track datum, which they certainly aren't. Bear in mind that the sides of trains can't be perfectly vertical as there is more sway at cantrail than at solebar level.​

Don't forget, the profile of rolling stock has to fit into a dynamic (kinematic) envelope where all movement and track tolerances are allowed for.

True, and indeed "slab sided" Desiros actually have a very slight lean in, though you really have to look for it. However the 380, like Bombardier *Star products (but not Aventras), has a very pronounced taper - almost like a tilt profile.

 

[XC90]

I wish more 380s were purchased rather than 385s. I find 385s very noisy when slowing down especially at croy from the Edinburgh direction.
I didnt know TS could buy the 380s for £1, I thought it was just 385s.

 

[AM9]

True, and indeed "slab sided" Desiros actually have a very slight lean in, though you really have to look for it. However the 380, like Bombardier *Star products (but not Aventras), has a very pronounced taper - almost like a tilt profile.

I think that the taper is not really a problem (on non-tilting profiles), and there are hundreds of Turbo and Electrostars carrying passengers around the country who have never even considered how much their coach tapers. The aesthetics are irrelevant to most, especially those not on RUK.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Q: Why do 380s have tapered bodysides?

A: Because if they didn't the roof wouldn't fit!

 

[Loki]

True, and indeed "slab sided" Desiros actually have a very slight lean in, though you really have to look for it. However the 380, like Bombardier *Star products (but not Aventras), has a very pronounced taper - almost like a tilt profile.

I've noticed the same thing. Their Verve train also lacks tapering.

 

[snookertam]

It must have been expensive for Siemens to give the 380s a unique body profile for what was a relatively minor order

Must've been worth their while otherwise they wouldn't have offered the product to Transport Scotland in the first place.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think that the taper is not really a problem (on non-tilting profiles), and there are hundreds of Turbo and Electrostars carrying passengers around the country who have never even considered how much their coach tapers. The aesthetics are irrelevant to most, especially those not on RUK.

I don't see it as a problem though it does mean slightly less shoulder room. I just thought it was noticeable as different from other squarer Desiros and wondered why. I actually quite like the 380s - they have most of the advantages of 700s over other Desiros without most of the downsides.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Must've been worth their while otherwise they wouldn't have offered the product to Transport Scotland in the first place.

How costly it would be depends on how they construct things. Stadler produce near enough whatever shape you like from standard panels, which is why they can do the narrow gauge stuff at a reasonable cost.

 

[Mikey C]

I don't see it as a problem though it does mean slightly less shoulder room. I just thought it was noticeable as different from other squarer Desiros and wondered why. I actually quite like the 380s - they have most of the advantages of 700s over other Desiros without most of the downsides.

The tapered sides are ok for 4 across seating, but not so ideal for 5 across or the modern " narrow 4 across with a wide aisle" configuration

Do the 20m Electrostars and 23m Turbostars have the same body width incidentally, as both taper a bit and I've never seen a 5 across Turbostar?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do the 20m Electrostars and 23m Turbostars have the same body width incidentally, as both taper a bit and I've never seen a 5 across Turbostar?

No, like the 20m vs 23m Desiros the Turbostar is a bit narrower.

 

[Mikey C]

No, like the 20m vs 23m Desiros the Turbostar is a bit narrower.

I thought that might be the case, thanks

The previous generation 165s and 166s were the same width as the Networkers, hence 5 abreast seating is fine(ish) with them but being fat does make their use more restricted I guess

 

[Ethano92]

However the 380, like Bombardier *Star products (but not Aventras), has a very pronounced taper - almost like a tilt profile.

This taper is especially felt on the ledges by the doors on 378s. They're very uncomfortable as the side tapers in so your back is bent forward. Never even really notice the taper at other times.

 

[Mikey C]

This taper is especially felt on the ledges by the doors on 378s. They're very uncomfortable as the side tapers in so your back is bent forward. Never even really notice the taper at other times.

The taper also explains why I have to be careful not to bang my head on the side on 378s! Not a problem on the less tapered 710s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The taper also explains why I have to be careful not to bang my head on the side on 378s! Not a problem on the less tapered 710s.

It's also one reason why a non-window window seat (!) is rubbish on a Pendolino or a Voyager. Obviously it's for reasons of tilt in this case, but is a reason why I can sit comfortably (ish, for an hour at least) in more seats on 80x than I can on either of those.

 

[Mikey C]

It's also one reason why a non-window window seat (!) is rubbish on a Pendolino or a Voyager. Obviously it's for reasons of tilt in this case, but is a reason why I can sit comfortably (ish, for an hour at least) in more seats on 80x than I can on either of those.

And the atrociously small overhead luggage racks on those trains, especially the Voyager.

 

[AM9]

And the atrociously small overhead luggage racks on those trains, especially the Voyager.

But they're not much better on Electrostars and they don't tilt.