Why do Network Rail still use some imperial measurements?

[Annetts key]

Not sure on fishplates but there are still WW threads out there, e.g. on some points.

And some older designs of electrical terminals use 2BA or 0BA threads. Some of which continue to be used in more modern installations.
Modern equipment uses metric threads.

 

[class26]

Bicycle tyre sizes in Germany are in inches...

...and the 100mm drain pipe was originally a 4" drain pipe!

and in music timpani are in inches WOLDWIDE !!!

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Of course everyone knows how many inches in a mile , but few know how many cm's in a km

63,360, from OS one-inch maps, and 100,000. And 5280 feet a mile, or 1760 yards. But what is a 1:70 gradient in 0/00?

Children may learn metric at school, but they learn imperial from their grandparents.

 

[AM9]

And some older designs of electrical terminals use 2BA or 0BA threads. Some of which continue to be used in more modern installations.
Modern equipment uses metric threads.

I remember in my early years at work that thread standardisation was a complete mess. We dealt with BSW, BSP, BA threads on a historical designs basis, then there were international threads such as UNC and UNF that were in themselves an attempt to generalise US Imperial threads which were especially promoted in aviation. Metric threads were also encountered but the culture here was to stick with the hotch potch of 'what we've always done'!
Fortunately, metric is now the established standard, largely driven by far eastern engineering practice. Outliers tend to be in niche areas where practice is driven by national trades such as BSP for plumbing, (and of course you can't get much more niche than timpani)!

 

[dastocks]

I just use this handy online standards converter:

The Reg online standards converter

www.theregister.com

 

[futureA]

Well the USA/NASA managed to get to the moon (allegedly) using nautical miles for distances and feet/sec2 for rocket burns!

Actually all of the navigation and control calculations for the Apollo programme were done in metric. The results were then converted to imperial units which were displayed to the engineers and astronauts.

 

[birchesgreen]

Of course everyone knows how many inches in a mile

no idea

 

[MarkyT]

no idea

1760yds x 3 = 5280ft
5280ft x 12 = 63360in
Simples!

 

[USRailFan]

Because we still use imperial measurements in some areas. Literally everyone* else uses metric.

*Apart from the USA, which as far as I'm aware uses (American) imperial measures almost exclusively. Personally, I can't get my head around using ft-lbs etc for engineering calculations; yet I still use miles when measuring distance (and metres/feet for shorter lengths!)

NASA uses solely metric AFAIK, and in most scientific settings metric is used. The US military also I think solely uses metric.

Well the USA/NASA managed to get to the moon (allegedly) using nautical miles for distances and feet/sec2 for rocket burns!

While NASA didn't officially go purely metric until 1990, they still mostly used metric units during the Apollo program: https://ukma.org.uk/why-metric/myths/metric-internationally/the-moon-landings/

A quarter pounder is a “Royale with cheese”

Norway has been fully metric since 1875 (well, not really, ships were still measured in feet until the 1980s) but it's still called a Quarter Pounder here

 

[Mat17]

The funny thing is, although in primary school I learnt all about metric, particularly cm etc. I actually thought it was something invented for teaching in schools. I didn't know anyone who talked in cm outside of school. Measurements in the 'real world' were all in imperial.

They talked about miles per gallon, pints of beer and milk, my family cooked in pounds and ounces, my height was measured in feet and inches, weight in stones and we bought sweets by the quarter. We also had a coal fire and bought coal by the hundredweight too.

It was a moment of revelation when I was about 10 when I realised cms were actually real measurements.

This was the 1990s. It was the whole shift in banning sales in imperial units (and the imperial martyrs) that brought it to my attention.

Sounds daft now, but when all of your family use imperial, as do your friends and their families who would think anything of it?

 

[Irascible]

Being metric doesn't prevent Scandinavian miles...

Nautical miles are an interesting one - sensible idea as long as you use degrees for position, makes you wonder why it wasn't made the standard unit for a mile at some point. The history is a good read for a tea break if you like that sort of thing.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

In the USA, I get confused when presented with a road sign showing a junction at "1000 feet" or similar.
Despite mainly using what we call Imperial measure, the Americans seem to prefer using feet to yards.
And of course their capacity is different to ours, with 8 fl oz being a US pint instead of our 10 fl oz.
The quart is another odd unit the Americans prefer, being practically unused here.

Europe had many different and local systems of measurement before metric was generally adopted, some like ours based on the Roman mile.
The UK also had its local oddities - Cheshire acres anybody (larger than normal)?

I always wonder how the early giants of railway building, like Thomas Brassey, coped with different measurement systems when they built railways across Europe and beyond.
Either it was all done in Imperial, and the French/Austrian/Italian subcontractors coped, or they had a remarkable ability to cope with all the variations in estimates and quotes for supplies.
Get your conversions wrong and the contract will lose you a lot of money.
Reputedly, Brassey kept all the details in his head!

 

[USRailFan]

Being metric doesn't prevent Scandinavian miles...

Nautical miles are an interesting one - sensible idea as long as you use degrees for position, makes you wonder why it wasn't made the standard unit for a mile at some point. The history is a good read for a tea break if you like that sort of thing.

Scandinavian miles are metric tho, and have been so for ages (One scandinavian mile = 10 km)

 

[mike57]

To answer the OP question the answer is that most of the network was developed before metrication in the UK. The cost of converting existing drawings, signs and everything associated would be massive, and probably wouldnt bring enough benefits to justify the cost.

Realistically I suspect this will be the situation for many years to come, I am not going to say 'forever' but probably way beyond any look ahead in terms of upgrades plans etc.

Metrication has been a long hard slog in the UK, there is so much reliance on imperial measurements in everyday life, and they are part of our culture (for example 'going for a pint', thats never 'going to become going for a 660ml' and pub goers would be upset if the 'pint' was reduced to 'half a litre').

During the 70s which were an inflationary period anyway people assumed, in some cases quite rightly, that metrication and decimalisation was an excuse for price increase by stealth.

I went to the school in the 60's and was taught imperial measurements, although I then learnt metric when I embarked on my engineering career in the 70's. I have to be honest, I still think in imperial, and convert to or from metric in my mind when discussing things, and I in common with most of my generation don't mind doing that. Like it or not we are going to be using both systems for many years to come

 

[alxndr]

And some older designs of electrical terminals use 2BA or 0BA threads. Some of which continue to be used in more modern installations.
Modern equipment uses metric threads.

A little off topic, but on the off chance you might know - have the measurements used for FPL* testing (e.g. 5mm, 3.5mm, 1.5mm) been defined in metric since their introduction or were they once Imperial?

*to define the acronym for those who don't know, Facing Point Lock for points

 

[karlbbb]

Metrication has been a long hard slog in the UK, there is so much reliance on imperial measurements in everyday life, and they are part of our culture (for example 'going for a pint', thats never 'going to become going for a 660ml' and pub goers would be upset if the 'pint' was reduced to 'half a litre').

Unfortunately, stick-in-the-mud excuses like this are the reason we're stuck with a stupid mix of units. We'll just start going to the pub for "a half" (500ml) instead of pint, it doesn't need to be any more complicated than that. Add in the fact that the longer we wait, the more expensive it will be to complete the move due to ever-growing infrastructure, more road signs, etc etc.

There should be a concerted effort across the country as soon as possible to finish our move to completely metric, if indeed our vision of "Global Britain" is to be realised, instead of using archaic and obsolete units that, aside from the US, the rest of the globe have already shunned.

 

[Skymonster]

There should be a concerted effort across the country as soon as possible to finish our move to completely metric, if indeed our vision of "Global Britain" is to be realised, instead of using archaic and obsolete units that, aside from the US, the rest of the globe have already shunned.

You speak for yourself… I rather hoped Brexit would allow us to move back to imperial measures.

 

[Jim Jehosofat]

and in music timpani are in inches WOLDWIDE !!!

Unique to Lincolnshire then!

 

[birchesgreen]

You speak for yourself… I rather hoped Brexit would allow us to move back to imperial measures.

You want to return to pre-decimal currency too?

 

[karlbbb]

You speak for yourself… I rather hoped Brexit would allow us to move back to imperial measures.

Is that a serious comment?

 

[SargeNpton]

And of course their capacity is different to ours, with 8 fl oz being a US pint instead of our 10 fl oz.
The quart is another odd unit the Americans prefer, being practically unused here.

You're being served short measures! It's 16 and 20 fluid ounces respectively.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You're being served short measures! It's 16 and 20 fluid ounces respectively.

So it is!
4/5 of our measure anyway...

 

[mike57]

We'll just start going to the pub for "a half" (500ml) instead of pint, it doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.

I think any government trying to force this (and similar changes) would find themselves on the receiving end of a backlash which would very quickly result in them no longer being in government. Yes I agree metric makes sense, but unless you can convince the majority that its a good idea it won't happen because no government is going to commit political suicide by forcing through a vote looser

 

[Irascible]

Is there any particular reason to change measures in pubs? it's not like engineering where SI just makes life so much easier. All it is in the pub is the size of a glass. Is there something offensive about a pint glass?

 

[swt_passenger]

I think any government trying to force this (and similar changes) would find themselves on the receiving end of a backlash which would very quickly result in them no longer being in government. Yes I agree metric makes sense, but unless you can convince the majority that its a good idea it won't happen because no government is going to commit political suicide by forcing through a vote looser

They could define a special name for a glass with a line at 500ml, and space above it for a head. A “pint” maybe?

 

[miklcct]

As for kilometers, thats a unit I never use and if something is quoted as such I have to use a calculator to work the mileage out otherwise my brain just can't compute it, it just means nothing to me.

As I grew up and educated in a modern ex-Commonwealth country, I have no idea what a mile is and need to use a calculator to work it out, as I can only process in kilometres.

Nautical miles are an interesting one - sensible idea as long as you use degrees for position, makes you wonder why it wasn't made the standard unit for a mile at some point.

I also have the same question why the initial designer of metric system didn't just adopt nautical miles as the standard length unit, as it is also based on the circumstance of the Earth as in the initial definition of metres. A rumour is that they wanted to replace degrees by grads as well.

 

[Western Lord]

I think any government trying to force this (and similar changes) would find themselves on the receiving end of a backlash which would very quickly result in them no longer being in government. Yes I agree metric makes sense, but unless you can convince the majority that its a good idea it won't happen because no government is going to commit political suicide by forcing through a vote looser

I can't see England ever going fully metric but I suppose Sturgeon would make Scotland fully metric in order to emphasise their independence (she'll probably switch to driving on the right as well).
The problem is that many people see the metric system as a foreign invention and it is the same as asking people to speak French or German. There are many instances where imperial measurements are more user friendly and there is no metric equivalent for the good old foot. Back in the thirties there was a lot of publicity about the first thousand foot liners, (The French Normandie and our own Queen Mary). there would be a less significance in the first 304.8 metre liners. In the railway and road transport worlds a speed on 100 miles per hour was seen as a benchmark, and on the continent railways adopted our benchmark and aspired to run at 160 km/hr which is the nearest metric equivalent to 100 mph, why not a round number like 150 km/hr?
I am dubious about people who claim that they were taught metric at school and don't understand imperial. Before going to school children would be exposed to imperial measures at home, and still would be out of school. There can't be many people who don't know how tall a six footer is or that somebody weighing twenty stone is probably obese.

 

[RH Liner]

I wish they'd just stick to feet and inches. I'd know what they're talking about then.

That’s because you’re probably as old as I am

 

[matacaster]

People tend to use what suits. A foot is a very well known unit of length that people can easily grasp the length of, 33cm is less so in my opinion. Metre and yard are pretty close in length. It's common for joiners to go into a woodyard and ask for 5 metres lengths of 3" by 2".

Utter stupidity is pricing petrol in litres, when everyone judges fuel consumption in MPG. Petrol should obviously be sold in gallons. The reasons it's sold in litres is that the government of the time thought the price in gallons was frightening the public and they would be less concerned if it was in litres as the price would not appear to be as bad (it was just perception).

 

[Sm5]

I find it fascinating the US extensively uses BTUs in cooling.

“British Thermal Units“ havent been used in Britain for decades.