Why do some passengers not get how annoying it is to play music and videos out loud?

[LNERCommunity]

Another early morning train, another passenger (an adult, not a teenager doing it for annoyance) playing multiple music tracks and streaming videos out loud instead of using ear buds. It really should be obvious how annoying it is to others, and just about everyone with a phone also has ear buds or head phones. Just what is it that they fail to understand?

I'd suggest moving to the quiet coach if that specific train your travelling on has one.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Was on a bus earlier which was sitting at a stop for a couple of minutes, then I heard someone dialling out on a phone, followed by what sounded like a call centre with “thanks for waiting, we’ll be with you shortly”, etc, and some classical music, all on the speaker. After a few more minutes I was on the point of calling out to ask them to take it off the speaker when someone answered. I then realised it was the driver phoning control to report the road being blocked and asking what was the best diversion route to take…..

Lol

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I'd suggest moving to the quiet coach if that specific train your travelling on has one.

Just had an idea… why don’t we suggest operators introduce a NOISY coach, where people can use speakerphones and play videos to their heart’s content?
These moronic people might then understand the irritation they cause!

 

[londonbridge]

As an afterthought to my earlier post I’m now wondering why he was phoning them rather than having a two way radio. I believe TFL use radio communication but my incident was on a Go North East bus. Do most operators not use radio to communicate with drivers for terminating early, etc?

 

[LNERCommunity]

Lol

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Just had an idea… why don’t we suggest operators introduce a NOISY coach, where people can use speakerphones and play videos to their heart’s content?
These moronic people might then understand the irritation they cause!

Not sure that would ever happen, would probably see a decrease in people travelling by train.

 

[Lewisham2221]

As an afterthought to my earlier post I’m now wondering why he was phoning them rather than having a two way radio. I believe TFL use radio communication but my incident was on a Go North East bus. Do most operators not use radio to communicate with drivers for terminating early, etc?

Nope. Some do, but by no means all or even most.

 

[deerokus]

The other day I was having breakfast in McDonald's - a bad enough way to start the day, and some guy was watching annoying tiktoks at top volume in his phone. In Chinese, to make it worse.

I got to the end of my tether and had to ask him to turn it down, which he did. We need more people to do that to these idiots.

 

[Andy Pacer]

I'd suggest moving to the quiet coach if that specific train your travelling on has one.

To be fair these coaches annoy me even more as people generally don't follow the guidance.

 

[modernrail]

It’s beyond me why the train and bus companies don’t run a campaign telling not to use their devices on speaker mode. Use headphones or turn the sound off. It’s a simple message and they all did it together a social norm would be established.

Whilst it isn’t, the achingly unaware will just carry on doing it. Some of them are probably perfectly nice people but just blissfully unaware. I don’t get how they can be, but they are.

I asked a guy to turn his volume off or wear headphones last week. He was really apologetic. It’s mind blowing but it is something to do with people’s weird rabbit hole behaviour with devices.

 

[TUC]

I'd suggest moving to the quiet coach if that specific train your travelling on has one.

Why? I don't want to be silent through the whole journey. My wife and others will call at some point, but there's a big difference between that and video/music being played out, or indeed having the other side of phone conversations on a speaker.

 

[Polarbear]

I’m currently on a TPE service between Manchester & Liverpool. Multiple people using mobile devices without earbuds/headphones. No sign of any staff so no enforcement.

I use rail in the UK less & less these days, and it’s journeys like this that remind me why I’ve chosen to give up on a travel mode I used to enjoy!

Until public transport operators start addressing this, and other anti-social behaviours (vaping being another big problem), I’ll use my car more & more often.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’m currently on a TPE service between Manchester & Liverpool. Multiple people using mobile devices without earbuds/headphones. No sign of any staff so no enforcement.

Yesterday evening I saw a pair of Carlisle uniformed staff (Avanti cleaners I think) doing it on a WMT service.

It really does need some heavy enforcement. If I was managing staff and I heard of it being done by them in uniform, I'd be going to a formal disciplinary. After all, it's breaking the law, and I would expect any company to come down hard on any staff who were overtly breaking any law while in uniform, not least one that would annoy my paying customers. They'd probably get sacked if they were vaping on the train, for example, and I personally find music pollution to be far more annoying than if someone was vaping at the other end of the coach.

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Until public transport operators start addressing this, and other anti-social behaviours (vaping being another big problem), I’ll use my car more & more often.

Completely agree. Minor ASB leads to major ASB - this is one of the reasons Merseyrail prosecute* people for feet on seats. The only answer is that even minor ASB (this, feet on seats, littering, loutish behaviour etc) should not be tolerated on trains.

* Though I believe they have said openly that they'd rather have a mechanism to impose fixed penalties instead, kind of a Penalty Fare without the fare component, but despite "prices" for certain types of ASB being displayed on railway signage, e.g. £50 for pulling the cord, that doesn't exist, so prosecution/settlements to avoid it are their only enforcement mechanism.

 

[physics34]

Give people and inch they take a mile. Discipline is needed in adulthood for many.
Any ASB has to be tackled. More staff on trains the only answer.

 

[Krokodil]

Unfortunately when staff try to enforce the rules they just get abuse. I asked someone to remove his feet from the seats and turn the sound off the other day. Rather than apologise and do as he was told he decided to argue. Ended up getting BTP to remove him.

I hear similar tales of entitled behaviour and abuse towards staff from people working in retail and hospitality. Society is breaking apart.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unfortunately when staff try to enforce the rules they just get abuse. I asked someone to remove his feet from the seats and turn the sound off the other day. Rather than apologise and do as he was told he decided to argue. Ended up getting BTP to remove him.

Good on you. Unfortunately (and understandably) many staff can't be bothered with the effort.

I hear similar tales of entitled behaviour and abuse towards staff from people working in retail and hospitality. Society is breaking apart.

Agree, and I see one of the main causes is that policing on the ground is near enough entirely absent and so all manner of poor behaviour and low level crime is tolerated. For instance, petty theft is now tolerated, when it should really mean at least a night in the cells. I do like hearing of litter wardens getting people for dropping cigarette butts, though, indeed I'd love to see some on-train litter wardening going on - put it in the bin!

 

[Krokodil]

Completely agree. Minor ASB leads to major ASB - this is one of the reasons Merseyrail prosecute* people for feet on seats. The only answer is that even minor ASB (this, feet on seats, littering, loutish behaviour etc) should not be tolerated on trains.

* Though I believe they have said openly that they'd rather have a mechanism to impose fixed penalties instead, kind of a Penalty Fare without the fare component, but despite "prices" for certain types of ASB being displayed on railway signage, e.g. £50 for pulling the cord, that doesn't exist, so prosecution/settlements to avoid it are their only enforcement mechanism.

Don't Merseyrail tend to charge £50 for people they catch, and only go to court if they don't pay?

I do agree though, Penalty Fares should be extended to encompass low-level ASB. I find myself telling multiple people per train to remove their feet from the seats. Sometimes going as far as to suggest that they get off and walk, if they persist.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don't Merseyrail tend to charge £50 for people they catch, and only go to court if they don't pay?

Yes, they do it by way of the out of court settlement process. What they said they wanted was the ability to issue non-criminal fixed penalty notices along the lines of a Penalty Fare instead, just to make the process simpler.

However aside from the process aspect their approach does seem to work fairly well in dissuading minor ASB, and we all know minor ASB creates the conditions for major ASB.

 

[physics34]

Unfortunately when staff try to enforce the rules they just get abuse. I asked someone to remove his feet from the seats and turn the sound off the other day. Rather than apologise and do as he was told he decided to argue. Ended up getting BTP to remove him.

I hear similar tales of entitled behaviour and abuse towards staff from people working in retail and hospitality. Society is breaking apart.

If staff start going sick because of abuse train companies will probably start doing something about it. I'm not saying on train staff should do any unofficial enmass industrial action, but......!

 

[Cambus731]

Let’s not kid ourselves. The majority do it to antagonise others. I wonder if it is related to the basic urge in primates to establish themselves as the alpha in any given territory, no matter how small or temporary.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Let’s not kid ourselves. The majority do it to antagonise others. I wonder if it is related to the basic urge in primates to establish themselves as the alpha in any given territory, no matter how small or temporary.

I genuinely don't think they do. It's just a complete lack of awareness that it affects others, and a complete lack of caring that it does.

Some (particularly groups of teenage lads) might do it to antagonise, but it's a bit silly to suggest that say a 5 year old watching Peppa Pig on their mum's phone is deliberately intending to wind up other passengers - it's just inconsiderate on the part of the parent, that's all.

 

[Krokodil]

Good on you. Unfortunately (and understandably) many staff can't be bothered with the effort.

It feels like fighting a losing battle. What does help is when passengers thank you for doing so. Even if not in front of the offender (would be great if someone did stand up when the offender goes "no one minds"), I've had a few approach me on the platform afterwards and thank me, it is appreciated.

indeed I'd love to see some on-train litter wardening going on - put it in the bin!

I've a little more sympathy for the passenger here. I was chatting to someone who was doing some research for the DfT on litter and I said "what do they expect if no one can find the bin?".

When I visited the mock-up 197 (having already had a play with the real thing) the Welsh Government reps asked me about my thoughts. I invited them to pretend that they had their empty fish and chip wrappers in hand and find a bin to put it in. It took a while, most people would give up.

I remember taking a unit one morning that had spent the night in a platform at Crewe due to a lack of depot space, and therefore hadn't seen a cleaner. In one corner was a neatly stacked little pile of rubbish. Someone had clearly done their best to look for a bin, given up, and done their best to tidy up their rubbish without one.

I used to notice passengers on 175s looking for bins in vestibules (because that is where you'd expect some to be). The ones within the saloon just weren't obvious unless you looked hard. When I go to Switzerland and ride on the RhB's Allegras, I'm shown how multiple units should be designed. With a bin incorporated in every table.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've a little more sympathy for the passenger here. I was chatting to someone who was doing some research for the DfT on litter and I said "what do they expect if no one can find the bin?".

That is itself an example of societal degeneration, though. What I was taught was if you can't find a bin you take it with you until you do find one, putting it in the bin at home if you don't find one along the way.

I do think on-train bins need to be bigger and better located, though. While littering isn't acceptable under any circumstances, it does at least reduce the problem.

Interesting you mention fish and chips, though - once upon a time, eating hot* food on trains was considered ASB, now it seems to be the norm.

* I recall oddly worded posters on Merseyrail in my youth saying "please don't eat cooked food on trains".

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I used to notice passengers on 175s looking for bins in vestibules (because that is where you'd expect some to be). The ones within the saloon just weren't obvious unless you looked hard. When I go to Switzerland and ride on the RhB's Allegras, I'm shown how multiple units should be designed. With a bin incorporated in every table.

I'm less of a fan of that, though, partly because those bins are uselessly small (won't fit for instance a 500ml drink bottle or beer can, which is probably one of the most common forms of on train litter), and partly because they get in the way of the window seat passenger's knee room. A couple in the saloon between seat backs and a large one in each vestibule is probably the best way.

 

[Krokodil]

those bins are uselessly small (won't fit for instance a 500ml drink bottle or beer can

I could say the same about the bins on a 197!

 

[Cambus731]

I genuinely don't think they do. It's just a complete lack of awareness that it affects others, and a complete lack of caring that it does.

Some (particularly groups of teenage lads) might do it to antagonise, but it's a bit silly to suggest that say a 5 year old watching Peppa Pig on their mum's phone is deliberately intending to wind up other passengers - it's just inconsiderate on the part of the parent, that's all.

when it comes to ‘music’ I believe it is. And it’s not just teenage lads. Girls do it as well.
I was on a bus on the Isle of Wight earlier this year, which got held up due to an altercation with a woman of about 30 playing music unnecessarily loudly. unusually for this sort of behaviour it wasn’t rap or hip hop. Think it may have been UB40.. Although in her case I did wonder if she may have needed psychiatric help. I don’t mean that in a nasty way.
I was on a bus coming into Whitby the other day and some loud hip hop was emanating from the bus. I was tempted to move to the back and retaliate with some LED Zeppelin. I may do that in future.

 

[vjm1975]

Yesterday evening I saw a pair of Carlisle uniformed staff (Avanti cleaners I think) doing it on a WMT service.

See this quite often on Merseyrail with Carlisle security staff.

Travelling Strasbourg to Offenburg a couple of weeks ago there were loads of people playing stuff on their phones out load. Same with next journey from Offenburg to Ringshiem but at least this train was much lighter loaded. On the return journey it was ok but there was a rarity of a ticket check. Seemed quite a lot didn’t have tickets.

Even in a restaurant in Strasbourg there were multiple tables where people were playing stuff on their phones.

Someone I know recently travelled around France and said it was bad in parts for people playing stuff on their phones. Especially around Paris. I’ve equally came across similar in Germany and also Denmark.

 

[physics34]

That is itself an example of societal degeneration, though. What I was taught was if you can't find a bin you take it with you until you do find one, putting it in the bin at home if you don't find one along the way.

I do think on-train bins need to be bigger and better located, though. While littering isn't acceptable under any circumstances, it does at least reduce the problem.

Interesting you mention fish and chips, though - once upon a time, eating hot* food on trains was considered ASB, now it seems to be the norm.

* I recall oddly worded posters on Merseyrail in my youth saying "please don't eat cooked food on trains".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Dec 2024 ==



I'm less of a fan of that, though, partly because those bins are uselessly small (won't fit for instance a 500ml drink bottle or beer can, which is probably one of the most common forms of on train litter), and partly because they get in the way of the window seat passenger's knee room. A couple in the saloon between seat backs and a large one in each vestibule is probably the best way.

Another this i noticed on Swiss trains.. is that NOBODY eats take away food on trains. Probably as said above it is considered ASB.

Also on Swiss trains.. at seating bays with a table, there is a small bin provided, incorporated into the table!

 

[bramling]

Unfortunately when staff try to enforce the rules they just get abuse. I asked someone to remove his feet from the seats and turn the sound off the other day. Rather than apologise and do as he was told he decided to argue. Ended up getting BTP to remove him.

I hear similar tales of entitled behaviour and abuse towards staff from people working in retail and hospitality. Society is breaking apart.

Agreed. If we’re going to attempt to go down the road of staff enforcing stuff, there needs to be support from the BTP. In other words, that if someone doesn’t reply and shrugs it off with a “what are you going to do?”, there has to be a real prospect that BTP will appear at the next station and will report for an offence. At present we’re a million miles away from that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Someone I know recently travelled around France and said it was bad in parts for people playing stuff on their phones. Especially around Paris. I’ve equally came across similar in Germany and also Denmark.

While Germany is often glorified in here (including by me at times) it's long been the case that antisocial behaviour on urban public transport there is a lot worse than here, largely because it's all DOO and there are usually no station staff either - the only staff about are the drivers and very occasional revenue squads.

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Another this i noticed on Swiss trains.. is that NOBODY eats take away food on trains.

People do eat takeaway food on trains in Switzerland all the time. It's just that the takeaway food on offer is typically not the kind that annoys people - it's mostly sandwiches, salads and the likes. Pizza is generally sold for consumption on the premises and McD's etc are far fewer in number (I don't think KFC is there at all?)

Also in many cases you don't need it because you can go and sit down in the restaurant car!

Also on Swiss trains.. at seating bays with a table, there is a small bin provided, incorporated into the table!

Uselessly small and usually impacts on the knee room for the window seat passenger.

 

[Beebman]

On a visit 'down under' last month I spent a few days in Sydney. On the trains on just about every journey I took there was some phone noise but generally brief and quiet. However there was a couple of exceptions.

On a journey from the western suburban centre of Parramatta to central Sydney, a man got on at an intermediate station, sat two rows in front of me and started playing music VERY loudly indeed on his phone. It was so loud that without hesitation I got up, went over to him and politely but firmly asked him to turn it down. He said 'sorry' and fully turned it off.

The following day I made a return journey to the city of Wollongong, about 50 miles south of Sydney. The EMUs on this line are of a type called 'H-Set' or 'OSCAR' which have a quiet coach. No problems on the outward journey but on the return a man took a call on his phone and kept it on speaker for about 30 minutes. Everyone in the coach was glaring at him but nobody did anything to ask him to stop (I also admittedly did nothing because as far as I was concerned other people who were sitting nearer to him should have said something).

So it does very much look like a global problem.

 

[TUC]

Interesting you mention fish and chips, though - once upon a time, eating hot* food on trains was considered ASB, now it seems to be the norm.

* I recall oddly worded posters on Merseyrail in my youth saying "please don't eat cooked food on trains".

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Dec 2024 ==

There can be good reasons for eating hot food on long distance trains. Those of us who have to regularly travel long distances to London for meetings and then, when going home on the evening already faced with getting back after 2100, if given a choice between eating at the station and being even later home or eating on the train, it's unsurprising the latter is chosen. Besides which, if eating hot food on train is OK for First Class (even if less often available these days) it's hard to see why it should be any different for Standard.

 

[Halwynd]

Well-to-do man in his 60s walks into bank branch with his wife and grandson. Wife goes to counter to carry out her transaction, man and grandson go and sit down in corner of branch and grandson starts to watch videos on a tablet at full volume. Other bank customers look on with disapproval, grandfather oblivious. Member of branch staff goes over and very politely asks them to turn the volume off. Grandfather causes a scene and ultimately tells staff member to eff off. A marker is put on his account and several weeks later he is given 60 days notice that his bank accounts are being closed.

If there's a will, these people can be dealt with...