Why does a (STATIONS) selection not route to first called at in that group

[Pumperkin]

In the course of looking at tickets from Bristol to Worcester (STNS), I have noticed it routes to Foregate Street even though Shrub Hill is called at first and falls under STNS for Worcester. Any ideas why? In particular it is the 17:48 ex Cheltenham on 19/09

 

[yorkie]

What is "it"? I am assuming "it" is a journey planner?

 

[Pumperkin]

Sorry yes - nationalrail.co.uk My go-to for an initial look

 

[Haywain]

And what's the problem with what nationalrail.co.uk is doing? The train will be calling at Shrub Hill and the fare will be the same for both. If you only want Shrub Hill you need to select the specific station.

 

[Pumperkin]

And what's the problem with what nationalrail.co.uk is doing? The train will be calling at Shrub Hill and the fare will be the same for both. If you only want Shrub Hill you need to select the specific station.

I just find it strange. Someone might just want to travel to Worcester, not caring whether Shrub Hill or Foregate Street. They may be put off by a late arrival at WOF, but the train may have been sat at WOS for upwards of 10 minutes. I think if you select (STATIONS) it should just tell you the time it arrives at the earliest of any of them, rather than the last (if this is what it's doing). Not sure what the benefit of it showing a later arrival time in Worcester is?

 

[Paul Kelly]

Some journey planners do what you describe; some don't. Chepstow to Worcester Stations is an interesting one, as the fastest journey can sometimes involve calling at Foregate St first, and at other times at Shrub Hill first. FastJP will always give a journey plan to the first station in the group: http://www.fastjp.com/#journeys?orig=CPW&dest=0447&odate=20190920&otime=1400&maxres=10&maxch=7

I think it's interesting that it's not standardised. RDG are quite insistent these days that ticket issuing systems provide passengers with information on all the stations within a fares group that they may use their ticket to/from, but I don't think there is any standardisation requirement on which station in a fares group the journey plan should start/end at.

 

[tony_mac]

Just for fun (?) I checked different journey planners to see what options you get when choosing Liverpool Lime St to Manchester (stations / all / any / whatever).
Unsuprisingly, all give options to Victoria; but there are at least 6 different ways of choosing the other 3 Manchester stations...
(No other options chosen; just a sample from 10am tomorrow - except for the ***** site that thinks 10am tomorrow is in the past!)

1) Deansgate
2) Oxford Road (terminating only), Piccadilly
3) Oxford Road (all), Piccadilly
4) Deansgate (Oxford Road Terminator), Oxford Road
5) Piccadilly
6) Victoria only

 

[yorkie]

That's a tricky one.

To me, from a human point of view, it would make more sense to offer the ticket to the first Worcester station (the train may hang around and there is probably no point staying on; arguably if someone wanted a specific Worcester station they would have specified it) but for Manchester (ignoring trains to/via Victoria), it would make sense to offer the ticket to Oxford Road if the train terminates there (it's probably not worth the faff of changing trains, unless the customer specifically wanted Piccadilly, in which case you'd they'd have specified it), but I am not so sure about Deansgate on a train that continues to Oxford Road / Piccadilly, as Deansgate is not where most people will want to go.

But from a computer programming point of view, is there a difference between the Worcester and Manchester examples? Probably not.

So I am not sure how to solve that issue.

 

[alistairlees]

You can get the same sort of effect by trying (e.g.) Barnes to London Terminals. Both Vauxhall and London Waterloo will show up as the destination, depending on whether the train stops at Vauxhall or not. Must be very confusing for ordinary folk who no doubt did not have Vauxhall in mind at all when they selected "London Terminals".

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

To me, from a human point of view, it would make more sense to offer the ticket to the first Worcester station

I would expect journey planners (and the two I know about can do this) to allow some stations in a group to be marked as important and to give journeys to those where possible. Otherwise, while some groups like Worcester will work well with the 'first' station, others will give odd results half the time. The stations in a search don't need to have anything to do with the existence of a fare group - there is no reason for Vauxhall to show when asking for London - if any planners do that then it's their (IMO defective) choice. You can have an 'all stations' option for anywhere you like, although I suppose the fare groups we have form a good starting point when deciding which ones to have.

 

[yorkie]

I would expect journey planners (and the two I know about can do this) to allow some stations in a group to be marked as important and to give journeys to those where possible. Otherwise, while some groups like Worcester will work well with the 'first' station, others will give odd results half the time. The stations in a search don't need to have anything to do with the existence of a fare group - there is no reason for Vauxhall to show when asking for London - if any planners do that then it's their (IMO defective) choice. You can have an 'all stations' option for anywhere you like, although I suppose the fare groups we have form a good starting point when deciding which ones to have.

I was thinking along the same lines! But is this something each journey planner should do independently, or should RDG take the lead?

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

I was thinking along the same lines! But is this something each journey planner should do independently, or should RDG take the lead?

I think they should... or at least provide a minimum set. And I think I do mean minimum - there aren't many places where a real choice of stations is necessary, either because you can only use one anyway or one dominates the town. It does make selection easier I suppose, if I don't know which Maidstone I want.