Why don't you cycle?

[YouLostAStar]

As anyone involved in risk assessing should know. PPE is the last resort when all other means to control the hazard have been exhausted.

True but PPE is still there for a reason.
It may not save you in every situation, in some situations it may only reduce the damage taken but if you ever get in a situation where it has saved you then you appreciate it a lot more.
New helmet cost me £40, bruised leg took a few weeks to heal and my knee took about about 4 months but I walked away from an accident.
Also the first place on my body I checked was ok was my head, as soon as I came to terms with that being ok it helped me calm down a lot.

 

[moonarrow458]

I would first like to start off and say this is a fascinating discussion. I cycle, i cannot drive as i do not possess a drivers licence and there are a lot of interesting points brought up in this thread.

When i was predominantly living in London, except for on the canals and the central cycle superhighway ( an excellent cycling artery through C. London - somewhere where you can witness cycle congestion due to the huge volumes of cyclists) in London, i did not see many other people cycling, why? Non existant infrastructure, its so dangerous and quite terrifying to cycle in London sometimes, but is often the most time efficient way to get around, and as others have said is good at least for your physical health.

Having been forced to cycle into my job at Tesco's for a few weeks while at uni when my car's turbo (it was a diesel car, so don't get any ideas about me!) kicked the bucket, it was my own housemates who pointed out that I was suddenly way more short-tempered than usual during that time period; my friends from lectures also indicated that I was zoning out of group sessions way more often than normal. While I noticed neither, I did notice a dramatic decrease in my energy and vigour at work. All 3 noticed I'd gone "back to normal" after getting my car back.

Whilst i don't agree with a lot of the sentiment of this poster, they do raise a rather good point, the notion that cycling is a stress reliever and mood uplifter is not universal for everyone. I'd say poor infrastructure and dangerous conditions have a lot to answer for here. By my own admission i find when i have to cycle on roads in London, i tense up and do find myself having to get internally quite agressive and ascerting my space in the road, for my own safety, and i would not say that is good for my mental health. But if you are for example cycling across Shepherds Bush Green on your bike, and over the Holland Park roundabout (better cycling infrastructure desperately needed here) you are going to struggle to do that if you do not ascert your space in the road and in particular going in the middle lanes to avoid clashing with left turning traffic going straight ahead. On those rides, you become quite the hot head, not to mention sweaty, because of the stress entailed there, so i can empathise with this posters sentiment that cycling to work made them feel a lot worse.

However in Umeå, northern Sweden where i am for university the cycle infrastructure, all dating back from the 1960s is so much better, probably the best i've eveperienced where it is mostly completely segregated from the road such that i very rarely have to cycle on the road, and then it is a delight to cycle. Then it is stressfree, then it feels safe. And yes you will find people quite regularly cycling in the ice and snow there when it is minus 10. Granted there are days it is so icy it is not safe to cycle at all, even walking or driving is hazardous, but then thats usually when its around 0 degrees C.

So when people moan about unused cycling infrastructure, it does break my heart a bit, because theres many times i've wished for better cycling infrastructure. Another london example, but i know the cycle lanes on the Chiswick High Road were not without the controversy removing the bus lanes and increasing vehicular congestion, but as a cyclist those bike lanes are wonderful and they are also very well used, by all ages, you see a lot of families cycling alomg there that never would have prior to the creation if those cycle lanes. So when done right, it can have a huge impact for cycling, then that the UK in general has a very backwards attitude to cyclimg and cyclists, with many car drivers actively hating on cyclists (there is some evidence of that one here) might explain why there is so much congestion, as too many are wedded to their cars and believe it is their god-given right to drive and trumps everyone elses rights to mobility in cities, despite cars being one of the least universally accessible mobility solutions.

To round off as a cyclist in London id say the following places are crying out for some dedicated segregated cycle infrastructure, and no, white lines on the road, does not cut it in my opinion.

Savoy Circus, East Acton, crossing the A40 - horrendous crossing as a cyclist, and whilst there are pedestrian subways either side these require dismounting with the bike (significant time penalty) and are not at all safe - heard of far too many muggings and violent assaults in those subways in East Acton that i avoid them at all costs.

Uxbridge Road - theres some limted bike lanes around Acton Town centre and Ealimg Common but there could really do with being a segregated bike lane for more of it, especially by Ealing Broadway.

Holland Park from Notting Hill Gate down to Goldhawk road/Uxbridge Road includimg Holland Park roundabout and shepherds Bush green, lethal as a cyclist.

Old Oak Lane from North Acton (perhaps even extend down to Acton Town Centre via Acton Main Line - following the bus 266) to Harlesden town centre neatly intersecting the Grand Union Canal half-way would create a good safe north south cycle link across west London and into Harlesden which like most of Brent is virtually devoid of bike infrastructure.

Kensal Rise, in particular Chaymberlayne Road, could do with some segregated bike lanes to make things safer there what with all the buses and cars there, and that would connect into the intricate network of back roads either side that provide relatively safe routes for cyclists to traverse Brent.

And as for bikes on trains in the UK, anything with a cupboard where you have to hang your bike up (voyagers, IETs) is completely impracticle - handlebars are often too wide so a cupboard that claims to take 2 bikes only fits one, for older people like my mother, she doesnt have the strength to lift the bike in place - but these were clearly designed by people who do not cycle. The Thameslink 700s, or even the elderly 156s (granted its hard to manouvre the bike through the narrow vestibule on those) demonstrate how bike spaces on trains should be. And yes i do sometimes like to take my bike on the train to do longer rides in the countryside where you can relax and enjoy cycling, rather than getting all stressed and sweaty in London traffic.

 

[Trainbike46]

I still cycle occassionally, I even did a short bike trip today, I do cycle less than I used to.

In part it is that I do less trips that are more than about 10 minutes walk than I used to. But a bigger part is that, in Belfast, both the infrastructure quality, and the skill level of most drivers, is a lot lower than it was in Cambridge and in Edinburgh, meaning that cycling is less safe here. Most of my bike trips now are when I'm not in Belfast, but when I'm visiting other places.

Most of my cycling trips have been replaced by walking though, with the occassional trip now using the bus.

 

[johncrossley]

To round off as a cyclist in London id say the following places are crying out for some dedicated segregated cycle infrastructure, and no, white lines on the road, does not cut it in my opinion.

Savoy Circus, East Acton, crossing the A40 - horrendous crossing as a cyclist, and whilst there are pedestrian subways either side these require dismounting with the bike (significant time penalty) and are not at all safe - heard of far too many muggings and violent assaults in those subways in East Acton that i avoid them at all costs.

Uxbridge Road - theres some limted bike lanes around Acton Town centre and Ealimg Common but there could really do with being a segregated bike lane for more of it, especially by Ealing Broadway.

Holland Park from Notting Hill Gate down to Goldhawk road/Uxbridge Road includimg Holland Park roundabout and shepherds Bush green, lethal as a cyclist.

Old Oak Lane from North Acton (perhaps even extend down to Acton Town Centre via Acton Main Line - following the bus 266) to Harlesden town centre neatly intersecting the Grand Union Canal half-way would create a good safe north south cycle link across west London and into Harlesden which like most of Brent is virtually devoid of bike infrastructure.

Kensal Rise, in particular Chaymberlayne Road, could do with some segregated bike lanes to make things safer there what with all the buses and cars there, and that would connect into the intricate network of back roads either side that provide relatively safe routes for cyclists to traverse Brent.

This is all west London stuff and for some reason west London is poorly served by the recent influx of segregated cycle paths. In parts of east and north London, particularly Tower Hamlets, Hackney, Camden, Islington and Newham there is nearly always a good cycle route available. Kingston and Waltham Forest have the "mini-Hollands". Parts of Southwark and Lambeth aren't too bad.

 

[moonarrow458]

This is all west London stuff and for some reason west London is poorly served by the recent influx of segregated cycle paths. In parts of east and north London, particularly Tower Hamlets, Hackney, Camden, Islington and Newham there is nearly always a good cycle route available. Kingston and Waltham Forest have the "mini-Hollands". Parts of Southwark and Lambeth aren't too bad.

Yes, you do have a point that perhaps my experiences and perceptions of cycling in London are somewhat skewed in that most of my cycling takes place in west london, where as you say the cycling infrastructure is quite lacking behind other parts. Camden borough does seem quite good at cycle infrastructure from experience. Meanwhile Kensington & Chelsea (strong motorist lobby) seem to block every proposed cycle scheme (notably along Kensington High Street) making it hard for TFL to build up a comprehensive cycle network across inner west London.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, you do have a point that perhaps my experiences and perceptions of cycling in London are somewhat skewed in that most of my cycling takes place in west london, where as you say the cycling infrastructure is quite lacking behind other parts. Camden borough does seem quite good at cycle infrastructure from experience. Meanwhile Kensington & Chelsea (strong motorist lobby) seem to block every proposed cycle scheme (notably along Kensington High Street) making it hard for TFL to build up a comprehensive cycle network across inner west London.

They need wider road lanes for their SUVs, pick up trucks and £1m sports cars. Only commoners would have a bicycle.

Sadly there are a lot of rich and influential people who will have the ability to lobby very successfully to never give up road space for bikes.

 

[allbarbarry]

I don’t cycle when travelling to and from work because I live 15 miles from the railway station and it would add an unreasonable amount of time onto my commute.

 

[5hunter]

I'm a signaller and a regular cyclist (between 50-100 miles per week). I also ride/drive both a motorbike and a car. I find the biggest benefit to me is cycling. After a horribly stressful day, cycling home just helps me decompress whereas sitting in traffic afterwards just aggravates me further.

It's not culture to commute by bicycle in the UK but most places in Europe it's more accepted. The Netherlands is substantially head and shoulders above all for cycling infrastructure. Something the UK will never match unfortunately.

Until that happens the roads will always be a breeding ground for the us vs them argument between motorist and cyclist.

It's a shame but I feel that hostility is what puts most off commuting via bike.

 

[Krokodil]

I'm a signaller and a regular cyclist (between 50-100 miles per week). I also ride/drive both a motorbike and a car. I find the biggest benefit to me is cycling. After a horribly stressful day, cycling home just helps me decompress whereas sitting in traffic afterwards just aggravates me further.

It's not culture to commute by bicycle in the UK but most places in Europe it's more accepted. The Netherlands is substantially head and shoulders above all for cycling infrastructure. Something the UK will never match unfortunately.

Until that happens the roads will always be a breeding ground for the us vs them argument between motorist and cyclist.

It's a shame but I feel that hostility is what puts most off commuting via bike.

Where's that 'like' button?

 

[E27007]

I'm a signaller and a regular cyclist (between 50-100 miles per week). I also ride/drive both a motorbike and a car. I find the biggest benefit to me is cycling. After a horribly stressful day, cycling home just helps me decompress whereas sitting in traffic afterwards just aggravates me further.

It's not culture to commute by bicycle in the UK but most places in Europe it's more accepted. The Netherlands is substantially head and shoulders above all for cycling infrastructure. Something the UK will never match unfortunately.

Until that happens the roads will always be a breeding ground for the us vs them argument between motorist and cyclist.

It's a shame but I feel that hostility is what puts most off commuting via bike.

It takes a political will, In the Netherlands, as rising prosperity led to mass-motoring, road deaths by vehicles rose, especially children, "Kinder-Murder".
The far-sighted Dutch tackled the deaths and casualties issue by creating safe road networks in towns and cities for cycling, separating pedestrians cyclist and vehicles from road accidents.
The Dutch have an international organisation who advise other countries of how to design safer cities and towns for cycling

 

[stuu]

It's not culture to commute by bicycle in the UK but most places in Europe it's more accepted. The Netherlands is substantially head and shoulders above all for cycling infrastructure. Something the UK will never match unfortunately.

To be fair they did start taking it seriously in the mid 70s, we only started doing proper infrastructure since about 2010. If you go to Google Streetview in the Netherlands and go back to the oldest images, there's plenty of places where infrastructure used to be more like UK practice but has been improved since. So it's more a matter of time and political will.

 

[Krokodil]

And the Dutch haven't finished yet.

 

[alex397]

To be fair they did start taking it seriously in the mid 70s, we only started doing proper infrastructure since about 2010. If you go to Google Streetview in the Netherlands and go back to the oldest images, there's plenty of places where infrastructure used to be more like UK practice but has been improved since. So it's more a matter of time and political will.

Hopefully sooner rather than later. Surely, as street infrastructure becomes more complicated and cluttered as time goes on, it will become more and more expensive to adapt for cycling infrastructure?

 

[Bikeman78]

Hopefully sooner rather than later. Surely, as street infrastructure becomes more complicated and cluttered as time goes on, it will become more and more expensive to adapt for cycling infrastructure?

Cardiff has made a start on cycle lanes but vehicle drivers don't take them seriously. Often there are taxis or coaches parked in the cycle lane next to Cardiff castle. It's a two way cycle lane. Am I expected to divert around the coach and ride against oncoming traffic? The people that come round to clean the bus shelters usually park their van in the cycle lane too. I don't use the bike lanes when riding on the wrong side of the road. Drivers don't look left when exiting a side road and turning left. They often stop on the cycle lane too.

 

[stuu]

There should really be a specific offence of blocking cycle lanes, like for bus lanes

 

[Bletchleyite]

There should really be a specific offence of blocking cycle lanes, like for bus lanes

Probably more there should be the concept of a Red Route extended to the whole UK (rather than just being a London thing) and they should be implemented on all roads that have cycle lanes, with suitable loading bays for stuff like lorries and courier vans inside the cycle lane near shops and the likes.

Yes, I get that a Red Route is essentially the same thing as double yellow lines with double yellow kerb markings for a loading ban, and Urban Clearways are a thing outside London too (done using signage rather than red lines), but it's much more prominent and well understood.

 

[JamesT]

Probably more there should be the concept of a Red Route extended to the whole UK (rather than just being a London thing) and they should be implemented on all roads that have cycle lanes, with suitable loading bays for stuff like lorries and courier vans inside the cycle lane near shops and the likes.

Yes, I get that a Red Route is essentially the same thing as double yellow lines with double yellow kerb markings for a loading ban, and Urban Clearways are a thing outside London too (done using signage rather than red lines), but it's much more prominent and well understood.

I don't see that will make any difference whilst there's a complete lack of enforcement. People will keep parking where they shouldn't because they know they're unlikely to be caught.

 

[lachlan]

I don't see that will make any difference whilst there's a complete lack of enforcement. People will keep parking where they shouldn't because they know they're unlikely to be caught.

Should be coupled with a pavement parking ban and associated publicity, and crucially, enforced.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't see that will make any difference whilst there's a complete lack of enforcement. People will keep parking where they shouldn't because they know they're unlikely to be caught.

Enforcement certainly helps, but so does awareness. I bet 90% of drivers have no idea (a) what no-loading markings mean, or (b) what loading even legally is. I also doubt most drivers know what the clearway (red X on a blue background) sign means. Whereas "double red lines mean you can't stop there even for a minute" is pretty crystal clear. Obviously some would ignore it anyway, but I suspect compliance would improve.

I had a similar view on the new (almost universally ignored) rules about letting pedestrians cross at junctions. It was and remains my view that we should have changed the markings at junctions to signify that the rules had changed, e.g. by adding zebra markings to replace the current give way lines, and phased the change in as roads were updated. Because with no obvious physical change, hardly any driver has ever heard of it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Feb 2025 ==

Should be coupled with a pavement parking ban and associated publicity, and crucially, enforced.

A pavement parking ban is definitely needed (with marked pavement bays where exceptions are needed, as London does) but I think it's really a separate issue, and as things stand for cyclists the car may be better off on the pavement than in the cycle lane!

 

[stuu]

Enforcement certainly helps, but so does awareness. I bet 90% of drivers have no idea (a) what no-loading markings mean, or (b) what loading even legally is. I also doubt most drivers know what the clearway (red X on a blue background) sign means. Whereas "double red lines mean you can't stop there even for a minute" is pretty crystal clear. Obviously some would ignore it anyway, but I suspect compliance would improve.

I had a similar view on the new (almost universally ignored) rules about letting pedestrians cross at junctions. It was and remains my view that we should have changed the markings at junctions to signify that the rules had changed, e.g. by adding zebra markings to replace the current give way lines, and phased the change in as roads were updated. Because with no obvious physical change, hardly any driver has ever heard of it.

Definitely agree re pedestrians crossing at junctions

On cycle lanes I would have thought the first step would be double yellows on both sides of the cycle lane, at present in most places there aren't any markings telling people they can't stop there. Obviously some people will still ignore them, but everyone knows what double yellows mean and the potential consequences of ignoring them

 

[JamesT]

Definitely agree re pedestrians crossing at junctions

On cycle lanes I would have thought the first step would be double yellows on both sides of the cycle lane, at present in most places there aren't any markings telling people they can't stop there. Obviously some people will still ignore them, but everyone knows what double yellows mean and the potential consequences of ignoring them

Double yellows don't help. I give you https://maps.app.goo.gl/mX4Duyz57twwMtvU9 which is a Streetview of a road in Oxford. Double-yellow lines, mandatory cycle lane markings. There are people parked there every day.

 

[Krokodil]

I had a similar view on the new (almost universally ignored) rules about letting pedestrians cross at junctions. It was and remains my view that we should have changed the markings at junctions to signify that the rules had changed, e.g. by adding zebra markings to replace the current give way lines, and phased the change in as roads were updated. Because with no obvious physical change, hardly any driver has ever heard of it.

In the long term they should be rearranging the ramps. When entering a side road cars should ramp up to pavement level, rather than the pavement dropping down to road level as is currently the practice. It's easier for wheelchair users, forces cars to slow down, and reminds them that they don't have priority.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Double yellows don't help. I give you https://maps.app.goo.gl/mX4Duyz57twwMtvU9 which is a Streetview of a road in Oxford. Double-yellow lines, mandatory cycle lane markings. There are people parked there every day.

The problem with double yellows is that loading is allowed, and the kerb markings used to prohibit loading aren't very prominent.

That's why I think Red Routes would have more impact despite close to meaning the same thing as double yellows with double kerb markings.

Obviously there are those drivers who will just disregard the law anyway, but I think better markings would help with those people who aren't quite that disregarding of the law and just push their luck a bit.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Feb 2025 ==

In the long term they should be rearranging the ramps. When entering a side road cars should ramp up to pavement level, rather than the pavement dropping down to road level as is currently the practice. It's easier for wheelchair users, forces cars to slow down, and reminds them that they don't have priority.

Yes, agree with this, it works very well in the Netherlands. However it's costly so needs to be targetted, markings are a lot cheaper as a start. It makes sense for all new construction to be like that though.

 

[Krokodil]

Unfortunately many councils even put "give way" lines such that people riding bikes parallel with the main road have to give way to cars turning in or out of side roads. I would dearly like to meet the people who sign off on these designs - do they never wonder why they don't get used?

 

[jon0844]

Unfortunately many councils even put "give way" lines such that people riding bikes parallel with the main road have to give way to cars turning in or out of side roads. I would dearly like to meet the people who sign off on these designs - do they never wonder why they don't get used?

Painted cycle lanes are totally pointless and shouldn't be allowed to count towards cycle infrastructure targets. Even simple poles would suffice in most cases, but even today you get paint thrown down on roads where a cycle lane may run against traffic (one way for cars, the other for bikes).

HCC recently installed new cycle lanes in Welwyn Garden City. Some done properly with kerbs, others being paint that leaves the road wide enough that you get cars actually driving the wrong way as they can fit - and then, thanks to there being a KFC and kebab shop, delivery drivers block the cycle route to pick up food. In the last week or so they've remodelled a little bit by raising the end of the cycle lane what appears to be nothing more than a few inches and using block paving to deter vehicles entering the wrong way - but it's as shallow as a dropped kerb and totally and utterly pointless.

If anything the low level seems to send a message that it's okay to drive over (otherwise it would be a proper kerb).

 

[Falcon1200]

Drivers don't look left when exiting a side road and turning left. They often stop on the cycle lane too.

In Oxford there are separate cycle lines on both sides of part of the Marston Road, however when cycling to and from school in the 1970s I never used them, for the reasons above. Nowadays the road markings have been changed so that motorists to or from the side roads should not block or impede cyclists; However I would not for one moment trust them.

 

[trainmania100]

Even though my commute is a 1.5 mile walk or drive to work, and I do have a bike, I don't bother cycling.
Why?

• Helmet messes up my hair if it's not short enough.
• Why get tired after a 10 min cycle on road on a mountain bike, all sweaty, before you've even started work
• Prep / unprep the bike at 6 in the morning ie get out of the shed / cover
• No cycle lanes. All road cycling, numerous junctions to look out on, including turning off right on a busy road which is already hard enough to cross as a pedestrian
• Come back out of work and the bikes gone

For the sake of the distance to work, and the fact I'm on my feet for the 7hr shift anyway, what benefit there will be cycling to work is negligible compared to walking.

I take the car because it maximises my productivity after work. 4 minute drive home Vs 25 minute walk. Saving almost an hour a day.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A mountain bike is the wrong tool for that. Get a decent urban hybrid (or fit road tyres). Riding on knobblies is a lot of extra effort!

 

[jon0844]

A mountain bike is the wrong tool for that. Get a decent urban hybrid (or fit road tyres). Riding on knobblies is a lot of extra effort!

Get an e-bike so you're not sweaty either.

 

[Tetragon213]

Get an e-bike so you're not sweaty either.

Just ignoring the minor issue that an e-bike costs well into four-figure territory...