Why don't you cycle?

[Bletchleyite]

Red Routes are now permitted UK wide (not just London).

Interesting, thanks. Anyone know if this has been used yet?

 

[bspahh]

Interesting, thanks. Anyone know if this has been used yet?

Luton had a trial in 2018-2020 and has plans to introduce them permanently somewhere, sometime

https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/t...acked-by-council-but-no-sites-decided-4775780

Plans for more red routes in Luton backed by council - but no sites decided

Reading has them, but is having to refund 6000 fines after errors with the Traffic Regulation Orders

Progress continues on correcting Traffic Regulation Order errors | Reading Borough Council News

Process to rectify errors in nine Traffic Regulation Orders due to proceed in coming weeks Efforts continue to contact motorists who may be due reimbursement for incorrectly issued penalty charge notices

media.reading.gov.uk

Work is progressing to correct errors in historic Traffic Regulation Orders (TROs) and to reimburse motorists who were incorrectly issued with penalty charge notices (PCNs) for parking offences as a result.

The Council discovered errors in five TROs which resulted in around 6,140 PCNs being incorrectly issued, primarily on the East Reading Red Route between July 2018 – 2024. Errors were found on another four TROs which did not affect the validity of any PCNs issued.

 

[BeijingDave]

I would love to, but most cities in the UK have very little cycling infrastructure beyond a few white lines painted by the side of the road. I live in Liverpool where few people cycle because you have to share the road with maniac drivers.

I look at Dutch cities with envy, I wish we had leaders who took cycling seriously as a solution to congestion and pollution.

This puts me off too.

And as a motorist, I don't think there are that many maniac drivers. The lack of cycling infrastructure puts everyone in dangerous situations e.g. a line of cars slowed down behind a bicycle on a country road, and finally (under pressure from the cars behind) a driver takes the chance to overtake, but does so in a dangerous way that could result in a head-on vehicle collision.

I see that so frequently.

 

[Trainbike46]

This puts me off too.

And as a motorist, I don't think there are that many maniac drivers. The lack of cycling infrastructure puts everyone in dangerous situations e.g. a line of cars slowed down behind a bicycle on a country road, and finally (under pressure from the cars behind) a driver takes the chance to overtake, but does so in a dangerous way that could result in a head-on vehicle collision.

I see that so frequently.

The amount of drivers that appears to forget you should check whether there are cars heading the other way when overtaking is truly terrifying.

When I still lived in England there were some roads I decided avoid cycling on because cars kept almost causing head-on collision when undertaking ill-advised overtaking manouevres.

 

[WelshBluebird]

For me it's theft, from two different pov.

The first is that I don't have a bike anymore due it being stolen a while back and I had never gotten around to replacing it.

The second is that I live in Bristol which can be pretty bad for bike theft, and even if I still had a bike I wouldn't be confident in leaving it locked up somewhere in public.

I actually live near some pretty useful cycle paths and quieter roads so not too bothered by that side of things for the journeys I'd make.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bristol has fairly decent hire scheme coverage - and those are ebikes which helps with the hills. Costly if you do it daily (being priced between bus and taxi) but presumably handy for occasional use given Bristol's very poor public transport for a city of its size.

 

[PeterY]

I love cycling. At 67 I tend to plod these days and only measure my distance and not moving average. I had a good year on the bike. last year and rode 4,338 miles and one day, I managed the magic 100 miles in a day. ( It took me 10 hours though ) I love to cafe surf

There are certain roads I wouldn't dream of riding along. I live in Hertfordshire, so there's plenty of off road routes, disused railways, country lanes and canal towpaths.

I commute 3 days a week from Hemel Hempstead to Watford, in the school run, it takes about 40 to 50 minutes to drive, assuming there's no temporary traffic lights (that's another story). to cycle is always about 40 minutes.

 

[AHBD]

Driving bans should last at least 10? years with required retest : long enough to indicate that driving is not a right and be too long to just wait out .

 

[Bayum]

I’m disabled and bony growths have stiffened my hip so I can’t move it past 10 degrees of flexion on a good day.

 

[Bikeman78]

Even if it isn't, the third party cover (and the rules around it) can save you from crippling legal costs in the event of an accident.

I have always been baffled by this. There was no suggestion that Mr Hazeldean did anything wrong, so I'm surprised that the claim was successful.

She is lucky it was only a bicycle that hit her. If she had been hit by a vehicle, would she have sued the driver?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Even if it isn't, the third party cover (and the rules around it) can save you from crippling legal costs in the event of an accident.

A very large number of people already have third party insurance cover for general life stuff (including cycling) through their home contents insurance. I did once get it in writing from Direct Line that this was included in their policies, though it may of course have changed.

Though a specific policy can make things easier and I have one that was close to free alongside the theft insurance on my e-bike (unlike car insurance these policies are super-cheap as there's almost never any claims - pretty much all claims involving cycles are for theft).

One thing the Germans do better than us is that most people carry a general liability policy (which also covers cycling) even if not a homeowner - makes things much easier if e.g. your kid puts a football through your neighbour's window.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2025 ==

I have always been baffled by this. There was no suggestion that Mr Hazeldean did anything wrong, so im surprised that the claim was successful.

She is lucky it was only a bicycle that hit her. If she had been hit by a vehicle, would she have sued the driver?

I'd agree it is odd that the judge ruled it 50-50. However I wasn't there and wonder if he might have been able to swerve to avoid the collision but did not, and thus some contributory negligence was there.

 

[JamesT]

I'd agree it is odd that the judge ruled it 50-50. However I wasn't there and wonder if he might have been able to swerve to avoid the collision but did not, and thus some contributory negligence was there.

Woman knocked down while on phone wins payout from cyclist

Judge rules man liable because cyclists must be prepared for unexpected behaviour

www.theguardian.com

The court heard that Brushett was one of a “throng” of people trying to cross the road at the start of rush-hour. She was looking at her mobile phone when crossing the road, and only noticed Hazeldean approaching at the last moment, despite the traffic lights showing green.

The court was told she panicked and tried to step back, but the cyclist, who had been travelling at 10-15mph, swerved in the same direction and hit her.

Judge Mauger said: “When I stand back and ask: ‘How did the accident happen?’ it seems to me that Mr Hazeldean owed a duty to other road users to drive with reasonable care and skill,” she said.

“Even where a motorist or cyclist had the right of way, pedestrians who are established on the road have right of way. Mr Hazeldean did fall below the level to be expected of a reasonably competent cyclist in that he did proceed when the road was not completely clear.”

As I read that, he did swerve but the ended up colliding anyway. The implication is that rather than trying to swerve, he should have tried to stop. Other articles mention he sounded his horn, so he was aware of the pedestrians at least somewhat in advance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Woman knocked down while on phone wins payout from cyclist

Judge rules man liable because cyclists must be prepared for unexpected behaviour

www.theguardian.com

As I read that, he did swerve but the ended up colliding anyway. The implication is that rather than trying to swerve, he should have tried to stop. Other articles mention he sounded his horn, so he was aware of the pedestrians at least somewhat in advance.

I think if you're truly trying to avoid a collision you need to both have the brakes on AND consider swerving. If he didn't brake at all then his actions probably were contributory.

Yes, people shouldn't walk out without looking, but those "lower down" the hierarchy also need to take defensive actions in case they do.

 

[Bikeman78]

Woman knocked down while on phone wins payout from cyclist

Judge rules man liable because cyclists must be prepared for unexpected behaviour

www.theguardian.com

As I read that, he did swerve but the ended up colliding anyway. The implication is that rather than trying to swerve, he should have tried to stop. Other articles mention he sounded his horn, so he was aware of the pedestrians at least somewhat in advance.

Not only did she cross the road without looking but then changed direction without warning. That's the worst thing to do. E.g if you pull out of a junction in front of someone, keep going. Don't slam on the brakes and block their path. I hope she drives more carefully than she walks.

 

[jon0844]

Ringing a bell or horn at a pedestrian is to let them know you're there, and it's often futile as the people in their own world have earbuds in and can't hear anything anyway.

You absolutely need to assume pedestrians will do stupid things and prepare to stop, just as I do with pedestrians and cyclists when I'm driving. As you 'go up the food chain' you accept more responsibilities.

 

[styles]

I do cycle reasonably often. An injury has prevented me doing so for a year or so otherwise it would be more.

But even I will admit that the car is more comfortable and tempting in bad weather. Where we live is hilly. The roads you need to travel on to leave the village aren't great for cycling - drivers going too fast round tight corners and bouncing over hills, potholes, no street lights or pavements. I contend with them sometimes but they're not very inviting.

 

[jon0844]

I do cycle reasonably often. An injury has prevented me doing so for a year or so otherwise it would be more.

But even I will admit that the car is more comfortable and tempting in bad weather. Where we live is hilly. The roads you need to travel on to leave the village aren't great for cycling - drivers going too fast round tight corners and bouncing over hills, potholes, no street lights or pavements. I contend with them sometimes but they're not very inviting.

Even with an e-bike, I choose not to cycle on unlit roads with national speed limits and curves where someone racing around a corner simply wouldn't see me in time. I have good lighting and wear reflective clothing, but know my limits.

Luckily, I can cycle a slightly longer route that's well lit and has off-road cycle facilities (sadly not cleared and in a very poor state, but I can opt to use the road if conditions allow).

 

[ChrisC]

I do cycle reasonably often. An injury has prevented me doing so for a year or so otherwise it would be more.

But even I will admit that the car is more comfortable and tempting in bad weather. Where we live is hilly. The roads you need to travel on to leave the village aren't great for cycling - drivers going too fast round tight corners and bouncing over hills, potholes, no street lights or pavements. I contend with them sometimes but they're not very inviting.

I have a folding e-bike which I put in the boot of the car and take to cycle in locations where there is not fast and heavy traffic. I mostly cycle on very quiet country lanes and cycle trails. I would never cycle straight from home as the roads are too busy through the village. Cycling on main roads in a rural area can be more dangerous than in cities. Busy B roads in country areas, which are narrow in places with bends and hills, are not ideal for cycling.

 

[johncrossley]

Has anyone here moved or is considering moving to somewhere with better cycling conditions?

 

[jon0844]

Has anyone here moved or is considering moving to somewhere with better cycling conditions?

I think a commute from Amsterdam would be impractical...

 

[The Ham]

Has anyone here moved or is considering moving to somewhere with better cycling conditions?

Where I live has very few cycle routes, however there's a lot of cut through between cul-de-sacs and so cycling isn't too bad as most of those roads don't have a lot of traffic on them.

 

[Krokodil]

Has anyone here moved or is considering moving to somewhere with better cycling conditions?

I deliberately moved to a location close enough to work and amenities to go car-free, but the infrastructure is a bit of a mixed bag. I would define adequate infrastructure as "your wife, child or grandmother should be able to confidently get to wherever they might need to go. That a bolshy adult man is prepared to brave the conditions is not enough, there needs to be access for all. I'd want to see improvements before I'd consider that this area passes the test.

If the opportunity came up to relocate to the Netherlands or Denmark, I'd jump at the chance. No just better cycling infrastructure but better public transport too. For that matter you can add Switzerland to the list - it has some cycling infrastructure and the public transport is the best in the world. Edit- I'll add Freiburg im Breisgau and Ghent to the list, they beat all except Utrecht and Dhaka on cycling modal share.

 

[JohnMcL7]

Woman knocked down while on phone wins payout from cyclist

Judge rules man liable because cyclists must be prepared for unexpected behaviour

www.theguardian.com

As I read that, he did swerve but the ended up colliding anyway. The implication is that rather than trying to swerve, he should have tried to stop. Other articles mention he sounded his horn, so he was aware of the pedestrians at least somewhat in advance.

Yes from what I remember of the court ruling he did have an opportunity to slow down since he saw her in time but chose not to. It was an odd case because she was ruled as partially to blame but since he hadn't countersued her then he was left with a hefty bill. As another post mentions above I'm always really careful around pedestrians since I quickly found many simply don't look before stepping out onto the road and don't hear the bike coming since it's mostly silent.

 

[Bikeman78]

Ringing a bell or horn at a pedestrian is to let them know you're there, and it's often futile as the people in their own world have earbuds in and can't hear anything anyway.

You absolutely need to assume pedestrians will do stupid things and prepare to stop, just as I do with pedestrians and cyclists when I'm driving. As you 'go up the food chain' you accept more responsibilities.

I never use my bell or shout at people. I slow down or change course. Saw a bloke last night stroll across the road yapping into his phone. He didn't look in either direction. In a world with increasing numbers of near silent electric vehicles, it's not a great strategy.

 

[BeijingDave]

Has anyone here moved or is considering moving to somewhere with better cycling conditions?

Perhaps surprisingly, Beijing has excellent cycling conditions, as a result of most people using bicycles rather than cars until fairly recently.

As a result, almost every major road has a dedicated cycle lane between the pavement (sidewalk) and the road itself, usually enclosed with a small metal fence.

And in the hutongs (small pedestrian lanes) people are quite used to sharing space with bicycles.

 

[DM352]

Where I live right now, it is snow and ice 4-6 months of the year. Studded tyres help but make the trip slow due to the increased resistance. Bike paths are treated and this is my preferred route though takes longer.

The roads just don't feel as safe post covid with more distracted drivers especially those needing to speed for the gig economy deliveries.

 

[The Ham]

Often there's issues with poor policy related to cycling, however articles like this (arguing that there should be less cycle parking in London) don't help:

Office cycle bays risk being spectacular 'eco-own goal'

An industry group has warned that London's cycling policy is harming the environment, with too many cycle bays and not enough cyclists.

www.cityam.com

Basically they say there's a carbon cost to building cycle parking and this is increasing carbon emissions.

However there's a few things they argue which don't help their case.

First up they say the cycle parking is set at about 1 space per five people, yet argue this is over provision as only 32% of people live within 10km of where they work.

Given that 32% is virtually the same as 1 in 3 that's appears to be a weak argument.

They also complain about how each parking space requires 1.29 tonnes of carbon to provide, however given that these will be there for the lifespan of the building, the per km addition to those cycling is going to be low, even if the spaces are under used.

Let's say that there's 3 spaces for each cycle which uses them and the building lasts for 15 years and the cyclist travels 2km each way to get to work (all fairly low values). That would be 12,000km (based on 200 days of work) or 32g per km.

Currently a large EV but built in Sweden (where they use a green energy for the production) and charging from solar (so almost as green as you can get) produce 33g per km.

However most building would last longer than 15 years and so the gap would increase further.

They do talk about it would be better if there was better cycle infrastructure, however I don't think that the developers are offering to fintd that!

Overall it comes across as trying to get away with not doing something and trying to argue (by using numbers which sound scary) that cycle parking isn't needed.

 

[lachlan]

Often there's issues with poor policy related to cycling, however articles like this (arguing that there should be less cycle parking in London) don't help:

Office cycle bays risk being spectacular 'eco-own goal'

An industry group has warned that London's cycling policy is harming the environment, with too many cycle bays and not enough cyclists.

www.cityam.com

Basically they say there's a carbon cost to building cycle parking and this is increasing carbon emissions.

However there's a few things they argue which don't help their case.

First up they say the cycle parking is set at about 1 space per five people, yet argue this is over provision as only 32% of people live within 10km of where they work.

Given that 32% is virtually the same as 1 in 3 that's appears to be a weak argument.

They also complain about how each parking space requires 1.29 tonnes of carbon to provide, however given that these will be there for the lifespan of the building, the per km addition to those cycling is going to be low, even if the spaces are under used.

Let's say that there's 3 spaces for each cycle which uses them and the building lasts for 15 years and the cyclist travels 2km each way to get to work (all fairly low values). That would be 12,000km (based on 200 days of work) or 32g per km.

Currently a large EV but built in Sweden (where they use a green energy for the production) and charging from solar (so almost as green as you can get) produce 33g per km.

However most building would last longer than 15 years and so the gap would increase further.

They do talk about it would be better if there was better cycle infrastructure, however I don't think that the developers are offering to fintd that!

Overall it comes across as trying to get away with not doing something and trying to argue (by using numbers which sound scary) that cycle parking isn't needed.

Of course a property association will take this position - after all, it's a cost they would rather not spend.

Meanwhile some future-proofing is definitely welcome and if those spaces aren't being used now they will be in the future as other cycle infrastructure improves.

 

[Magdalia]

As you might expect, there is a different attitude to provision of workplace cycling facilities in Cambridge.

Here is a brochure about the Botanic Place redevelopment:

https://www.botanicplacecambridge.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Botanic-Place-Committee-Brochure.pdf

Botanic Place Section 73 amendments brochure submitted to Planning Committee members on 1 November 2023​

Best in class cycling facilities to accommodate over 1,500 cycle spaces alongside showering and changing facilities to encourage sustainable and active travel, significantly reducing car parking spaces available on-site

The latest phase of the Discovery Drive development on the Biomedical Campus includes an underground cycle park with 456 spaces.

The recently opened Astra Zeneca Travel Hub, also on the Biomedical Campus, has cycle parking on the ground floor and car parking above, but I can't find a figure for number of cycles.

 

[Meerkat]

Yes from what I remember of the court ruling he did have an opportunity to slow down since he saw her in time but chose not to. It was an odd case because she was ruled as partially to blame but since he hadn't countersued her then he was left with a hefty bill. As another post mentions above I'm always really careful around pedestrians since I quickly found many simply don't look before stepping out onto the road and don't hear the bike coming since it's mostly silent.

One might have legal cover via other policies, but if you are a member of Cycling UK (ex CTC) you get £10m third party cover and free legal advice.
Decades ago an old chap pulled out on me at a roundabout - I went across his bonnet and slid 10 yards down the road.
CTC lined up serious London lawyers and I got a generous settlement.