Why I prefer to use a ticket office and obtain a physical ticket

[BingMan]

It's unbelievable the bad luck people on this forum have with phones.
Meanwhile, over in the real world, what things run off, essentially, a mobile phone never dieing? police, ambulance, supermarket shopping deliveries amazon deliveries & many more. Yet forum members struggle to make a train journey. Maybe there could be some study into it. Just why do forum members struggle to keep phones working? I'd love to know.

The main reason for a 'phone failing is a flat battery Given that most trains have chsrging points that shouldn't be a problem. Unless the dog eats your USB cable.

 

[AdamWW]

The main reason for a 'phone failing is a flat battery Given that most trains have chsrging points that shouldn't be a problem. Unless the dog eats your USB cable.

And of course they do sometimes fail. I caught a bus last weekend and the driver had to let everyone on free because the ticket machine had failed. These things happen. And I'm pretty sure it didn't have a flat battery.

The difference is that - as with all the other examples you give but unlike a train ticket on a phone - a failure isn't a criminal offence.

 

[Watershed]

The main reason for a 'phone failing is a flat battery Given that most trains have chsrging points that shouldn't be a problem. Unless the dog eats your USB cable.

Not all trains have charging points, and more to the point - passengers shouldn't be at risk of being penalised because of failings or limitations on the part of the rail industry.

 

[Deafdoggie]

And of course they do sometimes fail. I caught a bus last weekend and the driver had to let everyone on free because the ticket machine had failed. These things happen. And I'm pretty sure it didn't have a flat battery.

Most bus ticket machines aren't mobile phone based, and most faults are paper/printer related.

 

[arb]

I think some are failing at risk assessment.

Risk assessment covers both the probability of something happening, and the consequences when it does.

Yes, my phone dies rarely, but it does happen. And it happens even when I'm not to blame by scrolling through Facebook all day

But take that small risk, and multiply it by the revenue protection consequences to me if my phone dies. That's a combination that I think is too strongly weighted against me, in favour of the railway, so I'm not prepared to accept it. The railway could fix this by giving people the benefit of the doubt, or allowing alternative methods of validating my ticket (quoting a booking code, giving a name and address, etc.) in the event that my phone does die. If, as is being suggested here, I'm just unlucky, and the population-level risk of a phone dying is so small, and it happens so infrequently, then allowing this shouldn't be a big problem to the railway, should it? For as long as I can be threatened with penalty fares and prosecution if my phone dies, I will always be nervous about relying on my phone for railway ticketing.

For a one-off occasional long-distance journey, especially one where I might want to spend a while planning it and looking at different time versus price trade-offs (major pain to do that at a ticket office!), I absolutely don't mind buying online, using an e-ticket, and printing out a backup in order to mitigate the phone-dying-risk. But I would prefer that the railway took a more reasonable approach to how it treated me if my phone died so I didn't have to make the physical backup.

For a daily commute (OK, maybe weekly since Covid), where I don't plan the journey in advance, printing out the backup every time is a big hassle. So the old-fashioned methods win, and the ticket office gets my custom. And after doing that a few times, you start to remember that a ticket office is really quite efficient for basic everyday purchases.

The train could catch fire and in escaping from the flames I could drop my wallet with my paper ticket and it burn to a cinder...

I feel that the risk of that happening is much lower than the risk of my phone dying. The consequences to me in both situations (from a revenue protection perspective) are identical. Therefore risk*consequence means that I'm happier using paper tickets than I am a phone Of course, the railway could change that balance by adjusting the consequences.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just thinking from the early days of the railway when staffed booking offices, porters, telegraph clerks, a station master (some with a top hat for special occasions), etc, were the norm, no passenger was expected to be in possession of anything but cash in order to purchase a railway ticket.

Over in recent times, the marketing departments of these new-style phone companies worked overtime in association with their advertising agencies and were so successful in convincing the population at large how life could be greatly enhanced by the use of their products that the population at large have been so successfully brainwashed by that methodology that they are now "the new believers" doing the marketing and becoming the new preaching disciples.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Over in recent times, the marketing departments of these new-style phone companies worked overtime in association with their advertising agencies and were so successful in convincing the population at large how life could be greatly enhanced by the use of their products that the population at large have been so successfully brainwashed by that methodology that they are now "the new believers" doing the marketing and becoming the new preaching disciples.

Or maybe, just maybe, we actually do get a benefit from these devices and it's nothing to do with marketing, which is more about convincing us which specific one we should buy?

Without the option to have paid for my ticket and parking on my phone (which allowed me to buy the train ticket while walking to the platform, and pay the parking* retrospectively once I'd done that) I'd have missed the train last weekend.

* Though I'd love it if LNR would go one further with their ANPR and implement a sign-up-based automatic charge, so I could register my car and be charged automatically for the period it is detected in the car park.

 

[Ken H]

Or maybe, just maybe, we actually do get a benefit from these devices and it's nothing to do with marketing, which is more about convincing us which specific one we should buy?

Without the option to have paid for my ticket and parking on my phone (which allowed me to buy the train ticket while walking to the platform, and pay the parking* retrospectively once I'd done that) I'd have missed the train last weekend.

* Though I'd love it if LNR would go one further with their ANPR and implement a sign-up-based automatic charge, so I could register my car and be charged automatically for the period it is detected in the car park.

And maybe there are some who are not beholden to the damn things. Are happy to go out without it, just some cash in their pocket. Maybe they dont want tracking into every shop they go in, every bus or train ride they make. Where I live they are unreliable because the coverage is sparse, so they assume less importance. And poor coverage really affects battery life.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Just thinking from the early days of the railway when staffed booking offices, porters, telegraph clerks, a station master (some with a top hat for special occasions), etc, were the norm, no passenger was expected to be in possession of anything but cash in order to purchase a railway ticket.

Over in recent times, the marketing departments of these new-style phone companies worked overtime in association with their advertising agencies and were so successful in convincing the population at large how life could be greatly enhanced by the use of their products that the population at large have been so successfully brainwashed by that methodology that they are now "the new believers" doing the marketing and becoming the new preaching disciples.

You missed the man with the flag walking in front of the train.

 

[AdamWW]

Most bus ticket machines aren't mobile phone based, and most faults are paper/printer related.

Not in this case. Completely dead - screen not responding, wouldn't recognize contactless cards or bar codes (and also stopped providing realtime location information). But the point is that electonic devices - whether a phone, ticket machine or anything else - do sometimes die and often completely unpredictably.

Risk assessment covers both the probability of something happening, and the consequences when it does.

Yes, my phone dies rarely, but it does happen. And it happens even when I'm not to blame by scrolling through Facebook all day

But take that small risk, and multiply it by the revenue protection consequences to me if my phone dies. That's a combination that I think is too strongly weighted against me, in favour of the railway,

That's my view. I don't think - even if unlikely - it should be a criminal offence to find that your phone won't turn on. If the risk was just having to buy a new ticket and at "station" prices (i.e. off peak tickets if valid at the time, not automatically an Anytime fare) then that would change the balance somewhat.

I suppose if you have the ticket emailed to a webmail account there is the option of finding someone helpful on the train who will let you log into your email and show it.

If, as is being suggested here, I'm just unlucky, and the population-level risk of a phone dying is so small, and it happens so infrequently, then allowing this shouldn't be a big problem to the railway, should it? For as long as I can be threatened with penalty fares and prosecution if my phone dies, I will always be nervous about relying on my phone for railway ticketing.

I think the problem here is that while the risk of a phone dying is small, if you make it too easy to get away with it you will find a lot of people with mysterously dead phones.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You missed the man with the flag walking in front of the train.

Not part of the station staff as such, like the "policeman" in his signalling box, but you have really cheered me up with your comment.....

 

[nlogax]

There is a long future for ticket offices. They won't be disappearing until mobile technology and app capability is robust enough to deal with every single ticket scenario and our train-travelling population is pretty much completely a generation of those who are au fait and comfortable with using it. Genuinely don't see that happening for another twenty to thirty years.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Just thinking from the early days of the railway when staffed booking offices, porters, telegraph clerks, a station master (some with a top hat for special occasions), etc, were the norm, no passenger was expected to be in possession of anything but cash in order to purchase a railway ticket.

Over in recent times, the marketing departments of these new-style phone companies worked overtime in association with their advertising agencies and were so successful in convincing the population at large how life could be greatly enhanced by the use of their products that the population at large have been so successfully brainwashed by that methodology that they are now "the new believers" doing the marketing and becoming the new preaching disciples.

So we must never change a thing?

Not in this case. Completely dead - screen not responding, wouldn't recognize contactless cards or bar codes (and also stopped providing realtime location information). But the point is that electonic devices - whether a phone, ticket machine or anything else - do sometimes die and often completely unpredictably.

Some electronic devices do fail. There's a street light near me that rarely works. However, the discussion is mobile phones, not electronics in general. A mobile phone dying without notice is incredibly rare (excepting, of course, forum members) bus ticket machines are a different beast.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So we must never change a thing?

Some electronic devices do fail. There's a street light near me that rarely works. However, the discussion is mobile phones, not electronics in general. A mobile phone dying without notice is incredibly rare (excepting, of course, forum members) bus ticket machines are a different beast.

So answer me this. What is the annual cost involved in the purchase/lease of a smart phone plus the associated monthly package use costs that is not borne by someone just turning up at a booking office to book rail travel tickets in the good old-fashioned way?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So answer me this. What is the annual cost involved in the purchase/lease of a smart phone plus the associated monthly package use costs that is not borne by someone just turning up at a booking office to book rail travel tickets in the good old-fashioned way?

I think you're rather missing the point. A smartphone is useful for lots of things, not least the "phone" bit. Why would you ascribe the entire cost of one to buying train tickets?

 

[Deafdoggie]

So answer me this. What is the annual cost involved in the purchase/lease of a smart phone plus the associated monthly package use costs that is not borne by someone just turning up at a booking office to book rail travel tickets in the good old-fashioned way?

How long is a piece of string? There are a lot of phones out there. Assuming you don't have one and therefore won't use it all that much then you get one for under £40, it'll last years so the cost per year would be minimal. You can charge it for free on most trains and If you just used free public WiFi there is no need for any other cost. So it's probably cheaper than making special trips to a station to buy tickets, certainly it is if you value your time and put a cost on that. But if you get free bus travel and only go to the station when you're going anyway then that would just very marginally be cheaper. But that quite a niche minority.

I think you're rather missing the point. A smartphone is useful for lots of things, not least the "phone" bit. Why would you ascribe the entire cost of one to buying train tickets?

But also this!

 

[bspahh]

There is a long future for ticket offices. They won't be disappearing until mobile technology and app capability is robust enough to deal with every single ticket scenario and our train-travelling population is pretty much completely a generation of those who are au fait and comfortable with using it. Genuinely don't see that happening for another twenty to thirty years.

There is a long future for a humans selling tickets. I don't think ticket office counters will last so long.

I usually order tickets online. That means I can have both an electronic ticket and a paper one. The combination is better than either on their own.

I recently lost an orange credit card ticket as I got off a train in London. I noticed when I was one stop down the line, and was able to turn back and find it again. When I fly, I usually have both a paper and electronic boarding card. A few years ago, I had a trip where I was only able to have an electronic boarding pass. I had a tight connection, and dropped my phone, so the battery fell out. Luckily, that was just after I had scanned the boarding card. Otherwise I would have had to wait for it to reboot.

I have had issues for three of the last four times I have used a ticket office. Once I was told that I needed a peak ticket for CIV protection even though I was travelling on a weekend. Another time I was told that they didn't do CIV tickets for Eurostar (also wrong), and another took 5 minutes to find the Ffestiniog Round Robin ticket on their system, which could have been a hassle if I had been in a hurry.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think you're rather missing the point. A smartphone is useful for lots of things, not least the "phone" bit. Why would you ascribe the entire cost of one to buying train tickets?

Because is it not the case that this particular thread is specifically concerning ticket purchases at booking offices?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because is it not the case that this particular thread is specifically concerning ticket purchases at booking offices?

That's a bit like if I'm on a thread discussing the local chippy suggesting that if I normally drive there I should put the entire cost of running my car on a bag of chips.

 

[sor]

Because is it not the case that this particular thread is specifically concerning ticket purchases at booking offices?

Which you will still be able to do with a machine. Do you think they are removing all ticket purchase facilities from all stations and expecting everyone to use a smartphone to travel? Do you think e-tickets must be used on a smartphone?

Unless you have a 26-30 railcard there is nothing about rail travel that ties itself to a smartphone. They're still useful tools for other things, and that's why so many people have them, even if you can't comprehend it (I assume this is why you keep asking why we are wasting money on them!)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Which you will still be able to do with a machine. Do you think they are removing all ticket purchase facilities from all stations and expecting everyone to use a smartphone to travel? Do you think e-tickets must be used on a smartphone?

Perhaps I had noticed the number of postings made upon this thread that specifically made mention of the use of smartphones.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Perhaps I had noticed the number of postings made upon this thread that specifically made mention of the use of smartphones.

Because it's faster & easier. But it's not compulsory. People use them for convenience. But they use them for other things too. When you're out & about and see people on their phone, they aren't all buying rail tickets

 

[Runningaround]

There is a long future for ticket offices. They won't be disappearing until mobile technology and app capability is robust enough to deal with every single ticket scenario and our train-travelling population is pretty much completely a generation of those who are au fait and comfortable with using it. Genuinely don't see that happening for another twenty to thirty years.

It's more than evident on this thread that websites are far more capable of selling a whole range of tickets than the clerk at the counter, websites don't alternate their decisions based on training or what they understand at the time you buy the ticket either.
I don't feel confident visiting a ticket office with 10 minutes too go and find I've had the misfortune and get the clerk having a bad day.
Websites don't pop out for a fag while your queueing, don't need the loo or decide 15:55 is too close to the 16:00 closing time to serve you.
And a webpage will show what's on offer while you just have to trust and hope the ticket clerk is selling you the best and cheapest fare if they are lazy they just pick out the first thing they see.

I learnt along time ago that what the person sells can be a lot dearer than what you can find for yourself off technology. Such as Package holidays sold by travel agents in town, you'd invariably discover that someone in the next room paid half what you did either by doing their own research and buying online or by using teletext.

 

[Runningaround]

Not part of the station staff as such, like the "policeman" in his signalling box, but you have really cheered me up with your comment.....

Can I ask what are you using to post these comments? Did you find registering to the forum difficult? It's just as easy to buy a ticket online. It's easier than queueing at a ticket office and explaining a split to a ticket clerk at 5:30 in the morning.

 

[skyhigh]

So answer me this. What is the annual cost involved in the purchase/lease of a smart phone plus the associated monthly package use costs that is not borne by someone just turning up at a booking office to book rail travel tickets in the good old-fashioned way?

Nil.

Because I'd still have a smartphone even if I couldn't have rail tickets on it, therefore the cost to me of using it to buy tickets is nil.

Whereas if I went to the station to buy my tickets in advance of travel, it would cost me in fuel and wear and tear on the car. It would cost me in terms of 'time', even if I just turned up a bit early on the day in case of queues.

 

[AM9]

Nil.

Because I'd still have a smartphone even if I couldn't have rail tickets on it, therefore the cost to me of using it to buy tickets is nil.

Whereas if I went to the station to buy my tickets in advance of travel, it would cost me in fuel and wear and tear on the car. It would cost me in terms of 'time', even if I just turned up a bit early on the day in case of queues.

You haven't answered the question, - it doesn't matter how many other useful things that you might use a smartphone for, it still has a cost. The costs associated with a car are also a strawman argument, @Xenophon PCDGS might walk to the station.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Nil. Because I'd still have a smartphone even if I couldn't have rail tickets on it, therefore the cost to me of using it to buy tickets is nil.

Whereas if I went to the station to buy my tickets in advance of travel, it would cost me in fuel and wear and tear on the car. It would cost me in terms of 'time', even if I just turned up a bit early on the day in case of queues.

I do suppose that having a smartphone does seem to cover a veritable myriad of uses, but what is the annual cost incurred of an average smartphone and an associated usage package?

 

[AM9]

A sensible answer. I do suppose that having a smartphone does seem to cover a veritable myriad of uses, but what is the annual cost incurred of an average smartphone and an associated usage package?

Let me help. I pay £8 per month for a 3GB data package, unlimited calls and unlimited texts. The phone, a mid range one cost about £230 two years ago.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Because it's faster & easier. But it's not compulsory. People use them for convenience. But they use them for other things too. When you're out & about and see people on their phone, they aren't all buying rail tickets

What you mean is that some people find that faster and easier. If there are people whose views/experiences are different from yours, please accept that and don't deny the reality of their experience. There are many different judgements/values/backgrounds/abilities/preferences involved here. If someone comes to a different conclusion, they're not "wrong" and needing to be told they're misguided or stupid of don't understand; they've just come to a different conclusion, which is as valid for them as your conclusion is for you.

 

[AdamWW]

It's more than evident on this thread that websites are far more capable of selling a whole range of tickets than the clerk at the counter, websites don't alternate their decisions based on training or what they understand at the time you buy the ticket either.
I don't feel confident visiting a ticket office with 10 minutes too go and find I've had the misfortune and get the clerk having a bad day.
Websites don't pop out for a fag while your queueing, don't need the loo or decide 15:55 is too close to the 16:00 closing time to serve you.
And a webpage will show what's on offer while you just have to trust and hope the ticket clerk is selling you the best and cheapest fare if they are lazy they just pick out the first thing they see.

All true.

And wouldn't it be nice if you could buy the full range of available tickets online?