Why is Fenchurch Street numbered "backwards" and other examples

[SynthD]

As Big Jumpy says for Fenchurch St, the terminus stations are numbered from oldest to newest. If the station is expected to expand westwards, the numbers start on the east side. Did any end stations have wrong expectations and expand beyond platform 1?

 

[SuspectUsual]

Manchester Victoria is numbered right to left as you stand at the platforms 1 & 2 buffers

EDIT - and I think Holyhead is too (long time since I've been there)

 

[Future]

Some theories include Platform '1' always being the main platform for London trains (many commuter stations), or starting at the Station building and working out (York), numbering clockwise (Cambridge), or numbering left-to-right from the station entrance when transverse (Crewe)

A notable exception to this is all stations between Ivybridge and Exeter St Thomas on the SDML as well as the Riviera Line (bar Newton Abbot, as that has 3 platforms), with P2 serving UP trains and P1 with DOWN trains. Plymouth clearly couldn’t be bothered with a platform 1 or 2

 

[PeterC]

This has got me wondering about Liverpool Street. Was it always numbered with the suburban platforms lowest or was it renumbered when the East Side was built?

On the GEML Romford must have renumbered in the past as the ex LTSR station is platform 1 and the Up Main is 2.

 

[py_megapixel]

For the German termini that I’m familiar with, Munich Hbf, Stuttgart, Leipzig, Frankfurt (Main), Hamburg-Altona and Westerland are all lowest-number-on-the-left-when-looking-away-from-the-concourse, but Oberstdorf & Lindau are the other way round. On my local line (Berlin-Dessau), the "up" tracks (towards Berlin) are generally the higher-numbered ones, even though that’s mostly also the side where the station building is.

Of course Frankfurt(Main) Hauptbahnhof also has platforms 101-104 which I believe are below street level and serve the S-Bahn.

 

[Ted633]

Haywards Heath is numbered the wrong way round, with platforms 1 & 2 for Brighton and 3 & 4 for London. Confused me a bit when I ended up there after missing my stop a while ago!

 

[zwk500]

Haywards Heath is numbered the wrong way round, with platforms 1 & 2 for Brighton and 3 & 4 for London. Confused me a bit when I ended up there after missing my stop a while ago!

Depends on how you view it - the only entrance is on the down side, so as you come into the station you walk past 1/2 and then reach 3/4. It would be more confusing to have the numbers in reverse order from the ticket hall. (It's yet another example of my 'station house' theory).

 

[plugwash]

numbering clockwise (Cambridge)

Cambridge is not clockwise, it's east to west across the south end of the old station, then east to west again across the north end of the old station, then finally the new platforms to the east of the station.

 

[zwk500]

Cambridge is not clockwise, it's east to west across the south end of the old station, then east to west again across the north end of the old station, then finally the new platforms to the east of the station.

Good point, been a long time since I looked at Cambridge! Edinburgh then.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

got me wondering about Liverpool Street. Was it always numbered with the suburban platforms lowest or was it renumbered when the East Side was built?

I think Liverpool Street was always platform 1 on the West (Broad Street) side, rising to 9 & 10, the 'Main Line' platforms. Often various termini roads were referred to on early plans by their purpose, ie: Suburban, Main Line, arrival, departure etc. The 1894 Eastern side of Liverpool Street when built became platforms 11 to 18, and I believe plans showed platform numbers from the off.

 

[norbitonflyer]

As Big Jumpy says for Fenchurch St, the terminus stations are numbered from oldest to newest. If the station is expected to expand westwards, the numbers start on the east side. Did any end stations have wrong expectations and expand beyond platform 1?

As mentioned on another thread, Kings Cross was originally numbered left (departure side) to right (arrivals side), with the later suburban platforms given their own numbers. Later the arrivals side platforms were renumbered 1-4 from east to west, duplicating departures platforms 1 and 2 which were only renumbered later, along with the suburban side.

Anothger quirk was Clapham Junction, where the platforms have always been numbered consecutively from north to south, but LSWR practice at thge time was to number complete platforms (both faces having the same number), but the LBSCR gave each face its own number

 

[ah-media]

Rugby is right to left (1 & 2 being down - 4/5/6 are up)

Hemel Hempstead is also right to left (Platform 1 which is Fast Down is furthest from the barriers)

 

[zwk500]

Rugby is right to left (1 & 2 being down - 4/5/6 are up)

Hemel Hempstead is also right to left (Platform 1 which is Fast Down is furthest from the barriers)

Rugby's main entrance is on the Down Side, but yes Hemel appears to be the 'wrong' way round either way.

 

[sjm77]

enerally, if you're standing at a *Terminus* facing the platforms from the concourse platform 1 is on your left and the highest numbered platform is on your right

OK so I think we have proved that this is not a convention at all.
Sorry!

 

[zwk500]

OK so I think we have proved that this is not a convention at all.
Sorry!

Because I'm incredibly sad I had a little look, and of 80 terminal stations that have more than 1 platform, 48 were numbered left-to-right and 32 were numbered right-to-left when standing at the buffers looking towards the line. Kyle of Lochalsh I put in the right-to-left category despite actually being 'normal', because the entrance is from a road bridge that faces the sea. That's a 60%/40% split.
It was by no means exhaustive, but covered all London terminals, all Scottish terminals, Holyhead, Swansea, Manchester (Picc and Airport), Liverpool LS, Scarborough, Cleethorpes, Norwich, Brighton, Eastbourne, Portsmouth, Weymouth and Penzance.

 

[High Dyke]

Apologies if this is off topic. Skegness is numbered from right to left.

 

[Trog]

I think the problem here is that each pre-grouping company and its constituents had their own convention, or in some cases probably just stuck up numbers starting from where they were standing when some one asked what the platform numbers should be. So older stations on the same line may be numbered to different conventions than the more recently built or renumbered. Also we are talking about the railways of Britain here even if their had been a set national standard from day one, there would still be exceptions all over the place.

 

[Kingston Dan]

Signalling/operating notices are the most convenient and reliable source of information for researching platform number changes. In most instances, platform numbers will have been changed in conjunction with an alteration to the signalling, all of which will be described in detail. Even if no signalling alterations took place, any changes to platform numbers should still be advised in the notices. Here's an example describing alterations to the platform numbering at Edinburgh Waverley on 4th May 1936:

View attachment 125270

That's exactly how Waverley remained numbered until the renumbering in the naughties.

 

[YorksLad12]

Depends which way you're facing with Leeds, as it isn't entirely a terminus.

Leeds Wellington was right-to-left; Leeds New was built alongside and the combined Leeds City continued the numbering scheme. So I don't think you can count Leeds, but you could have counted Leeds Wellington...

 

[Dr_Paul]

Richmond and Kingston up platforms are numbered 2 and 3 respectively. Both stations have been extensively rebuilt. Here's a guess why their numbering is anomalous.

Richmond's platform 1 is the down through Windsor line, platform 2 is the up through, and platforms 3 to 6 are terminal ones for the NLL and District Line. This may have something to do with the way that the station evolved, starting with two platforms for the Windsor lines, and adding the 'new station' with its four platforms. It's possible that originally the up LSWR platform was no 1 and the down no 2 and this was reversed when the 'new station' was built so that the through lines remained as 1 and 2.

Kingston has platform 3 as the up, 2 as the down, and 1 as a down-facing bay. However, when first built, it was a terminal station facing towards Hampton Wick (that is, the long way around the future Kingston Loop), perhaps numbered from the left-hand (south) side looking from the buffers; additional through platforms were built on the right-hand (north) side when the line was built eastwards to New Malden and the loop created; and when the station was rebuilt in the 1930s perhaps the old numbering system was continued for the three platforms.

 

[greyman42]

Newcastle is a bit of a strange one.

 

[chiltern trev]

Liverpool Exchange was - platform 1 was rightmost with the Southport platforms having the highest number and being leftmost.

Southport Chapel Street - platform 1 on the right and the highest are on the left

 

[norbitonflyer]

Richmond and Kingston up platforms are numbered 2 and 3 respectively. Both stations have been extensively rebuilt. Here's a guess why their numbering is anomalous.


Kingston has platform 3 as the up, 2 as the down, and 1 as a down-facing bay. However, when first built, it was a terminal station facing towards Hampton Wick (that is, the long way around the future Kingston Loop), perhaps numbered from the left-hand (south) side looking from the buffers; additional through platforms were built on the right-hand (north) side when the line was built eastwards to New Malden and the loop created; and when the station was rebuilt in the 1930s perhaps the old numbering system was continued for the three platforms.

Kingston is back to front in other ways as well, with only the most basic facilities on platform 3, which what has been the London-bound platform since 1869, despite the rebuilding in the 1930s. The toilets, the staff offices, and the larger waiting room (for many years the only one) are all on the down platform 2.

 

[swt_passenger]

Newcastle is a bit of a strange one.

There’s not really any other obvious way of numbering given where the entrance is. It started out as mostly back to back bay platforms, the current 3 and 4 came later. So 1 on the far left on entry probably made a lot of sense before the Metro and electrification changes. Effectively before the King Edward bridge was built the east end was mainly a fairly conventional terminus with platforms numbered left to right?

 

[mgs315]

Sorry for the bump but one that springs to mind for me is New Cross Gate, the up side is Platform 5, down is Platforms 1/2 and the rest in between. Totally at odds with everything country of it (though works in conjunction with London Bridge).

I’m guessing that’s due to some legacy from the ELL?

 

[Taunton]

Canning Town is a numbering shambles, very conveniently for interchange the main DLR island is on top of the Jubilee Line island, while there are separate DLR platforms in an effective annexe opened later, to access which you have to go right down to basement level, find various passages, and come back up again.

Despite this, it is the annexe which is numbered 1,2, the upper level DLR 3,4, and the Jubilee Line, nearest to the entrance, is 5,6. Furthermore this numbering is used on the couple (only) of screens around the place, with no indication at those screens of where the platforms actually are, you then have to seek out separate signs for that. And still no indication that one DLR is right here, and the other several minutes (and it is, via three escalators/sets of steps) walk away.

 

[D365]

I am not aware that it is actually a convention though.

The only tradition/convention regarding platform numbering I'm aware of is that 1 is generally the UP (towards London platform), so it would make sense that on some lines the higher numbered platforms would be on the down (left) side and the lower numbers on the up (right) and that may simply continue into the terminus.

Agree on both points

A good example on the ECML where this pattern is broken is St Neots (the London-bound platform is numbered 4 while the northbound is 1)

St Neots is on the northbound side of the station, so this makes sense. (Loves Farm came much, much later)