Why is Thameslink so terrible?

[Nicholas Lewis]

Must admit I hadn’t appreciated KX - Hitchin wires were done separately to the rest of the ECML. Unless you mean it was upgraded for theoretical 140mph running by 91s (which I think was only achieved in testing due to signal sighting concerns)?

140mph running was only going to be over limited sections North of Peterborough i believe.

KX to Hitchin was wired as part of GN outer suburban electrification in 1978 and the 312's were only 100mph. It was Mk3a so im surmising it must have needed some works to allow higher speed running but not sure what.

 

[43066]

KX to Hitchin was wired as part of GN outer suburban electrification in 1978 and the 312's were only 100mph. It was Mk3a so im surmising it must have needed some works to allow higher speed running but not sure what.

Thanks - excellent knowledge!

 

[Bald Rick]

Must admit I hadn’t appreciated KX - Hitchin wires were done separately to the rest of the ECML. Unless you mean it was upgraded for theoretical 140mph running by 91s (which I think was only achieved in testing due to signal sighting concerns)?

Kings Cross - WGC and Hertford was done by 1976, north of there to Royston was 1978. It was nominally planned with future electrification of the ECML in mind; I’m reasonably sure there was no need to do anything to the OLE for the introduction of the Class 91s in 1988. As an aside there’s not much 125mph south of a Hitchin anyway.

When the electrification to Royston was finished, the teams moved a few miles to the west and did the Midland Suburban electrication, which when under construction was very definitely phase 1 of a plan to wire the MML. However sectorisation happened, the Regions lost some of their power, and the strategy swapped (correctly in my view) to do the ECML instead.

 

[allotments]

Thameslink has really impressed me with the frequent and reliable service between Slade Green - London Bridge - St Pancras - Cambridge. There have been some advertised cancellations for understandable reasons but other than that it's been absolutely faultless. Class 700s make travel with a bike easy too.

 

[Horizon22]

I’m sure, like me, you were on 319s back in the day (a wet autumn one) that crossed to the fast at Carlton Road and didn’t get above 50mph until entering Elstree tunnel.



you‘ll have to tell your friend that I don’t know, and even if I did I couldn’t possibly tell!



not necessarily at Norwood and New Cross Gate!

Or somewhere like Denmark Hill and Peckham Rye.

I think the discussion about "late" is something of a misnomer - if trains are timetabled to be slower than they theoretically could be then they are not really "late". It comes into a capacity v speed issue of course.

 

[Jozhua]

Um, do you seriously think that's how the rail network works?

"Hello, is that Network Rail?"

"Yes indeed"

"This is Thameslink"

"Ah, our most valued customer, how can we help you today?"

"Our trains keep getting delayed around Norwood Junction"

"I'm dreadfully sorry about that. We'll rebuild it right away. Should be ready next Monday"

"Oh, and we've written a new timetable ourselves which we'll send over to you which you will no doubt be able to implement immediately without any consideration for other operators or available capacity"

"Why ever would you think otherwise? We'll tell our signallers it's coming over and they'll jump to it"

Your post is essentially how the architects of rail privatisation thought the railways could work. They were wrong.

In reality how it works:

TL - "Hello is this network rail?"

NR - "Yes indeed"

TL - "Hi, this is Thameslink. Our trains keep getting delayed around Norwood junction."

NR - "I'm dreadfully sorry about that, we'll look at this in our next review of congested infrastructure"

(12 months later)

NR - "So we have reviewed our network and carefully compiled a list of junctions we need to invest in rebuilding in order to make service more resilient. Could we have some funding to allow us to do this?"

DfT - "Okay, we'll create a report listing all of these so it can be approved in the next budget."

(12 months later)

DfT - "So this is the report we have compiled of infrastructure that is needed to run existing service reliably."

HM Treasury - "Ok."

DfT - "Can we get some funding for this?"

HMT - "Sorry, you're asking for money?"

DfT - "Yes."

HMT - "For what?"

DfT - "To rebuild junctions."

HMT - "Why?"

DfT - "To make service more reliable."

HMT - "Well, this junction here is in London - correct?"

DfT - "Yes."

HMT - "Well the perception around here is that all the investment goes to London, so our focus is actually rebalancing investment on the North instead."

DfT - "Isn't that literally your fault for cancelling all the projects up there?"

HMT - "Okay, I'm off to powder my nose. Bye!"

(12 months later)

DfT - "So you know you cancelled all the investment in the North?"

HMT - "Yes."

DfT - "Well, now that money is available, could we rebuild this junction?"

HMT - "No."

DfT - "Why?"

HMT - "Well, we've just had a massive pandemic and need to repay the debt from furlough. Besides, who is using the trains anyway? Everyone will work from home now."

DfT - "Well, we expect passenger numbers to be rising again once the works are complete."

HMT - "Sorry, no can do. Maybe if you asked a year ago when we were in a better financial position. Right now we need to push TOCs for maximum repayments."

DfT - "Aren't you just going to discourage the return of passengers and undermine your stated policy aims, while slowing economic recovery?"

HMT - "Thank-you so much, I think this meeting is over now. I'm off to powder my nose."