Why is Trent Barton better than other operators?

[edwin_m]

The Skylink buses also pass the station fronts at Nottingham, Derby and Long Eaton and a short walk from Loughborough. These provide adequate connections for the relatively few people who might want to access the airport by train without the extra cost of an extra bus service, so there's little point in having an airport bus from the Parkway.

 

[Simon75]

Wellglade themselves, haven't expended since TM Travel.

 

[RustySpoons]

Alex Hornby said that branding services with names was like Cadburys chocolate bars. Almost everyone can feel off some chocolate bar names, similar with TB brands. I suppose this may apply to people who have lived all or most of lives using their buses, like me. But how do you explain the rise in passenger numbers when the fare rate rises every few months and service withdrawals!

Never understood that analogy. Cadburys chocolate bars to most people are just treats, but a bus to most people is a necessity to get around. Plus you can get different chocolate everywhere. If you want 'luxury' chocolate, you can buy it in a corner shop on a council estate or you can buy it from Waitrose in Harrogate. People don't use the 'Hotline' because it's purple and got leather seats, they use the 152 because it goes to Preston.

 

[Stan Drews]

Never understood that analogy. Cadburys chocolate bars to most people are just treats, but a bus to most people is a necessity to get around. Plus you can get different chocolate everywhere. If you want 'luxury' chocolate, you can buy it in a corner shop on a council estate or you can buy it from Waitrose in Harrogate. People don't use the 'Hotline' because it's purple and got leather seats, they use the 152 because it goes to Preston.

I think you’re missing the whole point of marketing and branding.
It isn’t aimed at people to whom the product/service is a necessity, but more about attracting people that do have a choice, to choose your product/service. Forward thinking bus operators realised some time ago that simply catering for the dwindling number of people with no other choice for travel, wasn’t a great business model.
They are looking to attract passengers to the Hotline for their journey to Preston, rather than the train, Stagecoach 59, or even the car.
Cadbury’s do much the same thing when someone goes into the corner shop to buy chocolate, with the aim that they choose one of their brands.

 

[philthetube]

TB is pretty good when things are going well, but when the proverbial wheels fall off it can be atrocious. No information is ever offered about one-off cancellations (how hard can it be to have someone in the traffic office posting on Twitter?) and even the office in Derby Bus Station isn’t staffed early or late enough to be truly effective when passengers need information or a bus service is missing without leave. I use Swift regularly and at least one of the three branded vehicles is perpetually off the road broken down, leaving the service operated in part by a clapped out generic full size bus or one of the midi-sized vehicles that is hopelessly inadequate at times when the school kids are travelling. The hourly Swift also seems like an unloved route as far as TB is concerned with no at seat power and no Wi-fi (come on TB, even Arriva Derby manage that across the fleet) and rarely runs to time during busy periods. The newish contactless system slows things down if passengers elect to both tap on and off with a credit / debit card, as the process is somewhat slower than mango. Big positives is the drivers are friendly and helpful.

I would love to know how many offices arriva have or how often they post concerning cancellations, I would love to have what you have for what we have in Watford.

 

[markymark2000]

I would love to know how many offices arriva have or how often they post concerning cancellations, I would love to have what you have for what we have in Watford.

My local Arriva area struggles to even put road closure diversion notices online, let alone any sort of bus cancellation (except in severe weather, they manage to pull themselves together to keep people informed every few hours)

 

[RustySpoons]

I think you’re missing the whole point of marketing and branding.
It isn’t aimed at people to whom the product/service is a necessity, but more about attracting people that do have a choice, to choose your product/service. Forward thinking bus operators realised some time ago that simply catering for the dwindling number of people with no other choice for travel, wasn’t a great business model.
They are looking to attract passengers to the Hotline for their journey to Preston, rather than the train, Stagecoach 59, or even the car.
Cadbury’s do much the same thing when someone goes into the corner shop to buy chocolate, with the aim that they choose one of their brands.

No, I get it, I just think you can't compare cadburys branding with the bus industry. You know what you're getting with chocolate. But if a car driver who hadn't used the bus before was taken by the Hotline/152 and decided to use it instead of the car, they'd not automatically assume that the IrwellLine, or Witch Way, or even Burnley/Blackburn Bus Co were part of the same group, as they're all in different colours with their own brands.

I personally think that a recognisable fleet livery with route branding where needed works just as well as lots of different brands. My opinion, obviously, but I do understand the reasoning behind the Transdev/Trent Barton approach.

 

[Flange Squeal]

I personally think that a recognisable fleet livery with route branding where needed works just as well as lots of different brands. My opinion, obviously, but I do understand the reasoning behind the Transdev/Trent Barton approach.

I agree with that too in certain aspects. For example you’ve managed to get your new customer to try the bus. They need to get from Suburbville to the hospital, but there’s no direct bus - they need to change in the town centre. Oh dear, that’s the red ‘Directline’ followed by the blue ‘Hospital Hopper’. Two different bus companies? Two lots of fares?

At least if the company has a base ‘house style’ with just different elements added highlighting each route’s selling points, you know straight away who runs the routes and on what services in the town you could use, say, a ‘Mytown Bus Company’ network ticket.

Somewhere like Reading use many different colours and it works, admittedly perhaps because not many other operators also venture into the town but also because they’re applied in a ‘house style’, but places that have countless individual ‘brand names‘ from one operator mixing with even more colours from different operators could come across as a bit confusing to a prospective passenger. That’s one of the things I disliked about Go North East, but it would appear the new leadership are now addressing this to an extent by retaining route identities, but designing and applying the branding to a ‘house style’.

 

[cnjb8]

I agree with that too in certain aspects. For example you’ve managed to get your new customer to try the bus. They need to get from Suburbville to the hospital, but there’s no direct bus - they need to change in the town centre. Oh dear, that’s the red ‘Directline’ followed by the blue ‘Hospital Hopper’. Two different bus companies? Two lots of fares?

At least if the company has a base ‘house style’ with just different elements added highlighting each route’s selling points, you know straight away who runs the routes and on what services in the town you could use, say, a ‘Mytown Bus Company’ network ticket.

Somewhere like Reading use many different colours and it works, admittedly perhaps because not many other operators also venture into the town but also because they’re applied in a ‘house style’, but places that have countless individual ‘brand names‘ from one operator mixing with even more colours from different operators could come across as a bit confusing to a prospective passenger. That’s one of the things I disliked about Go North East, but it would appear the new leadership are now addressing this to an extent by retaining route identities, but designing and applying the branding to a ‘house style’.

For the TrentBarton area, NCT style branding is recogniseably different to TrentBarton style branding. I dont know about Derby but most stops in Nottingham have a map of bus services by all operators

 

[edwin_m]

For the TrentBarton area, NCT style branding is recogniseably different to TrentBarton style branding. I dont know about Derby but most stops in Nottingham have a map of bus services by all operators

It's only the most frequent routes and not very clear which operator runs which route. NCT has a typical "house style" which varies in colour for different routes, but there's much less commonality in the TB brandings so the casual observer might not realise that all of them were the same company.

 

[radamfi]

I agree with that too in certain aspects. For example you’ve managed to get your new customer to try the bus. They need to get from Suburbville to the hospital, but there’s no direct bus - they need to change in the town centre. Oh dear, that’s the red ‘Directline’ followed by the blue ‘Hospital Hopper’. Two different bus companies? Two lots of fares?

At least if the company has a base ‘house style’ with just different elements added highlighting each route’s selling points, you know straight away who runs the routes and on what services in the town you could use, say, a ‘Mytown Bus Company’ network ticket.

Somewhere like Reading use many different colours and it works, admittedly perhaps because not many other operators also venture into the town but also because they’re applied in a ‘house style’, but places that have countless individual ‘brand names‘ from one operator mixing with even more colours from different operators could come across as a bit confusing to a prospective passenger. That’s one of the things I disliked about Go North East, but it would appear the new leadership are now addressing this to an extent by retaining route identities, but designing and applying the branding to a ‘house style’.

It is assumed by most British operators that passengers are only interested in direct services. They believe that it is too difficult to get people out of cars where a change of bus is involved. Therefore they sell routes not networks.

 

[NorthOxonian]

It is assumed by most British operators that passengers are only interested in direct services. They believe that it is too difficult to get people out of cars where a change of bus is involved. Therefore they sell routes not networks.

It's a lot more difficult to compete with the car in terms of time when a change of bus is involved. Unless you massively improve bus stations so they're much more comfortable places to wait, or have proper connections in the style of the Swiss Taktfahrplan, where buses are time to arrive into bus stations at xx:58, then timed to leave at xx:02.

Bringing it back to Trent Barton, they do seem to advertise their network in some circumstances. For example, if you look at their area map for (say) Mansfield, they note at Derby, Nottingham, Ilkeston where their connecting services can take you.

 

[radamfi]

It's a lot more difficult to compete with the car in terms of time when a change of bus is involved. Unless you massively improve bus stations so they're much more comfortable places to wait, or have proper connections in the style of the Swiss Taktfahrplan, where buses are time to arrive into bus stations at xx:58, then timed to leave at xx:02.

If there's one thing Britain doesn't skimp on it is bus stations. British bus stations for local buses may well be the most expensive and elaborate in the world. Places in the world where you have coordinated buses often don't even have a dedicated building for buses and may well simply use the rail station for shelter. However, Britain doesn't really use bus stations for interchange and operators make interchanging unattractive, not only by the lack of coordination but also by making it cost more to change buses compared to a through service.

So in an environment where interchange is not part of the equation, each bus route is effectively its own bus company. Hence Trent Barton style route branding may be the least worst option when that constraint is in place.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If there's one thing Britain doesn't skimp on it is bus stations. British bus stations for local buses may well be the most expensive and elaborate in the world.

Primarily in the PTE and TfL areas, yes. Elsewhere it's an on-street stop or a tumbledown 1960s building, though a few Councils have built fairly nice ones too e.g. Bedford.

 

[radamfi]

Primarily in the PTE and TfL areas, yes. Elsewhere it's an on-street stop or a tumbledown 1960s building, though a few Councils have built fairly nice ones too e.g. Bedford.

Even now in an era of extreme austerity for buses, I find it remarkable that extravagant facilities are still being opened, even in small towns. For example Rawtenstall, a town so small that most people outside the immediately local area won't have heard of it, let alone know how to say it, has just opened a £3.5 million bus station.

 

[Deerfold]

Yes but resulting traffic from M1 and 10 minute journey is not acceptable

How can the distance be unacceptable when the station was not built to serve the airport?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Even now in an era of extreme austerity for buses, I find it remarkable that extravagant facilities are still being opened, even in small towns. For example Rawtenstall, a town so small that most people outside the immediately local area won't have heard of it, let alone know how to say it, has just opened a £3.5 million bus station.

I know you have a thing about "bus palaces". However, in some instances you do have a point, and Rawtenstall is one that I mentioned a few weeks ago in the same instance. Same for Accrington - really quite excessive for a small town. It's less common in the "shires" but Lancs and Notts are ones that spring to mind. However, the worst offenders are some of our PTEs - SY at Dinnington and WY at Cleckheaton and Ossett particularly spring to mind.

It's one of the reasons why I wonder about the capability of our local authorities in running and organising bus services.

 

[Deerfold]

Indeed, AH arrived in 2010 at TB. Route branding (sans service numbers) has been a feature since the early 1990s.

I think it was a little later than then. I was catching Trent and Barton buses regularly until 1996. We had 'Rainbow' routes but on the front of the bus they were just 'R1' or R5C'. They were all red.

They were still integrating the two companies then. The ZigZag was valid on anything. However, when I got a monthly Saver ticket (I tended to alternate between having a Saver and an NCT ticket) they were only valid on Barton buses.

This led to buses in the same livery not accepting all the company's tickets, even in the same areas (though they didn't overlap much).

 

[Simon75]

Last summer caught the Arriva 84 Crewe to Chester, bus broke down at Crewe bus station, but they waited till the next 84 ' short journey ' (84 operates hourly Crewe to Chester with 3 short journeys from Crewe to Nantwich)
Arriva were verbally informative

I would love to know how many offices arriva have or how often they post concerning cancellations, I would love to have what you have for what we have in Watford.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think it was a little later than then. I was catching Trent and Barton buses regularly until 1996. We had 'Rainbow' routes but on the front of the bus they were just 'R1' or R5C'. They were all red.

They were still integrating the two companies then. The ZigZag was valid on anything. However, when I got a monthly Saver ticket (I tended to alternate between having a Saver and an NCT ticket) they were only valid on Barton buses.

Was thinking Spondon Flyer https://flic.kr/p/25fxrJ6

 

[Deerfold]

Was thinking Spondon Flyer https://flic.kr/p/25fxrJ6

When did that come in? That bus can't have been registered until late 1994, a little late for 'early 1990s'.

Admittedly, I was mostly catching Nottingham area and long distance services (I know the TransPeak service had that name for a long time but also had numbers R1 or TP).

 

[ag51ruk]

When did that come in? That bus can't have been registered until late 1994, a little late for 'early 1990s'.

Admittedly, I was mostly catching Nottingham area and long distance services (I know the TransPeak service had that name for a long time but also had numbers R1 or TP).

The original Spondon Flyer was early 95 I think, and was the first route I can remember that had no numbers (and used a coloured destination blind instead for the two routes, red and blue). They also played music on board the buses, provided by the local Our Price record shop (for people that remember those!) But the livery was still Trent Red/Cream. The Red Arrow came later the same year.

The current TB identity is quite cohesive, I think - apart from the colour, the livery is the same and they all use the same typeface and 'curved bow' on the sides in the same location with a small 'By TrentBarton' logo towards the rear. There was a time in the 2000s when the route identities were all over the place. I think the company realised that people didn't know which services they ran and have deliberately tried to do something about that, but still keeping their own identities.

 

[cnjb8]

The original Spondon Flyer was early 95 I think, and was the first route I can remember that had no numbers (and used a coloured destination blind instead for the two routes, red and blue). They also played music on board the buses, provided by the local Our Price record shop (for people that remember those!) But the livery was still Trent Red/Cream. The Red Arrow came later the same year.

The current TB identity is quite cohesive, I think - apart from the colour, the livery is the same and they all use the same typeface and 'curved bow' on the sides in the same location with a small 'By TrentBarton' logo towards the rear. There was a time in the 2000s when the route identities were all over the place. I think the company realised that people didn't know which services they ran and have deliberately tried to do something about that, but still keeping their own identities.

Theres an article on their news section about ‘Londons buses finally catch up with Derby’ when TfL started branding some of their services. It goes through the history of why they branded Spondon Flyer and its benefits.

 

[ag51ruk]

Theres an article on their news section about ‘Londons buses finally catch up with Derby’ when TfL started branding some of their services. It goes through the history of why they branded Spondon Flyer and its benefits.

There is - and going back to the earlier discussion about route names vs numbers, there is an interesting quote about who many non bus-users remembered the new name

"Jordan Kemp, marketing & communications manager at trentbarton, said: “spondon flyer really redefined local bus services. After listening to our customers, we pulled out the stops, literally, to make spondon flyer a fast, comfy and friendly alternative to the car.

We had no idea how customers would respond to this innovation, but the ‘after’ research was impressive. When we asked 200 non-bus users about their local bus, every one of them could recall the new name.”

https://trentbarton.co.uk/news-and-media/our-news/article/brandedbusroutes2017

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am a great fan of "network benefits" but when you're talking connecting village X with its nearest large town there isn't much of a network benefit - everyone is just heading into town. And that's the style of TB's operation.

 

[Deerfold]

I am a great fan of "network benefits" but when you're talking connecting village X with its nearest large town there isn't much of a network benefit - everyone is just heading into town. And that's the style of TB's operation.

I don't know about anyone else, but not all my friends live in the centre of town.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't know about anyone else, but not all my friends live in the centre of town.

But in that case you're connecting onto an NCT bus for the network benefit in most cases. At least the Trent bit is primarily a regional operator (Barton being more local services in Loughborough).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

When did that come in? That bus can't have been registered until late 1994, a little late for 'early 1990s'.

Admittedly, I was mostly catching Nottingham area and long distance services (I know the TransPeak service had that name for a long time but also had numbers R1 or TP).

I couldn't recall exactly but was thinking L or M reg (and it was at least the first half of the 90s) being late 94 apparently. Knew it was definitely earlier than 1996.

There is - and going back to the earlier discussion about route names vs numbers, there is an interesting quote about who many non bus-users remembered the new name

"Jordan Kemp, marketing & communications manager at trentbarton, said: “spondon flyer really redefined local bus services. After listening to our customers, we pulled out the stops, literally, to make spondon flyer a fast, comfy and friendly alternative to the car.

We had no idea how customers would respond to this innovation, but the ‘after’ research was impressive. When we asked 200 non-bus users about their local bus, every one of them could recall the new name.”

https://trentbarton.co.uk/news-and-media/our-news/article/brandedbusroutes2017

Got to remember that TB has been a real leader in how they have marketed their operations

 

[Deerfold]

But in that case you're connecting onto an NCT bus for the network benefit in most cases. At least the Trent bit is primarily a regional operator (Barton being more local services in Loughborough).

Barton run plenty of local services in Nottingham (as you said, connecting village X to town). Perhaps slightly further out than the average NCT service.

 

[Volvodart]

From 16 February 2020, Stagecoach get full control of pronto.

https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/news-and-media/our-news/article/pronto2020

From Sunday 16 February we will be passing full control of pronto to our operating partner, Stagecoach.

Here's what you need to know:

• no changes to pronto's frequency
• mango will no longer be accepted
• all Stagecoach products, such as megarider will still be accepted.

With Stagecoach in full control of pronto they will be free to decide how to develop and invest in the service, as they see fit.

We'd like to thank all of our customers who travelled with us on pronto over the years.

For more details about pronto from Sunday 16 February, you can reach Stagecoach on:

• 03456050605
• [email protected]
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