Why there are less cycle space on British trains compare to European ones?

[ashkeba]

Maybe it's different on Chiltern's turbostars, but in general I find turbostar bicycle provision to be awful. I always feel like my bike is blocking the aisle, or the toilet door, or the wheelchair space. And there's no obvious way to actually secure a bike, leaving it free to move around or fall over.

Greater Anglia ones used to have rails and straps for 4 bikes, but only 4 were allowed on (unless you got one of the friendly guards), you were not allowed to move between the unused door bays, it was a tight fit and I think still only 4 on any train length. I have glad they are gone and we have the 755 Flirt now.

XC's battered Turbostars take only 3 bikes, even worse.

 

[Mark J]

I've started taking my bike on the train at weekends for services to London and to the west. What an utter nightmare it is.

I thought we now live in this era of 'green living', so why is taking a bike on a train so damn difficult and stressful?

One Saturday I booked a space, only to find i couldn't get it on the five carriage GWR service to Hereford as passengers were standing in the cycle area in the vestibule. So I had to then go back up in the lift with the bike, back over the footbridge, down the lift, barter my way back through the ticket gates, back to the ticket office and stand in the long queue to book a spot on the next available train.

Luckily the next train was a XC service, for which I was easily able to get the bike on. The XC provision seems better for cycles, especially as they've now resorted to 'doubling up' train sets.

For other journeys I've resorted to using the slower GWR stoppers services, or the TFL Rail services which don't require a booking.

I've also noticed on GWR 800's that the bicycle hooks you are supposed to put a wheel through are useless. The hooks seem OK for bikes with skinnier tyres but are no good for Hybrid, or mountain bikes, as the gap isn't wide enough to be able to get your wheel through with the thicker tyres. You are then forced to have your bicycle horizontally for the journey.

Could someone also advise what the policy is, if for example you have a bicycle but the train you intend to catch is cancelled for whatever reason and a replacement bus is laid on instead. Obviously you can't take a standard bike on the replacement bus and you can't leave your bike behind, miles away from home.

 

[Horizon22]

I've started taking my bike on the train at weekends for services to London and to the west. What an utter nightmare it is.

I thought we now live in this era of 'green living', so why is taking a bike on a train so damn difficult and stressful?

One Saturday I booked a space, only to find i couldn't get it on the five carriage GWR service to Hereford as passengers were standing in the cycle area in the vestibule. So I had to then go back up in the lift with the bike, back over the footbridge, down the lift, barter my way back through the ticket gates, back to the ticket office and stand in the long queue to book a spot on the next available train.

Luckily the next train was a XC service, for which I was easily able to get the bike on. The XC provision seems better for cycles, especially as they've now resorted to 'doubling up' train sets.

I think your issue there is that there was likely some overcrowding or disruption that impacted the whole situation. In that scenario, passengers will crowd around wherever and that obviously causes serious issues for anyone with a bike or anything bulky (pushchair, wheelchair). If your GWR train was a 9 or 10-car (not they often run in those lengths to Hereford / Worcester) you might have had more luck but that's obviously not in your control nor would you know

Reserving a space and not being able to access it through no fault of your own or the passengers or even to some extent GWR (let's say it was a booked 5-car with no disruption but just very heavily loaded). Not sure what the solution would be except trying to be insistent.

 

[Techniquest]

I'd have been fuming if that had happened to me, fair play to you for having the determination for going to sort out a space on another train. I won't go into the farce I had with taking my bike on my first ever LNER journey, I detailed it enough in my trip report in September.

I agree the IET bike space hooks are awful for mountain bikes, I have a hybrid/touring bike which I can get up onto the hooks but it isn't easy. More than a few scratches on the wheel from where it's scraped the metal hook! It's a challenge getting the bike up there, and getting it back off again is another challenge all on its own!

 

[al78]

I've started taking my bike on the train at weekends for services to London and to the west. What an utter nightmare it is.

I thought we now live in this era of 'green living', so why is taking a bike on a train so damn difficult and stressful?

Because much of it is greenwash and so-called "green" measures are selectively chosen that authorities don't have to do or spend much. Same as most cycle lanes are useless at best or dangerous at worst, and exist so some pen pusher in the local authority can tick a box to claim they have X miles of cycle facilities, and it costs little to paint a white line along the side of the road or on the pavement.

 

[Techniquest]

Even less to maintain said white line, or indeed any other markings! Some cycle lanes are so poorly maintained it should be criminal!

 

[Mark J]

I'd have been fuming if that had happened to me, fair play to you for having the determination for going to sort out a space on another train. I won't go into the farce I had with taking my bike on my first ever LNER journey, I detailed it enough in my trip report in September.

I agree the IET bike space hooks are awful for mountain bikes, I have a hybrid/touring bike which I can get up onto the hooks but it isn't easy. More than a few scratches on the wheel from where it's scraped the metal hook! It's a challenge getting the bike up there, and getting it back off again is another challenge all on its own!

It was hassle, the other option was to take two slower (non bookable) trains - taking around an hour.

I didn't have much option other to rebook, as the previous week I was refused to take my bike on board a Class 800 as I hadn't booked in advance, even though there was space on board and no one standing in the cycle area.

Luckily the next train to where I was going to was an XC service. The provision for cycles on XC seems generally much better, with hooks that are wide enough to actually allow me to hook one of the wheels in and stand my bike vertically.

Although one person did try to stand in the cycle area, for which I politely pointed out i wanted to get my bike in that space!

I see that Scotrail is now introducing cycle carriages. If only others would follow..

 

[Techniquest]

I haven't yet tried using the space on XC trains, I've noted your positive review of them and I fully expect to make use of them in the early part of 2022. I'm not planning to go out touring on the bike too much until then, I might manage a couple of short rides here and there on days off but it's not too likely!

 

[hkstudent]

Yeah, making days out with cycling, or longer bike packing trips would not be really feasible on the railway, in comparison to continental Europe. That's a shame, it's like pushing people to cars than retaining them.

 

[ashkeba]

Yeah, making days out with cycling, or longer bike packing trips would not be really feasible on the railway, in comparison to continental Europe. That's a shame, it's like pushing people to cars than retaining them.

It is feasible. It just isn't easy. Many do it but there're is always a feeling that it is done despite the railway company's, rather than due to their support.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yeah, making days out with cycling, or longer bike packing trips would not be really feasible on the railway, in comparison to continental Europe. That's a shame, it's like pushing people to cars than retaining them.

I've not had a problem doing either alone. The thing is that these are often group activities, and with only two bikes carried on most trains that renders them difficult in that form.

 

[Techniquest]

I've not had a problem doing either alone. The thing is that these are often group activities, and with only two bikes carried on most trains that renders them difficult in that form.

Generally, I have no issue with taking a bike on trains for days out or indeed on longer adventures. Quite, I've had two such adventures in September and October this year alone, and I had one in October 2020. Days out, I do semi-regularly even if that's just a few hours touring the home county and using trains to position myself to an area of coverage needs.

I'm a bit odd though in that I don't particularly enjoy riding with others!

 

[dazzler]

I'm a bit odd though in that I don't particularly enjoy riding with others!

Not that odd, I'd rather go out on the bike on my own, although I do occasionally go out with the club if they are heading somewhere nice.

I do use the trains a fair bit in grasstrack season, I tend to get the train from York to Crossgates around teatime and come back from Leeds later in the evening. It's a bit of a drag riding to Leeds and back with all the gear I need to commissaire the racing: two clipboards, British Cycling Technical Regulations, race record sheets, levy forms, etc. as well as commissaire polo shirt, fleece and waterproof.

 

[thenorthern]

You have to remember as well that many British trains are overcrowded and allowing more bikes on takes up space for seating.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You have to remember as well that many British trains are overcrowded and allowing more bikes on takes up space for seating.

This always seems a fallacy to me, as if the train is actually overcrowded, the standing space which would otherwise be bike space is more useful than one bay of seats.

 

[Techniquest]

Not that odd, I'd rather go out on the bike on my own, although I do occasionally go out with the club if they are heading somewhere nice.

I do use the trains a fair bit in grasstrack season, I tend to get the train from York to Crossgates around teatime and come back from Leeds later in the evening. It's a bit of a drag riding to Leeds and back with all the gear I need to commissaire the racing: two clipboards, British Cycling Technical Regulations, race record sheets, levy forms, etc. as well as commissaire polo shirt, fleece and waterproof.

I could join a club, there's a number of them in Herefordshire from what I gather, but they tend to meet on weekends which is when the bulk of my work happens. Plus there's the bigger issue for me of not being as experienced, as quick and so on as they would be!

Agreed there that the amount of stuff you need to cart around would be a bit awkward by bike. Grasstrack, that's not a familiar discipline of cycling to me!

 

[dazzler]

I could join a club, there's a number of them in Herefordshire from what I gather, but they tend to meet on weekends which is when the bulk of my work happens. Plus there's the bigger issue for me of not being as experienced, as quick and so on as they would be!

Agreed there that the amount of stuff you need to cart around would be a bit awkward by bike. Grasstrack, that's not a familiar discipline of cycling to me!

I am fortunate as my local road club have rides on Tuesday and Wednesday through the year as well as the regular club rides on Saturday and Sunday.

To answer the question of grasstrack racing, I have started a Cycle Sport thread in the General Discussion sub forum, for general discussion of cycle sport, not just grasstrack!

 

[Techniquest]

I am fortunate as my local road club have rides on Tuesday and Wednesday through the year as well as the regular club rides on Saturday and Sunday.

To answer the question of grasstrack racing, I have started a Cycle Sport thread in the General Discussion sub forum, for general discussion of cycle sport, not just grasstrack!

Thanks! I'll be sure to pop onto that thread shortly. I tried to start a general thread for cycling in general, not just for discussing experiences on the road like this one, but it got locked. Hopefully yours won't be!

 

[urbophile]

You have to remember as well that many British trains are overcrowded and allowing more bikes on takes up space for seating.

I'm not a cyclist so rather intruding on this thread. But surely too many British trains are overcrowded because they are so short. Longer trains would allow more space for bikes.

 

[Techniquest]

I'm not a cyclist so rather intruding on this thread. But surely too many British trains are overcrowded because they are so short. Longer trains would allow more space for bikes.

Only if policy was to allow room for such a thing in the design. Priority is normally for maximum seats, but in this day and age of active travel and supposedly encouraging people to get more active who knows what will happen!

 

[Wolfie]

Only if policy was to allow room for such a thing in the design. Priority is normally for maximum seats, but in this day and age of active travel and supposedly encouraging people to get more active who knows what will happen!

If costs are involved in creating more provision to transport bikes then l assume that they will properly fall to cyclists.

 

[thenorthern]

I'm not a cyclist so rather intruding on this thread. But surely too many British trains are overcrowded because they are so short. Longer trains would allow more space for bikes.

Platform length is a major constraint to longer trains although that is another topic entirely.

 

[urbophile]

Platform length is a major constraint to longer trains although that is another topic entirely.

I'm sure in the 1950s trains were longer than today. A lot of stations have fenced off bits of overgrown platform.

 

[modernrail]

The hanging cupboards are a mistake. It is not only that the design is incorrect and so does not work. They are also in the wrong area of the train. It is ridiculously stressful taking a bike out of one of those things at a busy stop with lots of other people getting off and on from the same doors. Just bad design.

We obviously have a space problem on our railways. Bikes are carried in other countries without any drama. I do think there is a case for having a carriage that uses these seats some have suggested that can fold back outside peak times so you get a large area for various items, from bikes to luggage.

The other thing we could do is improve at station storage facilities. In Berlin you just take your bike on the train on your commute. Here, that is not possible and so many will need to have two bikes… one to get to the station at one end and one to get from station to workplace at the other. They will therefore need secure overnight storage.

 

[tornado]

I actually find the hooks in the Class 800s not too bad . I have a 10kg hybrid bike and once you get the hang of it, you can get hooked up in <10 seconds. Keeps your bike out of the way of, and more difficult for someone to grab it and walk off at intermediate stops. Definitely more tricky with 2 bikes in the cabinet though.

The XC hooks are worse, despite having a larger space to manouevre the bike.

 

[py_megapixel]

I actually find the hooks in the Class 800s not too bad . I have a 10kg hybrid bike and once you get the hang of it, you can get hooked up in <10 seconds. Keeps your bike out of the way of, and more difficult for someone to grab it and walk off at intermediate stops. Definitely more tricky with 2 bikes in the cabinet though.

The XC hooks are worse, despite having a larger space to manouevre the bike.

I have the opposite experience. My road bike's wheels (albeit with more hybridy tyres) are slightly too thick to fit on the GWR hooks so I have to awkwardly park the bike without hanging it or risk damaging the wheels by forcing them. The XC ones however work fine.